Overrated and Underrated sports car
#26
Where would the Miata fit in your list, Eric?
Sports Car = Light weight, two seater, maybe 2+2, but mostly 2-seater. Rear-wheel drive. Nimble, and fun to drive.
STI? Not a sports car. A sporting car, sure. A fast car no doubt. Not light weight, has four doors, awd.
People need to understand it's OKAY for their car to not be a 'sports car' - 'sports car' is NOT the defining label which makes a car fun, or cool, or not.
Sports Car = Light weight, two seater, maybe 2+2, but mostly 2-seater. Rear-wheel drive. Nimble, and fun to drive.
STI? Not a sports car. A sporting car, sure. A fast car no doubt. Not light weight, has four doors, awd.
People need to understand it's OKAY for their car to not be a 'sports car' - 'sports car' is NOT the defining label which makes a car fun, or cool, or not.
#27
I remember the Top Gear episode were they compair the new super cars like the Enzo, Carrera GT, and Zonda against the older supercars like the F40, XJ220 and the F1. Technology is a great thing but as shown the older super cars blitzed the new ones. The F40 has a 0-60 in 3.2 seconds and the Enzo cant even do that. So overall i think the Enzo is an unbelivable car but i think it is over rated. F40 is underrated. I think the koenigsegg CCR is underrated maybe. Its out for the F1's title and had it for a short time until lossing it to the Veyron. I dont think Christian Koengsegg will take this and in true koengsegg fashion he will up the performance that much more. Thats the point of the CCR and i like that.
#28
i think the silvia is not overated at all and deserves all the props it gets. The state side 240sx with a different non-turbo engine however is overated though still very nice. they are just not as great as the turbo silvias.
a lot of front wheel drives cars are underated. rsx and celica for example, they handle better than a lot of rwd cars out there. the type R integra and civic has been shown to outcorner the rx8 on BMI
rx8 is underated, it has a pretty bad reputation on other car forums because its slow. but people dont realize the overall balance of the car makes it one of the funnest sports car out there. power is important but isnt everything... 90% of the people dont go out and race their cars.. having fun should be more important than numbers. Beside the lack of torque, it is superior than most cars in its class for daily driving.
honda s2000 are extremely underated performers.
the 2007 v6 toyota camry will be underated, the 268hp engine will kick *** all over the place.
a lot of front wheel drives cars are underated. rsx and celica for example, they handle better than a lot of rwd cars out there. the type R integra and civic has been shown to outcorner the rx8 on BMI
rx8 is underated, it has a pretty bad reputation on other car forums because its slow. but people dont realize the overall balance of the car makes it one of the funnest sports car out there. power is important but isnt everything... 90% of the people dont go out and race their cars.. having fun should be more important than numbers. Beside the lack of torque, it is superior than most cars in its class for daily driving.
honda s2000 are extremely underated performers.
the 2007 v6 toyota camry will be underated, the 268hp engine will kick *** all over the place.
#29
Originally Posted by dmp
People need to understand it's OKAY for their car to not be a 'sports car' - 'sports car' is NOT the defining label which makes a car fun, or cool, or not.
Personally, I like cars.com's subcategories for sports cars (although I do disagree where they place some of the cars): Sporty (more show than go), High Performance (a lot of go), and Exotic.
#31
Originally Posted by sti_eric
What it comes down to is being able to differentiate between different classes of sports cars. Obviously, an RSX isn't in the same class as a Ferrari 360. But people like to call their RSX a sports car, if nothing else to attempt to put it in the same class as the 360. I also think it is very narrow-minded to not call a car like an Evo, STi, or M5 a "sports car" just because it has 4 doors.
Personally, I like cars.com's subcategories for sports cars (although I do disagree where they place some of the cars): Sporty (more show than go), High Performance (a lot of go), and Exotic.
Personally, I like cars.com's subcategories for sports cars (although I do disagree where they place some of the cars): Sporty (more show than go), High Performance (a lot of go), and Exotic.
but you act like I'm disrespecting the STI (if it's possible to disrespect a car) because I call it something 'other' than a sports car. Not the case. Just as humans come in different ethnicities, cars are different breeds.
Maybe it's just 'Sports Car is in the mind of the beholder'? I'll never consider a 4-door car a sports car because it's a 'sedan'. A Miata will ALWAYS be a sports car because it's sport, amazingly quick (in some contexts), very light, and FUN. The feeling one gets - well, the feeling I get in a miata is unlike any car I've owned; and both my current car (rx8) and my previous car (13-second Ford Probe GT) are a LOT faster in a straight line.
