ASH8

Anyone with a link about the #30 car and the engine issue???

Renesis_8

It is mentioned here

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...h-rolex-debut/
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hogcar

There are several reasons why the thru bolts might break. I talked to someone on the team that night about it. The minimum it will damage is backing out and contacting the flywheel/ clutch assembly, which this did. I think it also was losing coolant.

I tried to explain that there was a simple way to prevent the bolt from backing into the flywheel and the resulting damage. You make a plate out of aluminum which acts as a barrier between the bolts and the flywheel assembly. Total cost for this might be $1.00 and a little fab work. This is rarely needed but when it is..........

dieselsdad

There are a lot of harmonic forces on these bolts. In the "old" days they used pieces of rubber hose around the bolts to dampen those forces.

ASH8

HUH???...BS..Mate..in the Old Days...did they?

Who told you this BS?

There is One Washer on each Bolt..you can even see it at the end of the pic (right side of course)..

This is the ONLY washer (which is steel with a rubber coating BTW) Mazda have used over the past 40 Years...or since 1970...

So how much further back would you like to go in the "old" days.

The current 2010 RX-8 still uses this washer first used in a 1970 12A RX-2 engine.

Would you like the Part Number... 0839-10-455

And has been used on every Rotary Since..

hogcar

Before you jump so quick and throw up the BS flag maybe you need to do a little research. Or better understand what he is talking about. He is not talking about the washer on the end...... Mate.

ASH8

Better understand..well mate..where is he talking about then???, because on THIS issue there is NOTHING else that goes with these 18 Bolts in Question..

They all screw into the Front Iron Housing....so where do you put this "rubber hose"??

Perhaps you can tell me then???

hogcar

I have neither the time nor the inclination to bring you up to speed on all of the differences between a stock build and a full race engine. You are talking about the former. He and I the latter. I also don't like your confrontational tone, you would get more information if you asked nicely. Even then most engine builders are not going to share any true secrets that they have learned over many years. Harmonics which may or may not have caused this bolt to fail is not IMHO one of those secrets. Post less read more.

ASH8

If you don't have the time to explain then don't post or talk about something that you don'k know about..

Why....Just because you have recently been to Daytona you know all about it??..is that your confidence??

I can assure you there are NO secrets when it comes to the 18 Tension Bolts that hold ANY rotary engine together, and to suggest now that a "Race" built Rotary in this area is somehow different to stock engines is frankly laughable...that there is some "secret" in torquing up 18 tension bolts ...becasue there is not.

Research "as you like to put it" is not required by me.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Ash.....come on man...pull it out

There have been rubber hose bits used on those tension bolts in aftermarket builds for years.....

hogcar

Once again you are wrong deal with it. Seems RG knows the same. You don't have a friggin clue yet you continue spouting of about how right you are. Spend less time posting and more reading. SEE BELOW

YOU WERE SAYING I'LL wait for one of these

rotarygod
Proud to be arrogant!




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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Houston
Posts: 8,523 Quote:
Originally Posted by RK
http://twitter.com/toddspeed

I assume that's they lost their e-shaft. Crazy that two (and possibly three) 8s had terminal engine failure. Usually those engines hold up a lot better and these enduros.

They broke a tension bolt. There are 16 of them that hold the engine together. Depending on which one breaks, you'll get a coolant leak. Unfortunatly since it probably broke right near the thread, it would mean a complete engine teardown to get to it as they thread into the front housing.

A tension bolt is something that should never break in a race engine. You get harmonic vibration in them as they don't fit tight against the housings and merely hold the engine together front to rear. They resonate. Mazda made some better ones for race engines that had a small rubber part on them that allowed them to contact the intermediate housing to hold down this resonance. An easier thing is to just coat them in gasket sealer before installing them which is what I do on all of my engines. If I were building a race engine though I'd use stronger studs rather than bolts. You'd never break one again. In this case, that simple issue that could have been prevented cost them an entire race.
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Renesis_8

Let's hope they make that improvement to all of the engines. It would suck if this happens to the #70 car.
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ASH8

NO there are 18

Next...

Don't agree....Mazda washers have ALWAYS had a small amount of black heat bonded rubber on these steel washers.. #0839-10-455


OH Really, well it would be a very long STUD then, which would still require a NUT on the End of the Stud....

Mazda virtually did this on Earlier Rotaries Before 1970...

NEXT...



Can't see any RUBBER HOSE HERE....

hogcar

I will try one last time to pull you out of the dark. I will even give you the part number. 4801-10-e50 for 13b 4352-10-e50 for 12a. You stated yourself that you have never seen a broken thru bolt before. Based on your other post their is a lot you haven't seen.

The rubber is bonded to the thru bolt, of course I quess I could have been just imagining it all these years.

So run along and look up the part number that you have now and you will see that you are still confused/wrong. I really do not care if you agree or not it is all the same to me.

The pebble is still firmly in my hand grasshopper

ASH8

4801-10-e50 for 13b 4352-10-e50 for 12a

Interesting..thanks..

