rotary crazy

because if they do, then they wont be able to make a RX-3 and a RX-7 :D and the MX-5 sales very well as it is.

zoom44

oh good popint on the mazda3.

rotary crazy

ZOOM I now you guys have inside info on this, how about a hint? I wont tell anyone

Tokyo auto show maybe, svenstock8?

my sources say if everything goes acording to plan we might see somthin in tokyo.

Lschiavo

Looks Like ****!

zoom44

only that you might have had a bit of insight concerning the theme of 7stock. not promising anything. something will be shown at tokyo id bet money on that. of course im cheap so itd only be a buck

rotary crazy

I bet a buck on it too :D

Pkskull77

I knew i should have qualified my statement! I agree that some of Mazda's design elements are cutting edge, but when it comes to actual performance their cars are very conservative.

Take for instance last years Mazda Speed Miatia. This car could have been insanely fast, but instead of really pushing the envelope, they put in a tubro charger that really didn't put out the additional power that would have moved units. The MS 6 is another example. This car is entering a market occupied by the STI and EVO. Mazda knows what these cars can do, so they enter the market with a car that is substantially slower than both of them. Why? Because Mazda has made a conscious decision to market towards a more conservative consumer. Therefore their cars are more conservative.

I know the next argument, “There is nothing conservative about the 8’s engine, it’s the only rotary on the road.” I can’t argue with that statement, but the Rensis underachieves for the category of car it falls into. Had they been able to duplicate the performance of Nissan’s 3.5 liter, then that would have been a different story. All in all, sometimes not being conservative is about the bottom line and not how you got there. I can think of no better example of this than the RX-8. Mazda was so concerned about appealing to a more conservative crowd that they made the car with 4 doors. This way all those grown up Rotary heads could chuck their kids in the back. Were they right? I don't think so, and I believe a lack of sales validates my conclusion

I just wish the company would toss caution to the wind, and really show their engineering capabilities by putting out a car that really wows people. Unfortunately, Mazda is to concerned with their half A#$ corporate image to realize that they are really missing the mark.

zoom44

thanks for that. i think you have made some valid points there.

Pkskull77

I can't tell if your being sarcastic or not?!

zoom44

no dead serious. i think you have a good point really. while they are doing good things design wise with packaging and interiors etc multilink rear suspensions to maximize space and for handling etc. you are right that they seem to be being conservative on the power side. I wonder if that is because of funds or where the funds are coming from? they are as good company with great engineers. they are in better shape that mitsubishi financially so why not go all out on some cars like the madaspeeds?Really show they can whip the competition.

kind of reminds me of ford mustang- always slightly behind in power against the camaro.

the other major problems i see is a dealer network( they are workign onthis) that is blase about the line up and really minimal advertising when compared to rivals. i mean the Mazda3 is outselling civic in many areas. its gettign picked constantly in reviews over its competitors. where are the ads? i havent seen an 8 commercial since the hug- and yet i am seeing other companies copy the classic Mazda commercial driving around in the desert. where is the 8 ad like that?

rotary crazy

agreed, they could be doing some thins difrent, at least give their cars comparable or -15 hp to the competicion.

Pkskull77

I will be the first to tell you that the hp wars have gotten silly, but every year since the Z has been realeased its gained a couple ponies. Why is the 8 still stuck where it began? Sometimes it feels like they have really given up on the car.

rotary crazy

I agreed to some degree, I think they are working on the problem at the beginig of 2004 must rx-8 dyno at 170s now almost all I see are in the 190s, maybe im wrong but thats how I see it, you cant up the horse power when your power is down to begin with you get the hp back and then try to up the hp.

But lets not turn this into another HP threat.

A 2800lbs coupe with the renesis should be great, but I hear no RX-3, but i do a RX-8 coupe.

Labop

There was one other commercial with an 8 in it. It's the one with the whole Mazda line up, it pans and the 8 is in front. I see the print version of it a lot. It seems that most of the ads for 8 are in print instead of commercial.

Red Devil

But would this RX-8 coupe have four seats? If so, how does that not cross paths with the current RX-8?

The only things I consistently think Mazda should do is to start really matching the competition within the RX-8 price segment. And I think that means a stiffer suspension option, and definitely a jump in power. Nothing outrageous, but something that puts the car squarely in the high 13's-14 flat in the 1/4. I've heard all the arguments about how Mazda isn't interested in the hp wars. Well, if you want to sell to Americans - tough. Most Americans want to hear big hp numbers and low 0-60 / 1/4 mile times to stroke their ego. I'm aware of how capable the 8 is at the track, but again, most Americans don't care. They will never track their cars.

