Anoter team might be dropping out also.


http://www.worldcarfans.com/9081207....low-honda-exit


As the shock news of Honda's formula one departure sinks in, fears that another team could drop off the 2009 grid are rising.

It was thought Japanese rival Toyota could be the most likely to follow the auto making giant out of the paddock, amid an even worse slump in car sales figures in the key US market.

But it is Red Bull, the Austrian energy drinks company, and owner of two teams, that has issued the most worrying statement, stating it is "not surprised" by Honda's decision.

"Numerous other race teams are having similar thoughts," the Austrian group is quoted as saying by AFP.

"The main issue now is whether the reductions in costs all of us must make will come quickly enough to guarantee a sufficient number of teams carrying on."

Even the sport's major players, like 2008 drivers' world champions McLaren, are feeling the pinch, with team boss Ron Dennis telling The Observer that annual turnover is likely to drop nearly $150m because of the downturn.

"Our budgets come from the advertising budgets of the companies that support us, and inevitably advertising budgets get slashed or, at least are significantly trimmed in times of economic strife," he said.

Ferrari and McLaren's ongoing participation is solid, but all the signs suggest that one more team could go missing ahead of next March's Australian grand prix.

Williams' chief executive Adam Parr told The Times that he expects eight teams to line up on the Melbourne grid. Similarly, Gerhard Berger, the recently departed Toro Rosso co-owner, told Germany's Der Spiegel that "the only question is 'who is next?'"

Asked by the Press Association if he can imagine another team following Honda out the door, FIA president Max Mosley answered "yes".

 

OT

Nascar is seeing problems also. http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/3032830

video (sad my work blocks it )

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/228251...11439#28111439

i do not anything about nascar. except that they drive in circles. how many teams do they have?

 

After the Honda announcement, most if not all of the other teams proclaimed that they were committed to F1.

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.a...44727&PO=44727
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/moto...ne/7768596.stm

The Red Bull teams announced they were committed. The only one I see that may drop out would be Force India.

NASCAR has gone on record that they want the US government to bail out the auto manufactures. If GM & Chrysler merge, that would be one less marque that would be in their lineup. The put about 45 cars on the track for a race. There are more cars that want a spot than are spaces on the track so they are eliminated in qualifying.

 

i see, thanks alnielsen.

 

From F1technical.net

http://www.f1technical.net/news/11229

"I believe that we probably will lose another team before the beginning of next season," said Parr in an interview with 'Reuters', "and there is a very high chance it will be a manufacturer."

The main reason for his belief that it might be a manufacturer is because of their dependance on shareholders' decisions, and when a shareholder decides to pull out of the team and the sport, a large portion of the teams income goes with them.

 

F1 is a mess right now. With teams pulling out and uncertainties about engine choices, I am sure these things are driving teams and fans crazy.

The car designs are going to take a lot of R&D as well. Right now we see cars that have simple wing designs. However I am not so sure these are the cars we will see next year. Just as Alonso said that the car they unveil will have nothing to do with the real car they race.

I think that the teams are going to develop a car that makes a lot of dirty air to make passing difficult. With the KERS we might not see a lot of passing, but probably less. KERS might be used to prevent a pass =)

 

http://www.worldcarfans.com/9081209....ve-kers---haug


F1 should scrap expensive KERS - Haug
December 9, 2008 9:42 PM
Filed Under: F1
Amid Honda's shock exit and the urgent need to cut costs, F1 should call off the introduction of KERS systems in 2009.

That is the view of Norbert Haug, motor racing chief of the German manufacturer Mercedes-Benz.

Given Honda's departure due to the global slump in road car sales, Haug told the Swiss publication Motorsport Aktuell "the time for games is over" as F1 seeks to slash out of control expenditure.

Numerous teams have recently tried to postpone the planned introduction next year of KERS, but outfits like BMW-Sauber are in favour of the energy-recovery technology.

Haug said KERS "is an extremely expensive exercise" and said the saving to the engine budgets by scrapping it would be at least 25 per cent.

He explained that the KERS concept should not be sidelined entirely, but in the current financial climate the prudent action would be to put it aside and "think about it later".

