Ike

Someone who makes a statement like "goodbye RX-8 hello torque" maybe?

bmcc49er

Totally disagree. Posers that are stuck in the 80s some status symbol car maters. Hello, you drive a freaking Mazda not a Masserati. When I buy a car I look for fun to drive first, practicality second, what others think isn't even a consideration. Gone are the days of power lunches and power suits.


Agreed and those who bought an 8 had the means to buy the other cars mentioned. Just because looks are important to alot of people doesn't mean they are posers. I want to get in a car that is fun to drive and looks great. When I take 3 hours out of my day to detail a car I want to be satisfied with the results and a srt or sti clean as a whistle does nothing for me. If looks weren't a important factor in MOST people's car buying decisions then we could put the best performance into a ugly shell. Why bother to pimp my ride when looks don't matter? Looks matter alot to nonposers other then apparantly you.

Ike

I agree, don't read into what I say. I'm not saying just because someone bought an RX-8 they are a poser, I'm talking about someone that buys something because they think it will improve their status or image in some way. Besides being pretty the RX-8 is a very fun car. But again like so many have pointed out, looks are subjective. There are plenty of people out there that don't like the looks of the RX-8, just as there are plenty that like the looks of the STi and SRT-4. I like the looks of my WRX, I didn't buy a car that I thought was ugly, but looks were not the most important factor in my decision. In general I like sleepers, cars that ae much faster than they look, not the other way around. Lastly, none of the cars mentioned are much of a status symbol or overly classy if you ask me.

bmcc49er

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. Of course I read it as people who like looks are posers. Like I posted the other day, some people like the looks of the Honda Element or the Chevy Avalanche, two ugly vehicles imo but looks are probably at the top of the list for most buyers, at least in the top two for most along with practicality. Excessive speed unless you race really shouldn't matter because most of people's driving is done in traffic. The 8 handles great, looks great and won't exactly give you any trouble acclerating onto a highway or passing someone.

raji

i promise i'll leave this thread alone after this question.

Why did nobody suggest installing the Greddy turbo kit on the 8?

BlueEyes

It's a fantasssyyyy! haha no. I think that kit just came out, if it is out for public consumption yet. It's the first kit of (cross your fingers) many, so I think a lot of people just what to feel out the market and wait for some competition before they drop thousands.

Pete

Resale value is gone.


I've driven my friend SRT and wasen't impressed at all with the handling .

He drove my 8 and was surprised at how well it hangs onto the corners.

Of course I told him his car was good on the striaght line. But thats all it has going for it .

cas2themoe

Ike every time you think your right. And nobody is going to be able to change that. You'll always be right in your eyes. And your wrong a lot of the time but think your opinions are what everyone should follow. I did have the AT at the time I beat the Crossfire. Was he racing? I cant tell for sure but it wasn't like I took off and he just stood back there. I was close to 120mph. But that's not racing right? As for the Crossfire forums, once again that wasn't me and I still think it was either you or RX8lover doing that to get at me. You obviously have no taste in MY EYES. Dude you drive a regular WRX, its ugly, in my opinion and many others. But its better looking than the SRT-4. Both have power but are pure ugly and most will agree. And I've heard that many of times about both the SRT-4 and WRX and EVO. Fast and Ugly. I would only get a car such as that if I was going to be at a race track all day.

Ike your so into racing why don't you show everyone your time slips from your WRX? Your trying to knock me for something that I can't prove. So why don't you prove yourself? But you don't need to right but everyone else does, right! So stop bashing everyone who says they has done something and then not believing them, because you don't believe it.

Put it this way. Would you date a women that is just looking or a women that is good looking and intelligent? As I see it with the EVO, SRT-4 and WRX you get the power with very little exterior styling. In my eyes with the RX8, you get good power, with beautiful styling and comfort. And its not just the RX8 Forum that says so. Almost every magazine, car show and review for the RX8 has said so.

I know you need to have the last word so you may start now, I'll listen...............................

Mugatu

iTrader: (1)

I can't wait for Ike to reply to this one...........