Either of these Part Numbers do not exist , from UK, Australian or US on-line Part Catalogs, because they are for racing engines....naturally..

However, given you are sure and these Part Numbers are correct, I will have them checked by my Mazda Australia Parts Distribution contact who will search Mazda Japans on-line store..
Again I presume they are Mazda Japan/made sourced?

Where exactly is
"The rubber is bonded to the thru bolt, of course I quess I could have been just imagining it all these years."
??

So you have to replace all the 16 ( I see 18) bolts which include a Rubber Application on them in racing engines... is there another Separate Washer ??, these part numbers you supplied are for the Bolts 12A and 13B?...the 12A's being the shorter in length?.

I am always happy to learn something, I do recall Mazda's racing programs from the 1970's-80, particularly when the RX-3 were racing in Japan class MS in 1974~....with specialist engine parts.

Do you have the Part Number for the Washer??

And where does..
come into this equation for which I was originally replying to and which you originally defended.

As I am interested to know "How" this "Rubber Hose" was applied to on the 18 Tension Bolts during assembly??

Would be grateful if you could find the time to show me.

Thanks

ASH8

Found More information, and yes these competition parts up to about 1995, which have not really changed in the Renesis...

My apologies, but as I said, the use of a "rubber hose" is interesting..
As mentioned " it is easier to just coat them in gasket sealer before installing".

dieselsdad

ASH,

Is it fair to tell you to kiss my **** now Mate?

I was never talking about washers as you can see by the other posts.

Everyone learns something when they remember they have two ears and one mouth for a reason, but as the internet doesn't convey the spoken language very well I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Somewhere I have spome pictures of these "magic bolts" in use back in the early eighties I believe. If I can find them perhaps I'll share them with you.

While I may be a "youngster" by some standards my first trip to Daytona was in 1996 as a crew member for the 24 hours of Daytona. I too have been involved in building and racing cars for some time.

I come here to learn mostly. Unfortunately I usually have to read 100 posts to get some tidbit of relevant knowledge. This has been fun though................

hogcar

[QUOTE=dieselsdad;3420393]ASH,

Is it fair to tell you to kiss my **** now Mate?

QUOTE]


Me first, I don't like sloppy seconds

ASH8

To dieseldad..

As I said my comments were on looking at the Pic of the broken Tension Bolt...it clearly shows the washer (0839-10-455) I am talking about which is rubberized and has been used in production rotaries for 40 years, even to this day.

The broken Bolt shown does not appear to have any Rubberized application on the bolt thread or residue/marks of it being there (like the competition one..see pic)...so I assume it was a 'Standard' production Bolt, it also has the 0839 washer on it which is a separate part.

Well what were You talking about as I know of No 'Pieces of Rubber Hose' that You refer to I guess it is in the pic below which is heat bonded or shrinked on the middle thread.

IN all Production Rotaries there are the Separate Tension Bolts and Separate Steel/Rubber Coated Washers for the bolt heads...this is what I was originally referring to and YOUR Comment about a 'Rubber Hose' use..



Here is the "Competition Bolt" 4352 with the "rubberized" section in the middle only over the threaded section for the intermediate housing and No Head Bolt washer which is added.

hogcar

LMAO at ash.

You STILL do not have a clue. It is clear to anyone with two brain cells in the same zip code that you are clueless.

You jumped all over his post and went on to tell everyone how knowledgeable you were about thru bolt washers, etc etc. Claiming BS and telling US that "it has been the same part since blah blah blah" NO ONE is or was talking about the washers! You are clueless.

You questioned my expertice only to get the slap down when I gave you the part numbers to the bolts that you said did not exist.

Then you post pictures of said bolts and act like you are the resident expert, all the while still questioning ddad about the rubber hose application. Pure deflection. You are still clueless. I am glad I could get you up to speed on those nonexistant magic bolts that only live in fair tales, however it would take the rest of your natural born life to bring you up to speed on everything else concerning race engines because you do not listen.

People say reading is fundamental....... not without comprehension.

As both he and I have said quit being a post ***** and read more..... err comprehend. Have a nice day

dieselsdad

I won't argue anymore as it's pointless. However, to clarify everyone as to the "rubber hose" I'm talking about. If someone didn't want to purchase the race version of the tension bolts from then "mazda comp" they would build their own by putting a short piece of rubber hose over the middle of the bolt like the rubber that's bonded to the MFR part. Again, this would absorb bad harmonics. I have no idea why that particular piece failed.

I apologize for not being more forthright, obviously my inability to explain myself has created quite a mess.

EricMeyer

Can somebody in the tech. department on this forum make a "unsubscribe to a particular forum member button"?

AirlockRX

But wait Eric, have they all exchanged **** kisses???

Renesis_8

Lets be more friendly here!! its just over a bolt!!

some news guys

Speedsource is INDEED entering a 3rd car!!! #68 shows up on entry list for homestead. We might see Nick Ham driving afterall!!!
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Roll blunts

DailyDriver2k5

Cool, more RX-8's on the track.