 

KERS should be scrapped. Everyone is complaining about the costs involved in F1. Then, they force this new tech on the teams. Don't they realize that developing new tech costs money?
Honda is pulling out of F1 because they are in the car sales business and F1 is a marketing tool. There are no longer any F1 races in N.America and soon to be none in Australia (because they are being forced to run a night race and the Aussies don't want to do that). F1 is no longer in Honda's major sales areas where they can make use of this tool.

 

The ex-Honda team still has funding from Honda until March, but in a much lesser amount.

 

Mercedes joins Ferrari in call for KERS ban.
http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/n..._kers_ban.html
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headline...09163541.shtml

Lauda backs calls for KERS delay (says initiative driving up costs)
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headline...10091524.shtml

I guess at least my post above is at least half right.

 

Renault denies breaking ranks with FOTA
December 10, 2008 6:16 PM
Filed Under: F1
Renault has denied it is contemplating breaking ranks with its fellow manufacturers and accepting the FIA's proposals for effectively a standard engine formula.

It was reported on Wednesday, both in English-speaking as well as foreign media, that F1's four independent teams, but also Renault, have responded favourably to Max Mosley's request for interest in receiving a low-cost Cosworth engine from 2010.

But at a recent meeting, the F1 teams' alliance FOTA unanimously agreed its own alternate plans for a low-cost - but not standard - turbo engine formula for 2011 and beyond.

FOTA's unified stance demonstrated they were resolute in their desire that F1 retain its core principles of being a spectacle but also a technological challenge.

"Even Renault wants to adhere to the FIA's plan," the Italian newspaper La Stampa observed. "Thus Max Mosley has succeeded in scoring the first point in this match."

Renault, however, reacted on Wednesday by insisting it remains in step with the F1 alliance.

"Following speculation that appeared this morning in the Italian press, (Renault) would like to state that the positions of the Team and Renault are in complete accordance to those of the FOTA," a statement said.

It has also emerged that one of FOTA's unanimous proposals to cut costs but retain F1's principles is to reduce races from their current 300km to just 250km in 2009 and beyond.


http://www.worldcarfans.com/9081210....anks-with-fota

 

It just occured to me that they don't need the KERS thing to make more passings possible. They could let them raise the redline of their engines to gain that 80hp a few seconds per lap. They already have the technology for higher redline, why bother with KERS.

Also, it is my understanding that the main reason for KERS is for the passings, not to research into a new technology that would trickle down to road cars. Besides, it is already used on priuses and insights, etc etc.

 

http://www.f1technical.net/news/11266

The following measures to reduce costs in Formula One have been agreed by the World Motor Sport Council during the meeting at Monaco on 12 December 2008. These proposed changes have the unanimous agreement of the Formula One teams, who have played a major role in their development. The FIA is grateful to the Formula One Teams’ Association (FOTA) and its Chairman Luca di Montezemolo for their incisive contribution.

2009
Engine
• Engine life to be doubled. Each driver will use a maximum of eight engines for the season plus four for testing (thus 20 per team).
• Limit of 18,000 rpm.
• No internal re-tuning. Adjustment to trumpets and injectors only.
• The three-race rule voted on 5 November remains in force.
• Cost of engines to independent teams will be approximately 50% of 2008 prices.
• Unanimous agreement was reached on a list of proposed changes to the Renault engine for 2009; all other engines will remain unchanged. Comparative testing will not be necessary.

Testing
• No in-season testing except during race weekend during scheduled practice.

Aerodynamic research
• No wind tunnel exceeding 60% scale and 50 metres/sec to be used after 1 January 2009.
• A formula to balance wind tunnel-based research against CFD research, if agreed between the teams, will be proposed to the FIA.

Factory activity
• Factory closures for six weeks per year, to accord with local laws.

Race weekend
• Manpower to be reduced by means of a number of measures, including sharing information on tyres and fuel to eliminate the need for “spotters”.

Sporting spectacle
• Market research is being conducted to gauge the public reaction to a number of new ideas, including possible changes to qualifying and a proposal for the substitution of medals for points for the drivers. Proposals will be submitted to the FIA when the results of the market research are known.