I think it's not so much about respecting or disrespecting a 'car' - but the car's owner. Often people want to FEEL better about themselves by calling their car a sports car. It's like a badge of honor to some people. Not insinuating you are like that; just sayin'.
#32
Originally Posted by zoom44
#33
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,086
Likes: 1
From: Misinformation Director - Evolv Chicago
I don't think I've ever heard anyone call an RSX a sports car.
A friend of mine has a GTO and last night was calling it a sports car. I disagreed and told him it was a drag car. He asked what the Mustang was, and I told him it also was a drag car. Then explained that by my definition all I was implying was that when either was designed, straightline was probably more the priority than cornering.
As far as what a sports car is...I really don't care what definition you want to apply. A fast lap time around a track is a fast lap time.
A friend of mine has a GTO and last night was calling it a sports car. I disagreed and told him it was a drag car. He asked what the Mustang was, and I told him it also was a drag car. Then explained that by my definition all I was implying was that when either was designed, straightline was probably more the priority than cornering.
As far as what a sports car is...I really don't care what definition you want to apply. A fast lap time around a track is a fast lap time.
#34
Originally Posted by Red Devil
As far as what a sports car is...I really don't care what definition you want to apply. A fast lap time around a track is a fast lap time.
And there are plenty of tracks where the GTO would turn faster lap times than an Rx8.
I think 'sports cars' aren't so much about measured tests, but 'feelings'.
#35
I definitley think that Supras are NOT overated, they are incredible! Stock they pull like .98g's on the skidpad! and run 13.1 Sec 1/4...STOCK! The stock bottom end is rated up-to 800hp...STOCK INTERNALS!
Rx-7 underated obviously for lower hp numbers, but it doesn't need as much hp to be just as fast as the others. So it is, to me although not Super Powerful, one of the greats.
I personally think the RX-7 and Supra were the greatest Japanese Super Powers.
________
CALIFORNIA DISPENSARY
Rx-7 underated obviously for lower hp numbers, but it doesn't need as much hp to be just as fast as the others. So it is, to me although not Super Powerful, one of the greats.
I personally think the RX-7 and Supra were the greatest Japanese Super Powers.
________
CALIFORNIA DISPENSARY
Last edited by dmorales; 09-09-2011 at 02:29 AM.
#36
well if you want to get technical, sports cars also have to be 2 door 2 seaters, coupe or roadster. rx8 isnt a sports car either. but why get so technical? sports car as is used to day is just a general term for performance cars.. they are all sports cars... unless you are just talking about sports cars in the purest sense like the s2k, 350z and vette etc, then rx8 dosnt qualify either. If rx8 is a sports car then so is mustang and GTO and rxs etc. no point getting so technical with the term
Last edited by playdoh43; 02-02-2006 at 11:35 AM.
#37
Originally Posted by dmp
but you act like I'm disrespecting the STI (if it's possible to disrespect a car) because I call it something 'other' than a sports car. Not the case. Just as humans come in different ethnicities, cars are different breeds.
Maybe it's just 'Sports Car is in the mind of the beholder'? I'll never consider a 4-door car a sports car because it's a 'sedan'. A Miata will ALWAYS be a sports car because it's sport, amazingly quick (in some contexts), very light, and FUN. The feeling one gets - well, the feeling I get in a miata is unlike any car I've owned; and both my current car (rx8) and my previous car (13-second Ford Probe GT) are a LOT faster in a straight line.
I think it's not so much about respecting or disrespecting a 'car' - but the car's owner. Often people want to FEEL better about themselves by calling their car a sports car. It's like a badge of honor to some people. Not insinuating you are like that; just sayin'.
Maybe it's just 'Sports Car is in the mind of the beholder'? I'll never consider a 4-door car a sports car because it's a 'sedan'. A Miata will ALWAYS be a sports car because it's sport, amazingly quick (in some contexts), very light, and FUN. The feeling one gets - well, the feeling I get in a miata is unlike any car I've owned; and both my current car (rx8) and my previous car (13-second Ford Probe GT) are a LOT faster in a straight line.
I think it's not so much about respecting or disrespecting a 'car' - but the car's owner. Often people want to FEEL better about themselves by calling their car a sports car. It's like a badge of honor to some people. Not insinuating you are like that; just sayin'.
Anyway, my feeling is that the many of today's so-called sports cars have lost the "sport" part of it. It seems that any car that is 2 doors is now a sports car, regardless of performance.
Again, just for reference, I have an STi and an RX-8. These cars are in completely different categories. STi = more go than show = high performance sports car. RX-8 = more go than show = sporty 2 door (I'm sure I'll get flamed for this).
