Pololo_RX8

Seriously, this is BS!! Are they stupid or what? Everybody, everybody, every team in F1 takes team orders... Let's face it, If Vettel was not "german" and RB's favorite driver, Webber could have won the championship already... What MORONS!!

Every team has favorites and in one way or another this also means "team orders", just in a very polite way...

I don't like Vettel at all... Heck I prefer Hamilton so you can tell how much I dislike him... I am sure Webber has had enough in favoring one team-mate over the other... No team orders?? yeah right....

Carlos

moRotorMotor

STOP THE PRESS, EVERYONE!
Abu Dhabi to stay dry for F1 finale!!!


After rain affected the last three grand prix weekends, it is almost certain that the F1 world can expect a dry finale in Abu Dhabi.

Indeed, it almost never rains in the United Arab Emirate capital, where outside the cosmopolitan city lies endless miles of sandy desert.

Media reports say it hasn't rained in Abu Dhabi for more than 120 days running, but - interestingly - a light shower is forecast for when the F1 fraternity congregates at Yas Marina on Thursday.

Beyond that, a dry and sunny weekend in the 20s is expected.

The F1 cars arrive in Abu Dhabi on Tuesday, after a mad rush on Sunday to pack up the equipment in Brazil amid perhaps the tightest turnaround between races in the sport's history.

At Interlagos on Sunday, Red Bull team members celebrated their constructors' title win with loud music while they packed up just minutes after the chequered flag.

"We divided the team into three shifts to get everything done on time," confirmed McLaren's chief operating officer Simon Roberts.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

To him the drivers championship is a lessor priority. He won his manufactures championship. That is where the money is.

alfy28

WOOOO, Did I just hear this correctly? I take it that not all of Alonso fans are not sheeps. Liking Alonsos fans more and more lately.

To bad Alonso doesnt think like his fans, in fact he thinks RB shouldnt do any team orders. Guess he only likes it when it only works for him.

mike1324a

While im very glad that Red Bull has taken this stance, I do think nice guys finish last in this case. While letting them race is the best for the fans, Alonso will be laughing about fairness all the way to the bank with a 3rd title. On the other hand though, this is great advertisement for Red Bull by having them take the high road and advertisement is the real reason Red Bull is in F1 in the first place. This is a calculated decision on their part and they see that its more profitable by taking this position.

[c]K

Well is HAM is not out of the championship, but it would be a miracle if Alonso, Webber and Vettel do not complete the race.

BTW Kobayashi is AWESOME, but it's quite ironic he had a crazy race in Brasil last year for his first F1 race and had a pretty boring one at the same place this year

RWatters

iTrader: (5)

Sorry for no replies over the past couple of weeks. I've been in Mexico on my honeymoon! Now, back to business.

Kobayashi is a lame duck. He's either on fire or does absolutely nothing. How does the guy bonzai everyone in Suzuka yet get passed in the same exact corner LAP AFTER LAP in Brazil and it didn't even look like he was trying? He'll never make it to a big team if he drives all over the place like he does now.

I love that Red Bull favors Vettel so damn much as it's keeping Alonso's title chance alive! Anyone who says they don't have team orders there is insane. Their team orders this season are that they have none, meaning they aren't helping Webber one damn bit and as a result it keeps Vettel's chance of winning the title alive all while screwing Webber out of his. If the points positions of these two were reversed I GUARANTEE that team orders would've been called and Vettel would've been the champion by now. It's pretty obvious what they're doing. Don't give them props, they're hiding it just about as well as Ferrari did IMO. lol

Speaking of Ferrari, god I hope Alonso pulls this off. If he does it will be incredible! Supposedly Ferrari has a good engine for him for the last race as well which seemed to concern Red Bull (as it should). Alonso knows exactly what he needs to do and is very poised to do it. More or less just look for Webber (assuming he's in the points) and follow him around. It's his if he does just that.

This is going to be one insanely interesting race I have a feeling. I can't wait!

PerSmitt

Exactly, no matter how this works out the memory from 2010 will be:

Ferrari cheats
Red Bull plays fair

Hence Red Bull > Ferrari

Obviously the die-hard Ferrari fans will defend Alonso's and the teams actions to the bitter end, but everyone hovering in between will see Ferrari as evil and Red Bull as good.

If Red Bull loses the drivers title because of this it is even better for Red Bull because they get martyred. "Yeah we lost since we played fair". That will strengthen the brand further, and that gentlemen is what it all comes down to. Even knowing this I still sympathize with Red Bull and love their fair play.

To all Vettel-haters out there: Last year the situation was reversed, with Vettel chasing Button and Webber being behind. Webber was only told to help with Vettel's chances once Webber was mathematically out of the championship. What we are seeing today is the same as last year, just dragged two races longer. Webber managed to get himself knocked out of the championship before Brazil back then. Now both drivers have a shot at the title and both drivers are allowed to go for it.

bse50

Uhm...
Points and chances wise i think that most, if not any, ferrari hater lacks a broader vision of this situation.
Massa was passed by Alonso once because of a team order BUT how many points did alonso lose in other circumstances because of technical gremlins, newbie mistakes (spa) and bad races\strategies in general (monaco etc)?
I'm not saying that if he wins with less than 7 points of difference it won't stink BUT at least give him some credit for coming back this strong all on his own albeit having to fight idiotic engineers and lame situations. I mean, Massa and him share the same car... why is he the only one doing this great?

He would be the first one winning 3 titles before age 30... realistically putting him in the hunt for other huge records. Does he deserve this? Considering how he behaved, hell no. Considering how he is behaving at the moment, i really think so.