Note: It is estimated that these changes for 2009 will save the manufacturer teams approximately 30% of their budgets compared to 2008, while the savings for independent teams will be even greater.

2010
Power train
• Engines will be available to the independent teams for less than €5 million per team per season. These will either come from an independent supplier or be supplied by the manufacturer teams backed by guarantees of continuity. If an independent supplier, the deal will be signed no later than 20 December 2008.
• This same engine will continue to be used in 2011 and 2012 (thus no new engine for 2011).
• Subject to confirmation of practicability, the same transmission will be used by all teams.

Chassis
• A list of all elements of the chassis will be prepared and a decision taken in respect of each element as to whether or not it will remain a performance differentiator (competitive element).
• Some elements which remain performance differentiators will be homologated for the season.
• Some elements will remain performance differentiators, but use inexpensive materials.
• Elements which are not performance differentiators will be prescriptive and be obtained or manufactured in the most economical possible way.

Race weekend
• Standardised radio and telemetry systems.
• Ban on tyre warmers.
• Ban on mechanical purging of tyres.
• Ban on refueling.
• Possible reduction in race distance or duration (proposal to follow market research).

Factory activity
• Further restrictions on aerodynamic research.
• Ban on tyre force rigs (other than vertical force rigs).
• Full analysis of factory facilities with a view to proposing further restrictions on facilities.

Longer term

The FIA and FOTA will study the possibility of an entirely new power train for 2013 based on energy efficiency (obtaining more work from less energy consumed). Rules to be framed so as to ensure that research and development of such a power train would make a real contribution to energy-efficient road transport.

An enhanced Kinetic Energy Recovery System (KERS) system is likely to be a very significant element of an energy-efficient power train in the future. In the short term, KERS is part of the 2009 regulations, but is not compulsory. For 2010 FOTA is considering proposals for a standard KERS system. The FIA awaits proposals.
.................................................. ....
Notice 2010 - Ban on refueling & tire warmers

 

Good bye F1 then, and good bye 250 2stroke moto gp...
I mean, is it so hard to understand that a prototype race such as f1, moto gp and such should avoid rules about what and how to use?
If i find a v8 engine to be less expensive and more durable than a v10 then i will use it, if a team find a v12 to be the best option for their chassis and son on...
I don't find it to be so difficult to understand that freedom and free market will help reducing costs, not limitations. Isn't it harder to build something to spec and make it work right rather than drawing something that works from the beginning?
If they're really concerned about prices (which they are not, in fact) they could put one limitation: budget.
"Let's see who wins with 300millions of budget" and call it a day.

 

PSA Peugeot-Citroen eyes Honda F1 team
December 15, 2008 3:58 PM
Filed Under: F1
The French manufacturer PSA, selling cars under the names Peugeot and Citroen, has reportedly expressed interest in buying Honda's beleaguered formula one team.

Anonymous sources apparently told the Belgian motor racing magazine Autosportnieuws that the carmaker, last involved in F1 as an engine supplier with the now-defunct Prost team, has made enquiries to buy the Brackley based team as an active F1 competitor.

Citroen's world rally team is the reigning drivers' and constructors' champion, and Peugeot is involved in Le Mans racing.

It is suggested that, given F1's willingness to vastly reduce operating costs, PSA is interested in stepping because it has not been hit as hard by the world economic crisis than some of its peers abroad.

The French government is also pledging financial support to the car sector, in return for Renault and Peugeot-Citroen promising to limit job cuts and plant closures.

It is suggested that Sebastien Bourdais, the French F1 driver whose Toro Rosso seat is in doubt for 2009, would be part of a PSA buyout, with Jenson Button as his teammate
http://www.worldcarfans.com/9081215....-honda-f1-team

 

http://www.worldcarfans.com/9081217....---montezemolo


Standard F1 engine would have emptied grid - Montezemolo
December 18, 2008 6:07 AM
Filed Under: F1, Ferrari
Four or five more teams, as well as Ferrari, would have followed Honda out of the sport had the FIA imposed a standard engine formula.

