Official 2011 Formula 1 Season Discussion
07-09-2011, 09:16 AM
#752
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07-10-2011, 01:04 AM
#758
In this one thing, Bernie has it right. Everything is cyclical. Red Bull is on top this year. It won't last. One way or another, someone will build another car that is better. No one stays on top forever.
I found him easier to understand than Ozzy. Yes, don't do drugs. Give them to me so I can properly dispose of them.
I found him easier to understand than Ozzy. Yes, don't do drugs. Give them to me so I can properly dispose of them.
07-11-2011, 02:36 AM
#764
They're probably worrying about Ferrari's comeback,I wouldn't be too worried though.
I will say something now that may upset most but I think that some teams are already developing 2012 cars without caring too much about the limitations\rule that limit tests etc.
You and I Al already talked about something like that happening last year, do you remember?
I also find curious to say the least how they didn't punish or reprimend Hamilton for running into Massa in the last chicane. He has been fined for less outside the UK. I know it was a race contact and I love seeing that kind of fights but the stewards should keep on the same line during every race (and that should be just let'em race, who cares if they crash).
I will say something now that may upset most but I think that some teams are already developing 2012 cars without caring too much about the limitations\rule that limit tests etc.
You and I Al already talked about something like that happening last year, do you remember?
I also find curious to say the least how they didn't punish or reprimend Hamilton for running into Massa in the last chicane. He has been fined for less outside the UK. I know it was a race contact and I love seeing that kind of fights but the stewards should keep on the same line during every race (and that should be just let'em race, who cares if they crash).
07-11-2011, 03:15 AM
#765
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Well if Mark has had the entire race to pass him and failed during that time, what would be the point of risking an accident and zero points at the last 2 laps?
Since team orders are permitted then its up to the teams to use them. Thats all there is to it.
Since team orders are permitted then its up to the teams to use them. Thats all there is to it.
07-11-2011, 03:21 AM
#766
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I also find curious to say the least how they didn't punish or reprimend Hamilton for running into Massa in the last chicane. He has been fined for less outside the UK. I know it was a race contact and I love seeing that kind of fights but the stewards should keep on the same line during every race (and that should be just let'em race, who cares if they crash).
Both Massa and Hamilton go all out in those last turns and they both create this contact. Neither is willing to give up and it is such a lovely finale to the race. I'm glad FIA didn't go all crazy and start penalizing over that.
07-11-2011, 03:49 AM
#767
Don't get me wrong, i'm glad too that they're letting the drivers drive.
What I don't like is this difference from one venue to the other.
On a sidenote: Tilke can't design tracks.
Spa, Silverstone, Monza and the other few older tracks are the only races that don't make me fall asleep. Tilke focuses too much on braking zones when it's actually easier to overtake on a straight after a fast sweeper (or vice versa) with the actual braking power and aerodynamics...
What I don't like is this difference from one venue to the other.
On a sidenote: Tilke can't design tracks.
Spa, Silverstone, Monza and the other few older tracks are the only races that don't make me fall asleep. Tilke focuses too much on braking zones when it's actually easier to overtake on a straight after a fast sweeper (or vice versa) with the actual braking power and aerodynamics...
07-11-2011, 03:58 AM
#768
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Mmm, "Mark, you have to maintain the gap " wtf ?
He could have passed the kid, but told to maintain the gap!!!!..
I really thought RBR was different and or better than this Team Order CRAP!!..
THIS IS NOT MOTORSPORT....
and NO I am not sore about Webber's position this year, but ANY driver from ANY team that is told to hold back is just BS, particularly when the season is far from over...
And they wonder why some people turn off from F1...
07-11-2011, 04:20 AM
#769
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YES, what a load of BULLSHIT!!!..
He could have passed the kid, but told to maintain the gap!!!!..
I really thought RBR was different and or better than this Team Order CRAP!!..
THIS IS NOT MOTORSPORT....
and NO I am not sore about Webber's position this year, but ANY driver from ANY team that is told to hold back is just BS, particularly when the season is far from over...
And they wonder why some people turn off from F1...
He could have passed the kid, but told to maintain the gap!!!!..
I really thought RBR was different and or better than this Team Order CRAP!!..
THIS IS NOT MOTORSPORT....
and NO I am not sore about Webber's position this year, but ANY driver from ANY team that is told to hold back is just BS, particularly when the season is far from over...
And they wonder why some people turn off from F1...
Still if you haven't managed to pass during the entire race why would you want to risk everything at the last lap when you have a 2-3 position secured? The the tactically sound solution is to not fight on the last lap and risk losing 18+15 points. They could not reach Alonso and there was no threat from Hamilton, so obviously the team just wanted to cash in the points.