As for another RX-7, the RX-8 is more than capable of holding it's own with just a few modifications, if any, at the track. We've already seen this. I think they should take a page from Acura/Honda and build another RX-7 like the NSX. Accept they won't sell many, but make it a true halo car that will build interest in the brand. An RX-7 that can compete with say a CarreraS.

TheColonel

Interesting point, brining up the Camaro and the Mustang. I've driven both and I have an '02 Z28. It's an incredible car and if you know how to drive it, will blow the doors off a mustang. GM claimed 310hp stock. Big. Fat. Lie. Try 340 or 345. The car is actually faster than tGM claimed and for about $1000 more in parts you have a 400hp monster so why did it die? It was made to be a ***** out sports car for very little money and as car enthusiats we must accept that these cars are rarely money makers. Most people don't want a car that's designed for all out performance. Designing a car this way requires sacraficing comfort or raising the cost to produce and thus the price. Could Mazda have made a 450hp twin turbo RX-8 w/ an interior that rivals a Bently? Sure they could, only it would cost $100,000 at the minimum to be profitable.

Also, let's remember that Ford has it's evil hand on Mazda now too. Ford doesn't really care if Mazda brings glory to itself in the world of motorsports. All it wants is to see it's 33% of Mazda's stock to be profitable and make it some money so it can make more Ford GT's (which all apparently have MAJOR defects) and new Mustangs.

On that note, I think that a rotary powered sports car that was inexpensive, and perhaps didn't have the interior refinement or superior ride refinement and as cheap to produce and sell would probably attract attention. Besides, they need something new and intriguing in the ~$20k sporty segment as if I was going to buy a little sport coupe for that kind of money in the next year, I'd be looking at the new Saturn SKy or the Solstice.

Don Vito

Nooooo! Stupid Mazda, I'll design a nice Millenia for them dammit!

RX-Hachi

Well, I'm willing to bet more than a buck that at least one of the following will debut at the Tokyo Auto show in October:
1) Prototype MS RX-8
2) RX-? 2 seater coupe "concept" car
3) RX-8 rag top

therm8

Seems to me, that Mazda is trying to build driver oriented cars that fullfill much more than the 'need' for horsepower. It really is all about the driving experience. The Z was a complete turn-off for me after the test drive, because of the lack of driving experience. It would be nice, if the 8 were more friendly to mods. But thought the rotary engine is a mechanically simple device, getting it to run within federal regulation restrictions is apparently quite the complicated process. Mazda has never been a participant in the horsepower wars, even with the FD (which was still one of the best drives you could get for the price). The upcoming MS6 is in no way a competitor for STi's and Evo's, it's aimed at a more "mature" driver, who doesn't buy a car based on peak horsepower numbers.


IMO

Pkskull77

Good points, and the key to having a car like that is not to mass produce it, but just make enough to sell. Having a hopped up Sports car brings notoriety to the brand. This brings people into the show room, and instills them with confidence in your engineering capabilities. If you make to many super cars, then your going to loose a lot of money.

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

hmm, Mitsubishi has the legendary Evo, yet it is still in financial troubles and struggle to gain market share. They have the so-called 'halo car' well established, why aren't there more Evo's sold??

Pkskull77

I really wouldn't call the EVO a Super Sports Car. The car only cost 28 g's, and its not a broad appeal sports car. When Mitsu was flourishing they had the VR-4, and that was definitely a Halo car.

I would also like to point out that I never said a Halo car would solve all your problems. If your cars are crap, or you lack innovation then your not going to sell cars. Besides the Evo Mitsu has not put out one car that really gets you excited, and that’s why they don't sell cars.

Admittedly many companies make it without a Halo car, but it can be a big help. If I'm near a chevy dealership, I would probably stop in and take a look at the latest Vett. Once they got me in the showroom, I'm that much closer to buying a Chevy. Not going to happen in my case, but with others it works.

rotary crazy

Let me get this streigt, if mazda makes a coupe cheper than the RX-8 is going to be in competicion with the 8 or is going to complement the line?, seems to work for nissan g35, g35c and 350z a 4 door,a coupe and a sports car and they all sell. my opinion the coupe mazda should make is in competicion with the scion tc or something like that. let the kids get to now the rotary that way wen they are older and have more money they can buy RX-7 and other rotary cars.

Red Devil

^^
That was my question before. I think an inexpensive two seater could work, but how does that conflict with the MX-5? Would enough of the public want a rotary to get that instead? I really don't think so. That said, the 8 really isn't that expensive. if they made a four seater coupe, how many compromises would there be? Used 8's also can be had with extended warranties for much less than original MSRP. What would keep a buyer from getting a cheaper RX-3 when they could get a higher level used but warranteed RX-8?

Then again, such things have worked before with the 240SX to the 300ZX.

rotary crazy

The same reason people buy new mazda3 insteat of used mazda6, and you can see the # tne mazda3 sell :D