That is the revelation of Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo, who as chairman of the F1 teams' alliance FOTA oversaw the cost-slashing compromise solution with the FIA president Max Mosley.

"If one engine for all the teams had come in, at least four - maybe five - teams would have left. And I mean four or five in addition to Ferrari," the Italian is quoted as saying by La Gazzetta dello Sport.

Instead, FOTA and FIA came to a compromise where millions of euros will be cut out of annual budgets by de-tuning the current engines, and introducing radical measures including a total in-season testing ban.

Montezemolo also responded to Lewis Hamilton's recent claim that he has no desire to ever switch to Ferrari.

"Without doubt, he is a great driver, able to fight for the title in his first year and then win in the second.

"But, with all due respect, I would not swap him for Felipe Massa."

As for Hamilton's apparent lifetime Ferrari snub, Montezemolo added: "Usually, it is Ferrari that makes the choices.

"Kimi Raikkonen came to Ferrari and won the championship. And it was because of our mistakes that Massa did not win this year."



lol your just mad because not every one worships team ferrari. and this why i like hamilton

and also, if kimi wasnt sleeping at the wheel 99.9% of the time, he could of one this year also.

 

BBC SPORT
Prodrive signals renewed F1 hopes
By Matt Slater

The owner of British motorsport firm Prodrive says efforts to cut Formula One's high costs could tempt smaller, private teams back to the grid.

The global economic downturn has made a big impact on motorsport recently, with some major car makers pulling out.

Honda quit F1 two weeks ago, Suzuki left rallying on Monday and Prodrive partner Subaru followed on Tuesday.

"The sport will go back to how it was in the 1970s and '80s when smaller teams came to the fore," Richards said.

"And who knows? Maybe that is another opportunity for Prodrive. We're very interested if Formula One going to address the costs issue.

"I have always said there are two criteria for Prodrive's return to Formula One: one, we want to be competitive, and two, it must be financially viable. If we tick those two boxes there is a strong likelihood we will be back there."

The 56-year-old, who has had stints in F1 as boss at BAR and Benetton, wanted Prodrive to join motorsport's top tier in 2008 but had to back down because of opposition from the grid's biggest teams.

They were against his plan of buying an engine/chassis off the shelf - a so-called "customer car". Their opposition centred on the belief that F1 is more than just a contest between drivers and that teams should develop their own cars.

But the economic climate has changed since then and the sport has been forced to reassess its dizzying costs and prohibitively high barriers to entry.

Last week, the sport's governing body, the FIA, brokered a cost-cutting pact with the remaining F1 team owners. Among the measures approved were commitments to use less powerful but longer-lasting engines and do away with in-season testing.

FIA boss Max Mosley's plan for all teams to use a single engine/gear-box package was resisted by the major manufacturers but a "common" engine built to agreed specifications by an independent supplier will be made available to smaller teams at a cost of no more than £4.5m per season.

This will reduce costs for those teams by 50% and the other belt-tightening measures should cut overall budgets for the larger teams by 30%. Mosley described the agreement as the "first step towards Formula One saving itself".

"It's about time - the costs associated with Formula One cannot be sustainable," said Richards, who has been linked with the up-for-sale Honda team.

"We've seen the sad withdrawal of Honda in recent weeks and unless those costs can be brought under control I fear another manufacturer may follow.

"But the new regulations and cost-cutting programmes certainly make (F1) more appealing and far more suitable for a company such as ours. It's still a challenge, not to be underestimated, but it certainly becomes far more feasible and realistic."

Speculation about the Banbury-based firm's next move will go up several notches now its lengthy World Rally Championship venture with Subaru has come to a surprisingly abrupt end, but Prodrive is not the only British motorsport company with F1 ambitions.

Founded in 2004, iSport International has enjoyed considerable success in GP2, F1's feeder series, and has nurtured the driving talents of Scott Speed, Timo Glock and Bruno Senna.

Like Richards, iSport boss Paul Jackson has been watching F1's efforts to rein in its spending with interest.

"We're still a long way off but Formula One is moving in the right direction," said Jackson.

"The return of pure privateer teams with the ability to buy engines, gearboxes and all the other bits of technology for a sensible price and compete on a reasonably level playing-field, would be really good for the sport.