I'm not saying thats the best for the audience. I'm just saying that since team orders are permitted then that is something we should expect from the teams (to make the correct tactical decision).
I wonder how the talks will be within the team considering Webber totally disregarded the order.
07-11-2011, 06:05 AM
#770
Webber did the right thing ignoring the order.
He is an excellent second driver that, albeit being older and less talented than Vettel, still races to win.
That's good for the team as Vettel will have to keep pushing all season long.
Massa on the other hand just disappeared this season. Bad luck or not he should be right behind Alonso, not always some positions behind.
He is an excellent second driver that, albeit being older and less talented than Vettel, still races to win.
That's good for the team as Vettel will have to keep pushing all season long.
Massa on the other hand just disappeared this season. Bad luck or not he should be right behind Alonso, not always some positions behind.
07-11-2011, 06:24 AM
#771
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Webber did the right thing ignoring the order.
He is an excellent second driver that, albeit being older and less talented than Vettel, still races to win.
That's good for the team as Vettel will have to keep pushing all season long.
Massa on the other hand just disappeared this season. Bad luck or not he should be right behind Alonso, not always some positions behind.
He is an excellent second driver that, albeit being older and less talented than Vettel, still races to win.
That's good for the team as Vettel will have to keep pushing all season long.
Massa on the other hand just disappeared this season. Bad luck or not he should be right behind Alonso, not always some positions behind.
07-11-2011, 07:20 AM
#772
I'm not sure Webber ignored them, personally. I would imagine he must be pissed at being considered a 2nd driver. I don't think their tensions are over in the RBR camp.
What is the deal with McLaren and fuel? This is not the first season that they are miscalculating either. Also, why can't they do under 4 second tire changes routinely? Lewis is probably quite upset, thinking about a potential podium. It may not get easier for him than a rainy race.
Paul.
What is the deal with McLaren and fuel? This is not the first season that they are miscalculating either. Also, why can't they do under 4 second tire changes routinely? Lewis is probably quite upset, thinking about a potential podium. It may not get easier for him than a rainy race.
Paul.
Last edited by Mazmart; 07-11-2011 at 07:26 AM.
07-11-2011, 07:49 AM
#773
British Grand Prix: Mark Webber frustrated by team orders
see more at http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/form...e/14099315.stm
Red Bull driver Mark Webber has spoken of his frustration after being ordered not to overtake team-mate Sebastian Vettel in the closing stages of the British Grand Prix.
Webber was in a battle for second with championship leader Vettel and manoeuvred to pass the German.
But the Australian was told "Mark, maintain the gap" on the team radio.
"I'm not fine with it, no," Webber said after the race, and added that he did not pay attention to the orders.
"[If] Fernando [Alonso] retires on the last lap, we're battling for victory.
Webber was in a battle for second with championship leader Vettel and manoeuvred to pass the German.
But the Australian was told "Mark, maintain the gap" on the team radio.
"I'm not fine with it, no," Webber said after the race, and added that he did not pay attention to the orders.
"[If] Fernando [Alonso] retires on the last lap, we're battling for victory.
07-11-2011, 10:29 AM
#775
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This is BULLSHIT!!! PLAIN BULLSHIT!!!
I remember last year when Horner and MOST OF THE PEOPLE on this thread were "crying" about the decision of Ferrari... Even Horner himself and the Team owner said... "we let our drivers race. No Team orders"... WHAT BS!!
Bunch of hypocrites! Webber had to really restrained himself from passing Vettel if he was to have any support from the team moving forward. He knows he is #2 and he knows his days at RB are numbered...
With Hamilton moving to RB next year, this will be even more interesting.
They can take each other out any time... especially with "Mr Demolition" aka "Hamilton"
Great race for Ferrari, especially for Alonso... and yes I tend to agree, Hamilton should have been penalized for what he did...
This season is getting worse every weekend...I guess I am canceling Speed in the next couple of weeks... I'll give it a couple more races but I don't think this will get any better...
Carlos
I remember last year when Horner and MOST OF THE PEOPLE on this thread were "crying" about the decision of Ferrari... Even Horner himself and the Team owner said... "we let our drivers race. No Team orders"... WHAT BS!!
Bunch of hypocrites! Webber had to really restrained himself from passing Vettel if he was to have any support from the team moving forward. He knows he is #2 and he knows his days at RB are numbered...
With Hamilton moving to RB next year, this will be even more interesting.
They can take each other out any time... especially with "Mr Demolition" aka "Hamilton"Great race for Ferrari, especially for Alonso... and yes I tend to agree, Hamilton should have been penalized for what he did...
This season is getting worse every weekend...I guess I am canceling Speed in the next couple of weeks... I'll give it a couple more races but I don't think this will get any better...
Carlos