snizzle

I don't know how they could fit an SS in the lineup anymore actually. Where would they position it in relation to the Vette and GT500. You would think the SS would have to attempt to compete with the GT500 but that would put it too close into Vette territory. Lutz mentioned in an interview that they always have the LS7 on tap but I doubt we'll see in in the Camaro.

Rootski

iTrader: (1)

The Miata, however, has also gained power to match. This generation (NC) is the fattest, yet fastest, Miata to date, even beating the NB Mazdaspeed.

rx8wannahave

Yeah, that is a problem...IF, it was light I think it could match the GT500 with only 400HP considering the GT500 comes in at 3,900 pounds (that's one FAT horse, lol).

The GT500 so far has only (only because 500HP should equal better times but as stated it's heavy) hit 12.7's in the 1/4 mile while that is still pretty dang fast.

Maybe...but that does pose a problem. So...the question is, should the Z06 be the standard Vette? Then...some crazy monster (like the Blue Devil) be the Z06? So...the Camaro could play in the high 12's without upsetting it's brother within GM? Should the Camaro even attempt to chase the GT500 considering it's no longer a Pony car at that price range (to me at least)? I think Ford forced their hand, but I would be happy with a faster and better looking Z28 vs the GT instead of going after the GT500.

40-44K is way past what the original Pony was created to be.

dillsrotary

^^ i think if the new camaro is as fast for just a tenth of a sec slower it wouldn't effect vette sales.

Japan8

I've seen used 2005 GT's for $24-28k. New GT's were starting at $25k-ish I thought.

I wouldn't buy a Saleen Mustang... to expensive. THere are plenty of other cars out there that I'd rather have. If you're going to go Mustang... get a GT and add-on a Saleen or Kenne Bell S/C. Pickup a Ford Racing, Saleen, Rousch or Steeda suspension kit and cat-back... and you are setup to go. Your own GT500 at much less the price.

dillsrotary

rumor has it on the ls1tech forums is that the camaro will might get the same 6.2 liter from the new escalade and a rumored detuned ls7 engine from the zo6 for small and large v8 options. plus the new escalade ran a 14.9 1/4 with the new engine and it freakin weighs 5800 pounds.

snizzle

Also without a warranty. How much is that worth to you?

Japan8

^^ Uh no. Try researching first. The Saleen S/C, Suspension kit, etc. comes with full factory warranty. Supposedly it is more efficient than Kenne Bell which is why it runs a smaller compressor and less boost too. Kenne Bell puts out more power "as-is" without mods and comes with a full warranty, but it may void your factory warranty... I'll have to double check to be sure, but I am 100% positive about the Saleen.

dillsrotary

saleen is %100 warranty, only certified ford dealers can sell them brand new.

SSJ 909

Another reason why I wont buy this piece of ****.
Dont get me wrong I used to LOVE camaros and owned a 98.
But aside from looks they are str8 up pieces of crap from a technical aspect.

Japan8

^^ explain this. With no explanation you frankly sound like an idiot. The GM LS series engine is actually quite advanced and produces some amazing hp numbers while offering a compact and light engine. The Ford MOD engines run very advanced ECU's, incorporate eveyrthing from variable timing and electronic TB and a very advanced ECU...

snizzle

I stand corrected. Didn't realize you'd keep your factory warranty w/a Saleen kit add-on installed by whoever after the purchase of the GT. Obviously you would have a warranty if you bought a Saleen Mustang directly from Ford.

Try being less of an ***.

Japan8

The same can easily be said of you. You don't have to like the Mustang... everyone is welcome to their own opinions, but you don't have to be an *** about it.

snizzle

I don't see where I bashed the Mustang in this thread. I'd like to see the Mustang get some competition again hence my statement about a new Z being faster than the GT which historically has been true anyway.

I assumed (yes, it was a mistake) that adding a S/C would void the warranty and in most cases w/most cars it would. I hear a lot of suggestions that people add FI to a brand new car to make it competitive w/another but often they leave out that it'll void the mfg warranty. How many people here do you think are waiting to add FI once their warranty is up? I can't know everything about every car in the world. People come to a forum like this to learn.... at least I do.

I apologize if I offended you in some way.

rx8wannahave

Come on guys, let's all remove the "***"....in our association together, LOL...

Personally, Japan8...I wouldn't buy a GT500 either. I just don't think that the GT500 is true to it's heritage of being a affordable sports car or muscle car. Don't get me wrong, YES...the GT500 is worth that price with the HUGE engine it has but I just would not spend that much money on a Mustang.