"If that was available, and the cost was realistic, it's definitely something we would be interested in looking at.

"Until now, there has been such a gulf between us and Formula One - because you have to set up a design, R&D and manufacturing facility as well as a racing team - it would have been impossible to think about competing without the backing of a major manufacturer or billionaire.

"But if you're allowed to buy all that in and run a 'customer car' it becomes more viable."

Jackson's GP2 team has an annual budget of almost £3m, still less than a tenth of what F1's backmarkers will be spending in 2009 even after last week's financial surgery. Last season, the likes of Toyota, McLaren and Ferrari had £300m-plus budgets and Honda burned a reported £270m for a championship return of just 14 points.

Jackson described these levels of over-spending as "reckless" and said overall costs would have to be halved again before F1 became a sustainable proposition for companies the size of iSport.

"If you could do it on a budget of £15-20m it would not be unrealistic to go out into the sponsorship market and say 'we can go into Formula One and give you all that global exposure at a much reduced price'.

"I think they would accept you're not going to challenge McLaren and Ferrari but you wouldn't be that far off because of the (new)restrictions. And with a lean, well-run machine you've got a chance of causing an upset.

"It's never going to be easy but it's achievable. It's the sort of thing you'd look into more seriously now."

But for Jackson to take the plunge he would want to see further cost reductions, particularly in the area of salaries.

"There has to be a change in everybody's expectations in what they earn from the sport," he said.

"You typically get drivers and top designers earning huge sums of money that just aren't sustainable.

"They should be able to earn those sums but only on a performance basis - paying drivers and engineers millions of pounds on a retainer basis, regardless of results, is crazy.

"It's happened because the manufacturers have been able to write those big cheques to get household names. But how many talented, young drivers are out there who would drive an F1 car for £100,000 and a bonus scheme? It would be a pretty long queue."
Story from BBC SPORT:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/spo...ne/7784520.stm

Published: 2008/12/17 14:55:26 GMT

© BBC MMVIII

 

http://sports.myway.com/news/12222008/v3165.html

Dec 22, 9:18 PM (ET)

By YURI KAGEYAMA

NAGOYA, Japan (AP) -Toyota will scale back costs on Formula One racing, but is vowing not to drop out despite expectations it will record its first yearly operating loss in seven decades.

Toyota Motor Corp. president Katsuaki Watanabe did not give details on how the Japanese automaker would cut spending in F1. Toyota has not had an F1 victory in seven years.

"To keep it up at the current level is extremely difficult," he told reporters Monday at Toyota's Nagoya office.

Watanabe said F1 was a good way to attract young people.

Earlier this month, Honda Motor Co., Japan's No. 2 automaker, announced it was pulling out of F1.

Japanese automakers have been battered by the downturn in the U.S. auto market, the world's biggest. The slowdown is spreading to other regions, including emerging markets, where they had been holding up.

In recent weeks, Subaru and Suzuki have both quit the World Rally Championship, citing concerns about the global economic crisis.

Fuji Heavy Industries, which makes Subaru cars, announced the decision earlier this month, a day after fellow Japanese automaker Suzuki Motor Corp.'s departure.

Toyota is expecting to eke a net profit for the fiscal year ending March 2009, as it racks up its first operating red ink since it began reporting such numbers in 1941.

The only other time it has had an operating loss was unofficial, in 1938, a year after its founding.

F1 stakeholders announced measures to reduce the costs for teams in 2009 in the wake of Honda's withdrawal and the earlier departure of Super Aguri in April.

Auto racing governing body FIA and the teams agreed to a series of changes which include longer-lasting engines, limits on expensive testing and cheaper, off-the-shelf engines for smaller teams.

The FIA said the first batch of changes for the 2009 season will help the larger teams cut costs by about one-third over 2008.

 

All things considered, I am looking forward to the coming season, if for no other reason than all of the uncertanties surrounding the sport on and off the track.

