MTCD01

KC_Prelude - In that case I agree with you completely. Your original post was directed at the H1 according to the quote you used (asking why the H1 was on the list).

jonnyb

explain how one of the best car makers is overhyped

Hanzo

It is too expensive for what you get.

Zedcaster

I think what's killing Jag is Ford's use of the Taurus and the Contour platforms for their new models (S type and X type). People buy Jag for the cachet not just the name.

The Phaeton has the inverse problem. VW isn't known as a car you brag to your friends about owning.

(I can see the commercial now - a Phaeton pulls up in traffic, the tinted power window comes down, a man holds out a yellow plastic squeeze bottle and says "Pardon me...do you have any Frenchs' mustard?)

So VW, get that ego in check and rebadge your Phaeton as a Bentley, or a Lamborghini or something high end, you've got the brands to choose from.

fluque

When I saw the Phaeton at a dealer my immediate thought was who the hell would buy an $70-90k VW. ?... Last time I checked "Volkswagen" still meant "car of the people" in German.

DOMINION

"Best"?

ChuckRX8

Did you know that if you did the calculations against the premium they put on hybrids versus the cost savings in gas efficiency (relative to the non-hybrid version), it would take 6-7 years to break even?

Talk about over-hyped.

flatso

what price was gas when they calculated that?

pelucidor

If the Lexus RX400h costs $3000 more than the regular RX330 (as told to me by Lexus chap at motor show) but gives overall 30mpg instead of 20mpg (supposed to be 10-15mpg more) then at $2 per gallon of premium you would need 3000 gallons to break even.

This equates to about 90k miles which is 5-7 years for most people.

However there is currently a $2k tax credit for having a hybrid. If this applies for the first year only then you will break even after 30k miles (2 years or so). If the tax credit applies every year at $2000 then you are saving money by getting the hybrid (compared to regular RX330) midway through the second year. Sadly the tax credit will not stay at the same level every year.

On top of the tax credit you do get better acceleration and as well as releasing less pollutants (during idling) and the right to use HOV lanes in many places (e.g California) for part of that $3k extra initial cost... not to mention bragging rights and a cleaner conscience. For many the bragging rights alone are all they need to pay the $3k extra.

FamilyGuy

Is the RX400 going to get 10 mpg better AND better acceleration? That's a hell of a lot better improvement over the base model than the current hybrids and well worth it.

The current Prius is rated at mileage 60/50, costs about $21,000, and according to some owners gets mileage much lower than the official rating. A Toyota Corolla is the same size as the Prius. The $15,000 Corolla is rated at gas mileage 33/38 or so and the owners do not complain about lower than listed fuel efficiency.

By buying a Prius you pay $6,000 extra for slightly slower acceleration, higher car insurance rates, and a $2,000 tax credit.
At $2.50 per gallon and 20,000 miles of driving per year, the Prius' improved fuel efficiency doesn't equalize the costs for about 8 years - which is just in time to replace the batteries. The technology's getting better, but it isn't anything special yet.

FamilyGuy

I've seen a few Phaetons, and I think it's a sweet looking car.
I'd jump at a chance to have one.

But even the car magazines said the ones they tested were having electrical problems. How messed up is your production quality if the cars you give to professional reviewers are broken?

If I pay more than $30,000 for a new car, let alone $70,000 or $100,000 it had better last forever without a problem. I don't want the 'service engine soon' light coming on before I finish the test drive. That's obnoxious.

And 335 horsepower V8s and 445 horsepower W12s matched to automatic transmissions sounds acceptable on paper until you mount them in a 5400 pound vehicle.

This is the Mercury Marauder foulup, done on a massive scale.

flatso

one more reason not to buy a hybrid they electrocute you

Formula 420

the target buyers all died of old age before the car was released.

DOMINION

LMAO!!!

Feras

iTrader: (1)

the volkswagen R32 imo is pretty over the top. Before I bought my RX8 i shopped around and strolled in to the VW shop to test out this amazing new thing from germany that all the car magazines were going nuts over, and frankly its an 'ok' car in terms of comparison. Its got no looks (its a golf and it looks like a golf) its overweight, and feels sluggish especially considering that for the same price and ugliness you can get a WRX Sti and its much faster. The worst part was the sales manager who basically thought that this R32 is the second coming of Christ and was surprised and actually somewhat pissed that i didnt immediately buy it after i test drove it. Screw VW is all i say, and zoom zoom over to a mazda dealership hehe.

Got in an RX8 and never looked back