shaunv74

Someone needed to pull a McLaren/Capone and fire/baseball bat the guy that screwed up the first time so it never happened again.

If there are no consequences there is no learning...

alfy28

lol renault just joined the threat on quiting F1 for 2010. i feel like i am in bizzaro world (dc comic)

also wtih ferrari thinking about joining the lemans series to battle against Audi and Peguout. i think FIA should take their threat very seriously. personally i dont care if ferrari leaves, but if other teams follow then F1 will die. which i dotn want to see.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

Four teams now have threated to leave F1 and not compete in the 2010 season.
http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?T...45867&PO=45867

McLaren and Williams will be the only big teams left.

bse50

The newsreader just said that mc laren is possibly staying just not to pay the debts they have with the federation.

They are killing this sport anyway. They shoudl start from scratch with a new federation since this one is only concerned about money and not about enhtusiasts

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

Sorry, but it will always be about money. We, the enthusiasts, are just the way for the business to make more money. If the fans go away, they don't make money. There are many fans that don't know or don't care about whats going on. That is, until the day there isn't a Ferrari on the grid. Then they will wonder what happened.

alfy28

yah i feel FIA should really take ferrari serious. i would guess at least 85% of F1 fans are Ferrari fans, and the rest would be the other teams.

even though i dont care for ferrari (never had) them leaving would hurt f1 tremendousy. and also if the mid pack teams such as toyota and renault do not care for the budget cap (since i think its designed to help them) then why even bother pushing the budget cap.

but these are just my thoughts .

moRotorMotor

Toyota F1 team have one of the highest budgets. It is also safe to say Renault have exceeded 40million British pounds. If the budget cap is introduced, it will allow a lot of private teams to join and bunch everyone together even more. The time slip margin will be so small that you will probably see Ferrrari (if they stay next year) at the top of the time sheet one race and near the back the next race. It will all come down to who can be the most efficient to spend the 40million pounds.

alfy28

Even though i agree with you 100% motor motor, F1 wouldnt be the same with the budget cap. i like to see other companies joining. but then i can see where teams do not like these restriction placed upon them. F1 has always been the series that they use alot of Rand D.

so with the budget cap, wuld it be F1 still? it would be more like indy racing with out having to drive a vech from one company. but that is the way i see.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

F1 is the sand box where the big boys play. If you don't have the cash, there is F2, A1GP or a host of other series that you can spend your limited funds on.
There has already been too many limitations put on the premier motorsports series.

moRotorMotor

Don't get me wrong guys, I am not in favor of this budget cap either. However, the budget gap between the top team (Ferrari) and the slowest team (Force India) is so wide, it makes it so hard to be competitive. I know F1 is suppose to be the premier venue to demonstrate the pinnacle of automotive technology, but I think there should be a ceiling. Maybe not at 40million pounds.

I only watch the BBC's coverage so I don't know if this topic was brought up on SPEED/CBS's coverage. Eddie Jordan's team in the 90's scored its first podium finish (can't remember if it was 1st) on just a 10 million pound budget. Flavio Briatore said in an interview that racing can be exciting on a low budget. I don't think these big teams can help but pour more money into it to stay ahead of the pack. It is a vicious cycle. Eventually you will end up with only a handful of teams that can afford to stay in the game. I believe the fans won't enjoy as much seeing 10 cars race around a track vs. 20+.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

But Ferrari isn't the top spending team, Toyota is. McLaren is right up there too.
When you have drivers that are making 15 mil (US) /yr., you know they have a big budget.

moRotorMotor

You are right Al, I forgot. It is funny you mention that though. Proof that you can be competitive on a smaller budget (even though when I say 'smaller', it is still over 100+million pounds) lol!

alfy28

^^ great way of putting it aln.

also i like to add, even though i would like to see more cars on the track. i do not want to see a nascar and indy numbers. those series turn me off due to the amount of cars they have. to me 20-25 cars enough, but when you have like numbers like nascar etc (btw not saying that is going to happen). the track to me is to crowded to enjoy , plus other things with track selections.