 

Agreed...I'm looking forward to the new season. With all the changes it should throw up a few surprises. I'm a Ham fan...but I'd love to see Kubica put the BMW on top....even though that *** took Villieneuve's seat...yeah, all these years and i'm still bitter, hahahaha

 

http://wot.motortrend.com/6399874/mo...ect/index.html

Posted Today 01:26 PM by Nate Martinez
Category: Motorsports, Europe

Yuletide Humor: Bernie Ecclestone Style

In his annual Christmas cards sent to his closest friends, Formula 1 owner Bernie Ecclestone has been known to stir up some humorous mischief. And for this year, his greeting card antics are becoming even more popular, especially considering the subject of this mailbox stuffer.

Inside the card, a cartoon depicts FIA president Max Mosley spanking F1 team owners and directors with a stick while sitting at their pitlane kiosks. Ecclestone, meanwhile, follows closely behind and consoles each team principle with bandages and a smile.



"Usual team punishment, just a special for Christmas. Have a happy one. Bernie," reads the card.

If you don't get it, Mosley was exposed earlier this spring for taking part in a controversial S&M style orgy. He later sued the publication who broke the news and who also claimed it carried a **** connotation. Mosley successfully pleaded his case and was awarded 60,000 pounds ($88,000) in restitution.

While being scandalous in nature, the card is hard not to laugh at. All the caricatures portray their real life counterparts fairly well, and as the adage sort of goes, the best medicine (for an embarrassed public figure) is always humor.
max mosley

Mosley to decide fate in FIA by June

Speaking of Max Mosley, he recently revealed to F1.com that he will decide whether or not to again seek the position of president for the International Automobile Federation (FIA) by next June.

Prior to this announcement, he stated that he had no plans to extend his tenure past its expiration date in October 2009 due to pressure for his resignation following the much publicized sex scandal.

It's believed his recent reconsideration to try for another term has been spurred by the support and confidence of his continued leadership from associates in the FIA.

Safe to say, the 2009 Formula 1 season is already an entertaining one -- and the cars haven't even left the grid.

Source: Reuters, F1.com, F1Fanatic.co.uk via Daily Star

 

Alonso and Ferrari
Claims of a deal for 2011
F1-Live link 29/12/08 09:49

Alonso under contract for 2009 and 2010 with the Renault team Fernando Alonso has an agreement to switch to Ferrari in 2011, Italy's La Gazzetta dello Sport claims.

The former champion, who is linked with the famous Maranello-based team on an almost weekly basis, could even switch to Ferrari in 2010 as an early replacement for 2007 champion Kimi Raikkonen the newspaper claimed.

Gazzetta said the agreement with 27-year-old Alonso is quite open, with numerous two-sided exit clauses, but that if fully exercised could see the driver race at Ferrari until the end of 2014.


A Ferrari spokesman said only: "We can only repeat that we have two drivers signed to the end of 2010."

Alonso's current Renault contract also runs for two more years.
------------------------------
Alonso's Ferrari desire ''no secret'' says manager
But 2011 is still far away...
F1-Live link 29/12/08 15:35

Too early for any confirmationsFernando Alonso's manager has admitted that the Spanish former double World Champion wants to race for Ferrari one day.

"That Fernando has expressed some interest in racing for Ferrari is no secret," said Luis Garcia Abad, following reports in the Italian media that Alonso, 27, has inked a secret deal to switch to the Maranello-based team in 2011.

Abad, however, told the news agency EFE that any suggestion of a done deal would be premature.

"2011 is still a long way away," he said. "It is too early to talk about that."

"Formula One is going through a time of great difficulty from an economic point of view, so it is difficult to think about the future."

 

i wonder if Kimi is going to retire

 

I so hope Kimi will bounce back and be fit for fight. Despite being a Hamilton fan I believe Kimi with his experience will make the best driver on the grid. I want to see really intense racing 2009 with the outcome uncertain in every race.

Imagine if all these drivers could be equally competetive this season:
Hamilton, Raikkonen, Massa, Alonso, Vettel, Kubica

If all these drivers have competitive packages there is no telling how it will go. I'm so cheering for a good 2009 season that will be as exciting as the last one!

 

aye, even though i make fun of team ferrari. i actually like their drivers, and hope kimi gets off the bottle and show us his awesome skills.