Steiner

This is way off topic now...

raji...did Mazda let you test drive an RX-8 yet?

misterwilson007

get the 8..............you'll be pleased

Ike

After having two threads closed for a story about street racing, and being laughed at by several RX-8 owners he posts this...
https://www.rx8club.com/polls-70/crossfire-vs-rx8-24281/

Then this nonsense... You need to be a member to view the Crossfire forums now and I'm not one and don't want to bother signing up. If you're really bored and want to find the old thread that Cas made there it's hilarious.
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...5&pagenumber=4


I don't know why you would think it was me or RX8lover since you've already talked to the guy that took your user name on the Crossfire forums. Funny thing is he was from the same location as you, had the same profession in his profile, and even the same IP adress, and you still denied it. I would have just dropped it but you had to go and accuse me of setting you up.
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...067#post352067

"I know what your talking about because I have already talked to the dude who decided to ride off of my member name. He said he got that name from his friends, while I got it from a book I read back in high school!"

Then there are the countless times you went on and on about how fast the AT RX-8 is and defending it and spreading nonsense about it in a majority of your posts on this site. Then this...
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/trading-auto-8-manual-8-a-32941/

Now Cas, why would I post something that I think is wrong, of course I think I'm right when I post something. Now maybe you could stop with the fallacies and actually prove to me where I've been wrong. Not saying I've never been wrong, and there have even been times when I've admitted being wrong on this site and will continue to do so if someone provides info to show that I'm wrong.

What do I have to prove Cas, what do timeslips have to do with this thread? I'm not making any claims that I need to backup, when I do make claims I will back it up if asked to...

Lastly, you keep bringing up women for some reason. I realize you're a horndog college student but we're talking about cars here.

BlueEyes

haha, the whole argument about the 8's 'tiptronic' being faster than manual and as fast as porsche and f1 is awesome!!

It's akin to saying because my car has an engine it is a fast as a porsche and a f1 car.

Ike

Yeah, lets get it back on topic. Cas, if you want to continue this feel free to PM me.


I think it's funny how everyone claims to hate the SRT-4 because it's ugly or "just a Neon". But the emotions that this cars stirs are remarkable, much like the STi and Evo. Some people just can't stand the performance these cars offer for the price so they feel the need to bash silly/subjective things like looks and interiors at every opportunity and vigilantly defend the honor of their cars against them.

If I had to chose between the RX-8 or SRT-4 I'm not really sure what I'd do, neither are the car for me. But I like and respect what each can do and there is no shame in respecting other cars besides your own, I'll never understand the blind loyalty some people have to their cars. For some reason some people have the need to continually justify the purchase of their automobile.

Raj, they are both nice cars with very different feels and purposes, just decide what is best for you and what will make you happy in the long run. I think there is some good advice in this thread, you just have to wade through a lot of BS to find it.

As for why no one brought up turboing the RX-8 I think there are a lot of reasons... No warranty, no one knows how well the renesis will hold up with boost. Regardless of how well it does turboing an N/A is kinda scary, it will never be as reliable as a factory FI car, and heavily modfied cars can be a real hassle. You mentioned you would struggle to afford an RX-8, by no means should you consider for a second turboing it if that's the case. If you put a turbo on an N/A car you really should have the funds laying around to rebuild an engine and drivetrain, because there's a good chance at some point you will have to.

raji

tomorrow!! tomorrow!! I love you!! tomorrow!! haha damn that was cheesy. But yes, tomorrow... :D

Ike & BlueEyes, thanks for the comments about the turbo kits for the 8. I just hadn't thought of the possibility until a few days ago and decided to visit the performance section of the forum to see if there had been any progress on everyone's dreams. I was pleasantly surprised to see that there was indeed a turbo for the 8. As soon as i realized there may be a possibility to beef up the 8's torque and whp, i thought to myself "why would i want anything else now?". I'd have looks AND power... but like you guys said, reliability is still gonna be an issue, so i'd probably wait a few years after purchasing the 8 before i did anything. At least until there's a solid understanding of what it would do to the engine. If i wait long enough for a purchase, maybe the Mazdaspeed turbo would be out. I don't think it'll be too much later...

is there an ETA on a Mazdaspeed turbo kit? i've been trying to read up (and catch up on months of missed posts) but haven't found anything indicating a Mazdaspeed turbo kit...