If you take a look at Zoom44's thread on UK "sports car" sales, he posted a pdf from smmt that should UK sales by segment. For passenger cars, there are 6 segments: Mini, Supermini, Lower Medium, Upper Medium, Executive, and Luxury. But, there is only one category for sports cars. IMO, just like they do for passenger cars, they should split the sports cars into different categories, for example: sporty 2 doors, high performance, and exotic. Just like you don't put a Mercedes S500 in the same class as a Hyundai Sonata, you don't put a Corvette in the same class as a Mini Cooper.
#39
Originally Posted by sti_eric
RX-8 = more go than show = sporty 2 door (I'm sure I'll get flamed for this).
Last edited by Ike; 02-02-2006 at 12:02 PM.
#40
To make myself clear - I'm trying to teach people to remove 'horsepower' or '1/4 mile' times/trap speeds from their definition of what constitutes a sports car.
For the Record, some magazines have both the RX8 and MX5 rated at 70.x mph in their 700ft Slalom. Going by 'just the nubmers' the RX8 SHOULD be a sports car. I don't go by 'numbers' much, though.
MX5 = Sports Car
Sedans = Not sports cars.
RX8 = Not sure yet, but i'm leaning towards 'no'.
For the Record, some magazines have both the RX8 and MX5 rated at 70.x mph in their 700ft Slalom. Going by 'just the nubmers' the RX8 SHOULD be a sports car. I don't go by 'numbers' much, though.
MX5 = Sports Car
Sedans = Not sports cars.
RX8 = Not sure yet, but i'm leaning towards 'no'.
#41
you are crystal clear to me.
lots of others lean the other way dmp
lots of others lean the other way dmp
Originally Posted by zoom44
it is most certainly a sports car
from http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/comp...39/page003.html
If the RX-8 represents the future of the sports car, we can't wait to see what's next. The Z may be faster, but the Rx-8 is the better sportscar
consumer reports call it a sports car
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...handles+sports
C&D
Verdict: if you are a sports car enthusiast who needs 4 seats your car has arrived.
his new RX-8, it embodies an unusual concept: the four-seat sports car.
It's easy to say four-seat sports car, but what does it mean? In this case, it means feeling light and nimble, turning in like a race car, and resisting roll in corners. It means splitting its mass 50/50 over the front and rear axles and crouching on an independent suspension all around, with rear toe-control links to keep the tail from wagging the dog.
some canadian news paper
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...handles+sports
- Configuration: Four-passenger rear wheel drive sports car
netscape autos top 5 sportscars
http://channels.netscape.com/autos/g...be3f83&photo=1
Road and Track gets final say with a quote from its article entitled "Real sports cars arent supposed to have 4 doors. This one does.
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...tid=1378&stc=1
from http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/comp...39/page003.html
If the RX-8 represents the future of the sports car, we can't wait to see what's next. The Z may be faster, but the Rx-8 is the better sportscar
consumer reports call it a sports car
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...handles+sports
C&D
Verdict: if you are a sports car enthusiast who needs 4 seats your car has arrived.
his new RX-8, it embodies an unusual concept: the four-seat sports car.
It's easy to say four-seat sports car, but what does it mean? In this case, it means feeling light and nimble, turning in like a race car, and resisting roll in corners. It means splitting its mass 50/50 over the front and rear axles and crouching on an independent suspension all around, with rear toe-control links to keep the tail from wagging the dog.
some canadian news paper
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...handles+sports
- Configuration: Four-passenger rear wheel drive sports car
netscape autos top 5 sportscars
http://channels.netscape.com/autos/g...be3f83&photo=1
Road and Track gets final say with a quote from its article entitled "Real sports cars arent supposed to have 4 doors. This one does.
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...tid=1378&stc=1
#44
Originally Posted by dmp
Eric, is a Miata a sports car?
Here is a pretty good website that shows lap times at Hockenheim for different cars: http://www.track-challenge.com
The MX-5 is near the bottom as far as lap times go (1:24-1:25). It's lap times are in the same area as VW GTI, Mini Cooper S, Audi A3, Toyota MR2, MB C230, etc, behind the 1:20 of the RX-8, 1:17.9 of the 2.0L STi, 1:17.2 of the Evo VIII.
#48
I like the Wikipedia definition of "Sports car" (basically what dmp was saying):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_car
So now if you take away the RX-8s "sports car" title for having more than 2 doors and more than 2 seats, you should take away the STI and EVO for not having "good looks"
A sports car is a type of automobile designed for sporting performance.
While opinions differ as to the exact definition, most sports cars have two seats and two doors, and are designed to provide excellent acceleration, top speed, and good looks.
