zoom44

Announced this mornign by the Governor that Oregon will abide by California emissions(CARB standards) regs starting in 2009. last month Washington State also announced they would start using CARB standards IF Oregon did. so 2009 the whole west coast will be using CARB. article from last week

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/21/emi....standards.ap/

jaguargod

Will Oregon and Washington have to pay those outrageous registration fees as well? I lived in California briefly, and the fee for vehicle registration was something like 2% of my car's value, plus a one-time surcharge since my vehicle was from Texas and was not manufactured to CA emmissions standards, and if the sales tax where I purchased my car was less than what it was where I registered in CA, they required I pay the difference. Needless to say, I never registered it.

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

They really should alter emissions for construction equipment first, lawnmowers second, and leave us car enthusiasts alone.

rotary-convert

what effect if any will this have on our rotaries and future rotaries? I know mazda was able to make the renesis much cleaner than its predecessors, but how much cleaner can the wankle get without robbing even more hp?

still wishing i had the pre-production flash in my ecu

Blue87Sport

Car registration fee in WA state is a flat $30. We used to have a value based excise tax but it was killed by a taxpayer revolt initiative.

Nubo

That out-of-state vehicle "smog impact fee" was ruled unconstitutional, and the state was ordered to pay back the money, with interest. I got over $500 back.

Japan8

Glad to hear that. The damn commie state should be forced to do more than that. Sorry to those who live there and love it, but frankly I hope to NEVER live there. Too damn oppressive.

Japan8

This is all the Bush Administrations fault! I hardly believed that California should be allowed to have its own standards, and now all the other states are just following it now. All this is because the idiots on Capital Hill can't get their heads out of their asses long enough to take the iniative here... do something to help with global warming and smog... screw big business. BUt of course not...

GotBass

They put California on the left side of the country for a reason.

Japan8

LOL! An excellent point!

FoxTypeR

Uhh, motor vehicles and highway systems fall under state jurisdiction, not federal. That's why different states have different regulations and highways in certain states are better/worse than others. That's also why state speed limits and licensing regulations differ. There are general EPA regulations that are mandated, but if you take a look, most state regulations are much, MUCH less forgiving than these. Your comment is disturbing and frightening, but a clear and shining example of the lack of understanding of the US federal system both inside and outside the country.

There is a clear pollution problem in parts of California, that cannot be denied. All the privately owned motor vehicles that are on the road pump out far more pollutants and carcinogens than the comparatively small number of construction and business vehicles. Does that necessarily mean that these vehicles should be exempt from the regulations imposed on the rest of the population? No, it doesn't, but it means that these are "less important" targets in the eyes of the state regulations boards that mandate these changes. Is that right? Not in my opinion, but then again, I don't agree with 90% of the regulatory decisions that are made by any level of government, regardless of the party in power. If you're going to try and go to the highest level of power in the country, even though he has nothing to do with it, then you might as well blame God, because clearly it is His fault that the planet He designed cannot handle the actions of the people He did.

Japan8

What the hell are you talking about? People are making generalizations here... not sitting down in the legislature or even any kind of official forum for discussing the specifics and potential legality of the issue.

I think most people understand that the major of regulations are handled at the state level. Trying giving people some credit instead of making assumptions based on vague statements given on a semi-public automotive bulletin board. Which is why I specifically have said I have no interest in ever living in California. That means other states have different laws. That implies some understanding of federal - state jurisdiction. And your simple analysis easily neglects the fact that while the highway system many officially fall under state jurisdiction, the Fed can and does have some influence... it's amazing what with holding subsidies can do for you.

There's always more than one way to skin a cat. Sure... parts of California do have horrible air quality. So does Tokyo. So what? The fossil fuel burning power plant is polluting worse than cars... particularly cars built in the last 10 years. What about diesel trucks and buses? How about taxis? There are plenty of other areas that could be worked on, but instead the easy target of the "average joe" is used. Yes I do know that there are ever tightening restrictions for those others as well... but what do we always hear about in the news? You say that "All the privately owned motor vehicles that are on the road pump out far more pollutants and carcinogens than the comparatively small number of construction and business vehicles." And you're also aware that cars built in roughly the last 10 years produce less pollution than was also present in the air that they burn. California wants to clean up the air more? Make it too expensive for people to drive cars that are more than 10 years old. Does it suck that you are forced to continually buy new cars? Sure. But it will ensure that all cars on the road produce little pollution. YOu and I clearly agree on one thing... we don't agree with much of the policy decisions of the government in general. As far as party or whatever goes... who said anything about Democrats or Republicans?

Tamas

iTrader: (1)

You know, there is a good reason for everything... if it was so bad to live here, people wouldn't want to and then housing and cost of living wouldn't be as high. But alas, it is... because plenty of people WANT to live here for one reason or another, "commie" state or not.
I don't feel myself oppressed either.

By the way, registration renewal for my RX-8 costs $212 - just got the DMV letter the other day. Honestly, I have no idea how much does the same cost in other states, so I can't compare.

Dark8

What you posted earlier: "This is all the Bush Administrations fault! I hardly believed that California should be allowed to have its own standards, and now all the other states are just following it now. All this is because the idiots on Capital Hill can't get their heads out of their asses long enough to take the iniative here... do something to help with global warming and smog... screw big business. BUt of course not... "

Back to the subject. Oregon and Washington are quickly becoming California North. I've always said Oregon is about 10 years behind California in it's liberalization.

"And you're also aware that cars built in roughly the last 10 years produce less pollution than was also present in the air that they burn. California wants to clean up the air more? Make it too expensive for people to drive cars that are more than 10 years old. Does it suck that you are forced to continually buy new cars? Sure. But it will ensure that all cars on the road produce little pollution."