We have 3 phenomenal drivers right now (Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso) with some good outsiders (Webber, Button, Kubica) so i guess that the kind of fight to the title is much harder now than it was during Schumacher's mid career where it was him and hakkinen, him and some other random a**hole but nothing relevant.

bse50

I agree, unfortunately the Ferrari years are over.
Why do we keep domenicali? I miss todt, brawn and how they built an empire.

PerSmitt

Well if we count the technical gremlins then Vettel should have won by now. He is by far the most unlucky driver this year. But that Alonso has done a great comeback is very true. He has fought like a true champion against all odds and is really being a favorite to the championship now.

However, if he wins with a few points margin people will not remember his technical issues. They will not remember his incredible fight and race wins. They will remember "Fernando is faster than you. Can you confirm that you understand the message."

Which is a shame really, because Alonso has done a great campaign this year.

RWatters

iTrader: (5)

I will laugh my *** off at each and every single person who bashes Alonso for winning this championship this year if it's by 7 points. EVERY season has team orders that influence the champion at some point whether we hear it broadcasted live on the radio or not.

Those that do it will prove how ignorant to F1 they are. F1 is a team sport, thus there will always be team orders (whether we hear them or not). It's how it is, and how it will always be. That doesn't make it right, but that doesn't change the fact that it's pretty much gone on since the beginning of the series.

RWatters

iTrader: (5)

Ferrari needs to ditch their elitist mentality. Once they do that I think they'll stand a better chance overall. That said, a red car is leading the points right now so it's not like they're doing that bad. lol

alfy28

alfy28

You make a good point, but you missed one thing. Ususally team orders for the championship happens when the 2nd driver has no chance for the title. We USUSAlly see see team orders happen closer to the end of the season, not in the middle.


Like someone else mentioned early, only the die hard Ferrari fans will turn a blind eye, but the rest of the world will remember how Ferrari stole the championship. Which sucks, because just imagine if Alonso didnt take the free pass, this season would of been his best, but that day in hock will overshadow his great year.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

You found my custom built track car.

alfy28

LOl , i wish adrian would come back to Mclaren they need him

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

He'll probably be found at Lotus in the future. He has a new mountain to climb.

alfy28

^^ that would be so awesome. the guy is a freaking genius.

RWatters

iTrader: (5)

I understand the points everyone is making, I really do. It was a silly call to make when they made it because they had absolutely NO idea how the championship would've ended up, but I still think the call was made more to prevent an accident because Massa was NOT going to let that pass happen. Either way, blind luck paid off and it's never a bad thing to have it on your side. lol

Hopefully he wins it by more than 7 and this whole thing can be put to rest. If it doesn't I'll still consider it an amazing drive and an amazing win. I'd consider it an amazing drive and win regardless of the team or driver though.

RWatters

iTrader: (5)

No kidding. I'd LOVE to see that!

[c]K

Question is: which Lotus team ?

alfy28

^^ are they still fighting over the name ?

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

On the topic of great engineers; I think it should be against the rules to hire a top engineer from another team at random times of the year. The way McLaren's top guy went to Ferrari mid season is the REAL story this year. My 'Ultimate' driver (The Hamster) is struggling his *** off in a decent chassis, just not the 'Ultimate' chassis. I would venture to say that the biggest improvements this year to Ferrari came from Pat Fry who joined them around July.

Adrian Newey is the best though.

Just an opinion.

Paul.

RX26b

The title is Alonso's to lose. If VET, WEB, ALO are running 1, 2, 3 and Vet moves over and lets Webber win, it's a gift. Same as the team orders that had Massa move over for 'Nando. Either way, it wasn't earned - that's how I see it. But, team orders should be a part of the sport, because afterall, each team has 2 cars; so each one should work to ensure maximum points for the other.

Here's the simple math.

From planetf1.com:

Fernando Alonso
- A victory or second place in UAE will ensure he wins his third World title regardless of what the other contenders do
- If Webber wins, he needs to finish P2
- If Webber finishes P2, he needs to finish at least P5
- If Webber finishes P3, he needs to finish at least P6
- If Webber finishes P4, he needs to finish at least P8
- If Webber finishes P5, he needs to finish at least P9
- If Vettel wins, he needs to finish at least P4
- If Vettel finishes P2, he needs to finish at least P8


Mark Webber
- Webber can't afford to finish lower than fifth if he wants to stand any chance of winning his maiden Championship
- If he wins, Alonso needs to finish no higher than P3
- If he finishes P2, Alonso needs to finish no higher than P6 and Vettel no higher than P2
- If he finishes P3, Alonso needs to finish no higher than P7 and Vettel no higher than P2
- If he finishes P4, Alonso needs to be finish no higher than P9 and Vettel no higher than P2
- If he finishes P5, Alonso needs to finish P10 and Vettel no higher than P3


Sebastian Vettel
- Any position lower than second will see him finish the season empty handed
- If he wins, he needs Alonso to finish P5 or lower
- If he finishes P2, he needs Alonso to finish no higher than P9 and Webber no higher than P5


Lewis Hamilton
- He needs to win to stand any chance of winning a second title
- If he wins, Alonso needs to finish P11 or lower, Webber needs to finish P6 or lower and Vettel needs to finish no higher than P3


* Should Vettel win the race and finish level on 256 points with a fifth-placed Alonso, then the Red Bull driver will win the Championship. They will both have won the same amount of race victories (five), same amount of second-place finishes (two) and same number of third place finishes (three). The title will be decided by fourth-place finishes which Vettel leads three to two.

* Should Vettel win and Webber is second they'll finish on the same number of points but the German will take the honours as he will have five race victories to the Australian's four.