That's why I don't care if the next Camaro is faster than the GT500, only that it outperforms at the same price in every performance category (and looks) the Mustang GT….or at least matches it.

I have no ill will towards the Mustang, but I was disappointed by it's production look (and that *** that does not stop going and going and going), near useless rear seats, poor door panel quality, blah blah dash, and of course the weight.

Now, with that said slap a aftermarket body kit on the Mustang and it looks MEAN AS HECK and for it's price it performs pretty dang good, almost the best bang for your buck performance car at 25K (I think the EVO RS at 26K beats it out by a hair).

But, back to the Camaro...I know the older ones where pretty crappy but I hope that GM is smart enough to realize by now that crap, while it might sell based on looks and performance...will eventually disappoint it's owners with poor quality and/or reliability.

Mr. Lutz....DO NOT ALLOW THIS THING TO GO OVER 3400 pounds!!!! (like he reads this, lol)

Japan8

Actually I should apologize... I mixed up a post from you and SSJ 909. You didn't bash the Mustang... at least in this thread.

I think that is one of the strong points of the Mustang... not only the variety of parts available for all model years, but also the fact that you can get Saleen parts for it and retain your factory warranty. That is a big one for some (myself included) when itcomes to modding your daily driver (that and reliability of the mod).

SSJ 909

Granted it gives a lot of hp but so what, there are many factors that go into making up a car rather than just hp.
Its handling sucked, turns were disgustingly wide, shifting was rough, lots of wasted space for such a large car ie: no room inside, the light rear of the car allowed it to slip out from under you very easily...

therm8

Mine handled just fine, and the rear, though it liked to get a little sideways, was easily controllable. The only time I lost control was when I snapped the front, right tie rod, and I still kept in on the road (though I was backwards there for a time). I loved the space. Who's toting around rear passengers in an F-bod anyway? Plenty of room for any shopping or road trip, golf outing, etc.

A couple of hundred extra pounds won't kill the new one. It'll still outrun any Ls1 mod for mod. A Mustang GT won't keep up. And with proper suspension and it's wide track, it'll still handle just fine. The GTO handles pretty well, and weighs more than the Camaro will.

Japan8

^^ ditto that. Myself or SO/wife has owned Sentra SE-R, 200SX SE-R, Prelude Si, Familia S-Wagon Sport20/ Protege5... coming from all of that... I've owned a 90 Mustang LX 5.0 (now a project car at my parents' house). I thought it'd be all torque and horsepower with no handling. Wrong. It's definitely no Miata, but it sure as hell isn't a Lincoln Town Car. Like the F-body the rear can get a little wiley at times, but it's predictable and easily controlled. The use of space on the fox platform was quite good actually and... i actually agree with you about the new Mustang. It's a big car with a long ***... and should have more passenger room (front and especially rear). Weight is ok (not great, but could be worse) until we get to the GT500... too freakin heavy. Like I said to bascho before... Ford was dumb to use the iron block from the Triton engine instead of the aluminum block from the Ford GT (but with wet sump instead). Costs wouldn't be an issue if they used an NA version of this block in a new Mach1/Bullet/etc. model that goes inbetween the GT and SVT model... and maybe in an upcoming Lincoln car as well. Oh well...

Shifting... buy a shift kit. Problem solved. Better handling? Buy Steeda, Saleen, Rousch, Ford Racing, etc. There are plenty of parts. The Mustang isn't a finished package... it's a "bang for the buck" with lots of potential. See the potential, not criticize what's in front of you now.

rx8wannahave

^So, then maybe it would be best to get the GT...cut about 100 pounds off the car, add some handling parts and a SC and call it a day.

I wonder if a 400HP 3400 pound Mustang could beat a 3900 pound 500HP GT500? Well, probably not but you probably could have it near GT500 speeds for MUCH less money.

Where is Bashco in all of this?

Note: The new MT mag has a story on the GT500 and they really liked it, but I was disapointed they really didn't complain much about it's weight. Any other sports car and they would have highlighted it's gross fat problem in every page.

Japan8

^ definitely. Pickup a GT, get a suspension package, light forged rims, sticky rubber, CF or FRP hood and trunk lid plus add a Saleen S/C and full exhaust system... you'll see some awesome times. The car should hang with a GT500. Drop on a smaller pulley (more boost) and it should start to dog one.

rx8wannahave

^that's what I love about piston engines compared to my beloved rotary, it's just so easy to pull out more power with bolt on parts....even without a SC/Turbo.

But...I think I'm going to save up and go with the Scott 5psi 300WHP method, if I keep my 8 permanently. But...that wont happen anytime soon so...I'll keep dreaming.