When it comes to actual Sports car racing and the needs for braking, maneuverability, low weight, reliability etc., the philosophies differ. While some brands like Porsche always have built cars that are raced, others like Lamborghini never were intended nor suitable for competitions. Most current so-called sports cars have to be considered luxury cars, with many options and high weight, as few customers are willing to sacrifice comfort or noise deafening.
Great emphasis is often placed on handling—the ability of the driver to remain in control of the car under challenging conditions such as when the car's tires begin to lose their grip on corners.
A car may be sporting without being a sports car. Performance modifications of regular cars, such as muscle cars, hot hatches and the like do not generally fall in the pure sports car territory.
A large, powerful engine is not required; many of the early British sports cars lacked a powerful engine and did not accelerate as quickly as, say, muscle cars, but were known for having exceptional handling characteristics due to their combination of light weight, carefully engineered/balanced chassis and innovative suspension designs. Lotus is often cited as an example of this approach. On tight, twisting roads, such a car has higher effective performance than a heavier, more powerful car with less cornering ability.
In many situations, the term "sports car" is used to refer to any car with more power or performance than is typical for cars in general. Often vehicles in the muscle car, performance sedan/saloon or grand tourer (GT) category are referred to as sports cars even though they tend to lack the light weight and excellent handling characteristics of a true sports car.
While opinions differ as to the exact definition, most sports cars have two seats and two doors, and are designed to provide excellent acceleration, top speed, and good looks.
When it comes to actual Sports car racing and the needs for braking, maneuverability, low weight, reliability etc., the philosophies differ. While some brands like Porsche always have built cars that are raced, others like Lamborghini never were intended nor suitable for competitions. Most current so-called sports cars have to be considered luxury cars, with many options and high weight, as few customers are willing to sacrifice comfort or noise deafening.
Great emphasis is often placed on handling—the ability of the driver to remain in control of the car under challenging conditions such as when the car's tires begin to lose their grip on corners.
A car may be sporting without being a sports car. Performance modifications of regular cars, such as muscle cars, hot hatches and the like do not generally fall in the pure sports car territory.
A large, powerful engine is not required; many of the early British sports cars lacked a powerful engine and did not accelerate as quickly as, say, muscle cars, but were known for having exceptional handling characteristics due to their combination of light weight, carefully engineered/balanced chassis and innovative suspension designs. Lotus is often cited as an example of this approach. On tight, twisting roads, such a car has higher effective performance than a heavier, more powerful car with less cornering ability.
In many situations, the term "sports car" is used to refer to any car with more power or performance than is typical for cars in general. Often vehicles in the muscle car, performance sedan/saloon or grand tourer (GT) category are referred to as sports cars even though they tend to lack the light weight and excellent handling characteristics of a true sports car.
So now if you take away the RX-8s "sports car" title for having more than 2 doors and more than 2 seats, you should take away the STI and EVO for not having "good looks"
Last edited by khtm; 02-02-2006 at 02:03 PM.
#49
I'm surprised nobody mentioned the NSX. A lot of people on here will disagree with me, but I think the NSX is underrated. Like the RX-8, the NSX is no torque monster. This car is about balance. Sure, the current NSX is outdated by todays standards, but where else can you find near supercar performance with Honda drivability in the 90's?
#50
Darin, there's something about which we can agree! Sports cars started with cars like the Morgan and the early MGs. Two seat roadsters. Personally, I wouldn't go a long way beyond that and still include it as a sports car, although there certainly are some hard-tops I'd call sports cars. But just because I don't think a particular car is a "sports car" is not to say that I think that it's not a cool car, or a very fun car to own and drive.
For instance, I was pleased to see a mention of the Toyota Celica GT4, which sold in this country as the Celica All-Trac. While I don't know that I'd call it a "sports car," they're really cool cars, and very strong. We didn't get the ST-205 version the rest of the world got (perhaps the 12 or so 1993 ST-185s that sold in the US convinced Toyota that the US was not the optimal market for those things), but there still are a few thousand ST-165s and ST-185s around. They're a PITA to keep working well, in part because previous owners often abused them, but they are very strong, and quite easy to build into real beasts.
Fun thread.
For instance, I was pleased to see a mention of the Toyota Celica GT4, which sold in this country as the Celica All-Trac. While I don't know that I'd call it a "sports car," they're really cool cars, and very strong. We didn't get the ST-205 version the rest of the world got (perhaps the 12 or so 1993 ST-185s that sold in the US convinced Toyota that the US was not the optimal market for those things), but there still are a few thousand ST-165s and ST-185s around. They're a PITA to keep working well, in part because previous owners often abused them, but they are very strong, and quite easy to build into real beasts.
Fun thread.