Ike

Given the history of FI rotaries having lots of problems myself and many others don't think Mazda will ever introduce an FI RX-8. Even if they make a turbo kit under the Mazdaspeed name it won't be covered under warranty so it's really no different than getting someone elses kit other than it will probably be a lot more expensive. If you don't think the RX-8 is fast enough for you in stock form consider other cars, don't try to fix it by throwing a turbo kit on it.

Goodluck with your testdrive, I bet you'll love it. Your current car is no speed demon so I bet when you open up the RX-8 it will be plenty fast for you.

raji

by the way everyone, yesterday i went to an auto show and got the chance to sit in the 3 cars i was interested in. The STi, the SRT and the 8. All of them had awesome interiors. I was actually surprised, especially by the STi because i had a different idea of what it would be like. In fact, i preferred most import cars to the really fancy cars like the BMWs or the Mercedes!

Anyway, like everyone in here said, the 8 got the most attention, mostly from ignorant people simply admiring its beauty. But still, getting a turn to sit at the wheel took a while of waiting in line! The same kind of lines as the Corvette and the new Mustangs got! The SRT got most of its attention from teenagers, so there wasn't much of a crowd around it, which to me, made sense. And finally, the STi got as little attention as the SRT, this time from auto enthusiasts of all ages.

Interesting indication of what kinds of people hang around what kinds of cars. OH, and i don't know if it was intentional, but the 8 had been keyed by some retard... it was pretty low by the rear left wheel... so to me, now that i think of it, that scratch looked way too low to have been unintentional, unless a child was carrying something sharp...

Ike

Yep, very different demographics on the cars. Go to an autox or track day, WRXs and STis are everywhere, same with the drag strip for that matter. The people that buy them are bigtime enthusiasts and a great bunch of people.

The SRT-4 is more a teen car, go look at the SRT-4forums, they're awful and painful to read. But that shouldn't detract from the car, it's a great car for the money. If cheap speed is what you're after it doesn't get any better when it comes to new cars.

The RX-8 is all over the board, it just appeals more to the masses and to those that place aesthetics above all else. There certainly are enthusiats that drive the RX-8 as well but not nearly as high a percentage as say the Evo and STi.

Shamblerock

Ike, great posts by you here. I respect your views/comments more with each new post you put up. Fair, intelligent and always leaving the door open for amends.

However, I don't necessarily agree with all your posts. To each their own, but I think you put far too much weight on the pure performance results without enough consideration on ther various other elements i.e. exterior, interior, quality of materials/assembly, engineering attributes, creativity, reputation etc...

By no means do I think the 8 is the greatest car around. But for me it was the best value for a good balance of all of the above items I mentioned. I just did not find any areas of the 8 where I could say they cut corners ina significant manner or tried to fool the buyer into thinking they are getting something better than what they are really getting (i.e Mustang's 73,000 fake vents). Fit, finish and materials used were surprisingly good quality and well assembled. Compared to my 1999 VW Passat (Audi A4/A6 platform) (Aka Sherman), sorry but the 8 is not that well put together and can not match level of engineering, electronics, quality of materials and assembly.

For me, the SRT4 can come with 1,000HP and I still wouldn't buy it at current prices because the performance now outweight the rest of the car's other attributes. It lacks overall balance. Its like a guy who goes to the gym everyday and focuses purely on Biceps and Chest and has very skinny legs. Such a person only gets respect from people who think big biceps means that you are strong. But a real body builder or those in the know look for the balance all over. They know the guy is tryiong to impress the ignorant and are full of themselves/bolony but has many weaknesses and therefore is not respected.

STI/EVO, certainly better than the SRT-4 in numerous ways but Christ make the body look a little sportier/sleeker and an interior with Nav/leather/sunroof options! Mighty fine reviews on both these from a performance aspect. Too expensive in either case, for me.

Last point (I promise): Regarding FI for the 8 in the future, I disagree with your opinion. I think the chances are better that 50% of it happening in some form or another withion 2 years.