ATL-GP

I HEARD THAT!!!...and I agree. Don't get me wrong, I think privateers such as Williams, Sauber, Jordan, etc.... are/were very important to F1....especially when they really take the fight to the manufacturers...but alas, things change and quite frankly...if the FIA does go forward with this budget cap crap, I'd love to see a series with JUST the manufacturers. Moreover, if you can't produce your own chasis AND motor...then ya gotta go. I think a manufacturers series would be awesome....unlimited budgets, BRING BACK THE FREAKING V12s...but I could settle for the V10s, traction control...the whole 9....basically a series that IS the pinnacle of motorsport.

alfy28

i would like to see Taaaabbbbbooooo again

alfy28

i hope all those teams quit and save their millions. then mr max and the rest of the crazed FIA will see their profits take a deep dive. i think taht is what its going to have to take for the FIA to know they are the ones that are killing my favorite racing series, followed by the lemans.

if max and the FIA really think that they can survive with out Ferrari , they must be smoking crack. Also must be blind not seeing all those ferrari flags being waved by F1 fans.

I am not saying Ferrari makes F1, but Ferrari has the most fans in the series vs rest of the teams out there. if they would end up leaving, then there goes a huge chunk of fans willing ot pay 100+ for tickets.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/9090515....dget-cap-plans



Habitual Max Mosley critic Sir Jackie Stewart has slammed the FIA president's efforts to set a budget cap for formula one teams.

Many of the car manufacturers involved in the sport have threatened to quit at the end of this season over the issue, and their plight has found support in one of F1's most famous names.

69-year-old Stewart, who won three world championships and in the 90s ran his own team, said the FIA should leave the teams to determine the size of their budgets.

"These are private enterprise companies that are run to make profit by building cars," the Scot told the Daily Express tabloid.

"The FIA simply take money, they don't make money without the teams and yet they want to tell BMW, Ferrari, Renault, Toyota, Mercedes - these huge successful companies - how much they can afford in F1," added Stewart.

Stewart, still involved in F1 as a sponsor ambassador working closely with Williams, also dismissed fears the controversial stand-off could lead to the decimation of the sport as we know it.

"Formula one is not under threat from the teams," he insisted. "The sport is huge and it will continue no matter what. It doesn't need being told what to do."

ATL-GP

Unfortunately....unless they have another emergency meeting, this whole situation looks set to get a lot worse. If i'm not mistaken, the entry list for next season is due in like the next couple of weeks!! I think it's 5/29. So if they're going to do something, they need to do that **** lickety split, becuase there will be a pretty darn short list of entrants next year if current rules stand. And I gotta tell ya, i'm not going to be into F1 as much as I am now when you have effectively 2 series going on...hell, it will be more like a LeMan type event. WHICH by the way...should this whole situation just turn into a complete mess, I'd love to see a McLaren or Ferrari LMP1!!! You know their cars would be the absolute ****!!!

ATL-GP

OHHH, DAMN....wouldn't it be a trip if the disputing teams jumped ship to CART!! Finally, Bourdais might actually make it to Q3

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

Don't worry about having cars on the grid. There are about 4 different teams that are talking about fielding cars for next year. USGP (or what ever they are calling themselves), Lola, Lightspeed, Britannia Racing and Prodrive. There may be more. Just that would make 8 cars for the grid which would lose about 10 cars if the present teams depart. Ecclestone said that the grid could be up to 24 cars.
Mosley and the FIA don't have a lot of power to say what will happen to F1. Ecclestone makes the rules, with an agreement to them from FOTA. The FIA only sanctions the events. If the FIA doesn't get their way they can pull the sanctioning, then Ecclestone will provide his own as a series independent of the FIA. FIA's only recourse would be to pull the racing licenses of the drivers. That would prevent them from running in any FIA event outside of F1 (pretty much everything). But, how many do that?

alfy28

Ferrari has stepped up the budget cap row by applying for an injunction in the French courts against the 2010 rules.

FIA president Max Mosley, who met with the F1 teams and Bernie Ecclestone at a Heathrow hotel on Friday, revealed the news as he emerged from the meeting.

Ecclestone also emerged from the meeting, as the FOTA group headed straight back into talks.

"The teams have gone off to see if they can come up with something better than the cost cap," Mosley told reporters. "We are prepared to listen to what they have to say."

He said the meeting was "friendly", but added: "It became apparent that Ferrari have made an application to the French courts to apply for an injunction to stop us doing what we want to do."