And for the 30% of the population that can't afford to drive new vehicles? Use mass transportation? Tell that to somebody that is on social security that lives 50 miles from the nearest bus line. Not everyone lives in the smog producing cities.

zoom44

which brings us back to the fuel cell bus http://www.fuel-cell-bus-club.com/in...ub&tid=1&pid=2 more mass transit but in a less polluting form.

wedge357

I'm not too keen on fuel cell technology at its current state. For the most part, hydrogen gas is made through electrolysis powered by burning fossil fuel, although some are made through use of renewable resources (wind, water, etc.).

Since energy cannot be transformed from one (fossil fuel) into another (hydrogen gas) 100% efficiently, this is actually a wasteful technology at this time and wrongfully seen as a "clean, alternative source of fuel".

zoom44

it advances the the use of the technology into more of a "mainstream" way of thinkign about it instead of it being the "exoctic way of the future". buses are more than big enough to use current fuel cells and storage systems. plus starts the building of the infrastructure so many people keep saying we dont have.

plus you can derive the fossil fuel thru reforming processes like that runnign right now by changing world technologies in several plants across teh country. the most famous may be the turkey offal reforming plant http://www.changingworldtech.com/

Aseras

mine cost about $35

Japan8

And where are the words Republican or Democrat? Please put them in bold, because I don't believe that they are anywhere in that quote. Why? Because like I said... I wasn't talking partisan politics or whatever. It wasn't about one party or another party... it's about the system overal being screwed up and no one doing anything other than paying lip service to fixing it. Jeez. Learn to read.

Yes I noticed. Unfortunately.

They'll work something out. Sounds cold, but you know what... they do in Japan and they do in Europe. And no Japan does not have mass transit everywhere. Mass transit only really exists for you if you live in Tokyo, Yokohama or another major city. Everyone else? They have to drive.

As far as not everyone living in smog producing cities... that's not a good line of logic. By using something like that... just because country x is small and doesn't produce much pollution (lack of cars, industry or whatever), they don't need pollution controls on their cars, whereas country y is large and pollutes a lot thus they need pollution controls on their cars. This is of course wrong. Global warming and other ecological damage isn't just because LA has crappy air. It's a "group effort."

Just take a minute and take a deep breath. Don't argue with me because I don't care for the society in California. You're probably don't like Texas and love California. That's fine... different strokes for different folks. Just don't force me to make my corner of the world like yours.

Japan8

Like I said. It's not for me. So I' won't live there. You like it... good for you. You don't feel oppressed... This isn't an age thing... it's a life experiences thing. I don't know you, so I really can't say one way or another. I can say that living abroad (particularly NOT in Europe) as non-military, non-expat, non-student teaches you a lot.

Plenty of people live in plenty of other states... Texas and Florida for example. People WANT to live there for one reason or another.

Just because people live there doesn't mean anything. Simple logical fallacy. Lots of people live in the Tokyo area. Out of a population of almost 130 million, about 30 million live in the Tokyo area. The majority come from the countryside. THere are plenty who even come from Kansai (Osaka, Kyoto, Kobe). Why? All the good jobs are in Tokyo. Why? Image. It looks good to say your main office is in Tokyo. Even the average Japanese person thinks that's stupid.

Florida is something like $35 and I believe North Carolina is something near that amount as well.

Ajax

The TCP process on changingworldtech.com is a pretty incredible one. If you think about it this way, they could empty landfills and create billions of gallons of oil and fresh water every single year as well as countless other natural resources.
Who knows what the recovery percentage is, but it's got to be better than the current 0% and the last 100 years of landfill dumping could be used to power most of the earth for another century.

It's incredible if you ask me.

Oh yea.. in texas, vehicle registration is based on age and weight. It's about $80 to register a new RX8 in texas.

Tamas

iTrader: (1)

Don't think I'm blind to the disdvantages of living in California. I even do consider moving somewhere else, mainly because I can't afford buying a new house to replace my townhome. But so far, I could not find another place in the US that would fulfill most of my criteria about the place I'd want to live. And then the fact that the weather is pretty much unbeatable plus the scenery is beautiful and things to do are plenty, and you have a pretty hard time letting all of that go...
But I will leave at some time, I'm pretty sure.

Well, I don't know you either, but I bet I had plenty of life experience, maybe even more than what you have witnessed so far. I live here as an immigrant, being born and raised in Hungary (an ex-"commie" state, if you will). So no oppression feeling for me here :D
Lived in other countries before coming to the US. So I probably saw and experienced things that many people would have a hard time to understand.

Sure... there are good reasons for both of them. Funny thing is that one of the states I considered recently to move to was Texas, but for various reasons (one major being the sucky weather) I scratched that. Florida is also hard from the same point of view (too hot and humid), plus those hurricanes scare me and they come on a pretty much regular basis.
But I like to visit - it's a nice place for sure.

Japan8

For those reasons at one time I really did want to live in California. It really does have some beautiful scenery and wonderful weather. Too bad about those crazy laws and cost of living.

Well that's makes two of us. Immigrant family too. From a "3rd world country." I have spent most of my life in the US, but that hasn't blinded me from where I came from.

Given you were in a real commie state... yeah I can see your point. I figure you can see mine though when one looks at it from the opposite perspective that this is supposed to be the US... supposed to be the land of the free...

My daily life likely contains many things that only other non-Japanese in Japan can understand. Makes for fun stories when you go out drinking...

I agree. I grew up in Florida... I "hate" that place... too hot and humid. The cost of living is great though. However the job market ain't all that. Texas would be nice, but too hot there too. You just can't win... NC or Va?

Tamas

iTrader: (1)

We strayed away pretty far from the original topic of this thread, but it's fun

Don't know those places well enough to make an educated decision. Plus, again - tornadoes... no good.

Razz1

That's the best one I've heard in a long time.