Mosley said he had not agreed to compromise on his plans, and that he doubts Ferrari will actually quit the sport.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/9090515....-2010-f1-rules


every one here pretty much knows how much i hate ferrari, when it comes to F1. but i applaud ferrari (wow that almost made me vomit)

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

http://www.f1technical.net/news/12421

Piero Ferrari, Enzo Ferrari's son, has added weight in his teams struggle against the FIA's budget cap system. Ferrari along with Renault, Red Bull, and Toyota have voiced their opinions against such system, but Ferrari has taken it one step further with the recent announcement that they are going to trial with the FIA on May 19th.

Ferrari said to the 'Guardian' newspaper, "This is a statement from a board of directors who have a great deal of experience. I know that the decision coming out from the World Council is not correct for us and we will fight against it."

"And we are not joking," he added, "we are talking seriously because really and truly Ferrari will not be in the next championship if they stay with these rules."

"This is not because we want to spend money. We want to save money. All the constructors are keen on reducing the Formula 1 expenses. But you can reduce the expenditure without having a budget cap. And it's not enforceable, anyway."

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

Will FOTA Strip the FIA of its lawmaking powers?
16/05/2009
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=37912

Friday's announcement that Ferrari is seeking an injunction against the FIA to prevent it from introducing a two-tier structure to F1 puts a new light on comments made to Pitpass' Chris Sylt late last year by Bernie Ecclestone. At that time, Ecclestone bluntly told Sylt that since F1's regulations affect the commercial side of the sport, the FIA should not be writing them. FOTA, the association of F1 teams, may well have cottoned on just in time.
The sporting regulations basically are what generate the income and we run the commercial business. The FIA should just be the police looking at the rules," said Ecclestone and the teams agree.

"The international federation should simply be the referee. We should write the rules, not have them imposed by Max without speaking to anyone," said Flavio Briatore, Renault F1 team principal, on Thursday and it looks like he has the law on his side.

The reason for this is a European Commission ruling in 2001 that said the FIA must "have no influence over the commercial exploitation of the Formula One Championship." Ecclestone's comments echo this is as he told Sylt that "when we had this problem with the European Commission, they made it very clear that the FIA purely regulate the sport. Even to the extent that the teams and us should be writing the technical and sporting regulations."

But even before the EC ruling, Mosley acknowledged the FIA could not dictate on areas which interfere with the teams' businesses.

In 2000, at a UK government Select Committee meeting covering tobacco sponsorship of F1 teams, Mosley said "the difficulty is that we are dealing with commercial entities whom I have to persuade. If I could just say that is it and dictate, but I cannot. We can on the rules, on things like safety, but we cannot on things which would interfere with their commercial affairs."

'So how can the FIA make the cost-cutting regulations?', you may well ask. Well the answer, according to Ecclestone, is: "They can't really. The teams allow them." He explains that the FIA has been writing the regulations because the teams haven't opposed it. However, by suggesting the budget cap, Mosley looks to have tipped the balance and the teams are no longer playing ball. Pitpass understands that on 10 May FOTA Vice Chairman John Howett was reminded of Ecclestone's comments that the FIA should not, under European law, be writing F1's regulations. So even if Ferrari's injunction fails, the FIA could face further action from the teams and this time its very powers of lawmaking could be at stake.

shaunv74

They should rename the series: "As the crankshaft turns."

This is getting ridiculous. Does anyone think for more than 10 minutes and talk to each other before yakking to the media? This all seems like so much posturing and hot air. Why come up with a knee jerk blanket budget cap idea that is not enforceable or two tiered. Just retarded.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

This is a big $ sport and the players have even bigger egos. All 3 sides are saying it's my way or the highway.

alfy28

looks like this weekend race should be brawn and redbull (not that it hasnt been ths way) redbull is all systems go on their diffuser

http://www.worldcarfans.com/9090518....ouble-diffuser


Red Bull has succeeded in readying a 'double diffuser' solution in time for this weekend's Monaco grand prix.

Until mere days ago, designer Adrian Newey admitted it was "touch and go" whether the RB5, featuring unique pullrod rear suspension, could be modified in time to accommodate the controversial concept.

But team driver Sebastian Vettel has now been quoted by an Austrian television broadcast as confirming that his car will indeed have a double diffuser in the Principality.

The German, however, expects the true effect of the development to only become clear once the calendar moves on to the more conventional circuit in Turkey two weeks later.

Vettel told the ORF programme Sport am Sonntag: "But if the diffuser helps us, then it will also help in Monaco."