Rationale: The Mazdaspeed 6 is now blown and looks like it will be a success story given its driving characteristics, styling and now power. But the gap between the 6 and the 8 has narrowed significantly as a result. The gap has to be widened again if the 8 is to maintain a healthy future and remain their flagship car for technology/power. All indications are the 8 is well received thus fair and production/sales are better than projected. There definitely is a market for this car. Therefore, there are probably 3 options to increase power.

1) Bigger rotors ( probable more gas consumption on a car that already is a pig)

2) 3 Rotors (more gas and requires a lot of R & D before they mass produce. Its too early in the 8's life to make sucha dramatic change already)

3) Turbo/Supercharging. Continued developments in technologies and manufacturing should be able to come up with a nice booster of 50 plus HP as a start and that could get tweaked each year increasing power abit here and there. It buys them time and satisfies a market while they R& D on newer rotary related technologies/engines. Turbos of 10 years ago on the RX& are certainly different from the ones available today. The rotary of today seems to have significant benefits over the last production rotary. So I think this is the next step.

Ike

Exterior and interior are so subjective that would could argue it all day and get nowhere. Lets take the WRX interior vs. the RX-8, my interior is simple and functional. The RX-8 has little plastic rotary accents all over the place that I think look silly, some of the buttons have a reputation for cracking, some complaints about a bar in the seats that's uncomfortable and people have already talked about things wearing out. I've never heard such complaints about the WRX, so just because it looks better does not make it better, it's all plastic no matter how you cut it. Not bashing the RX-8 interior, but simple isn't always a bad thing.

No creaks, heavily bolstered comfortable seats, great pedal placement with racing pedals, a Momo steering wheel, and everything put in the right place means I think the interior of the WRX is great even if it isn't the prettiest to look at. Most people bash the interior because they've heard how bad it is from others that have never really sat in one, when they actually see it most are surprised that it's pretty nice overall. I think Raj realized that when he sat in the STi.

Yes the RX-8 was far more inovative in design and is far more flashy looking. I don't really care for that personally, I think it looks great but I tend to like more sleeper looking cars. Something understated with a clue or two that it might have some nice performance but nothing that screams, look at me, like an RX-8 does.


I think they blew it with the acceleration of the RX-8, it just didn't do much for me. But again, that's subjective and is simply my opinion.


They all lack luxury and refinement to one degree or another. Some people care about that some don't. If you place performance highest on your list you don't want all the bells and whistles to weigh the car down. Sunroofs, navagation systems, and leather are heavy and I don't want any of them in my car. They are cars that are all about the road and driving fun, not gadgets and gizmos to distract from that. In my eyes the RX-8 fits your analogy just as well if not better than the STi, Evo, RX-8, etc. The RX-8 looks all fast on the outside, but put a pair of shorts on it :p or mash the pedal and it's skiny weak legs show it lacks in certain areas... Again I realize it's plenty quick for a lot of people, but I was disappointed.

The RX-8 sales have fallen a little short of goals but overall are strong, I don't know if the MS6 will mean much as far as the 8 goes since it's a small production special edition. I hope you're right, I'd love to see a factory FI RX-8.

1.) I don't really know the dynamics well enough to comment.

2.) Agreed.

3.) The gas consumption will go up with FI as well so it's not much different from #1. Also can a FI rotary pass todays emission regulations, the Renesis without FI had some issues, with FI it will be even more difficult. Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought one of the reasons the FD was pulled from North America is because it couldn't pass the upcoming emissions regulations.

You're also looking at a gas guzzler tax should the RX-8 lose even the slightest amount of fuel economy. It probably should be getting it now but the EPA somehow came up with the generous numbers they did. The main benefit the new rotary has is it isn't disposable and need to be rebuilt all the time like the engine in the FD. The main reason for the problems with the FD, heat generated by FI. If you were Mazda, and even moreso Ford, would you want to add FI to an engine that has a history of being very unreliable with it?

bmcc49er

I think it's funny how everyone claims to hate the SRT-4 because it's ugly or "just a Neon". But the emotions that this cars stirs are remarkable, much like the STi and Evo. Some people just can't stand the performance these cars offer for the price so they feel the need to bash silly/subjective things like looks and interiors at every opportunity and vigilantly defend the honor of their cars against them.


I am not bashing the car myself. I am giving a honest opinion. The SRT and STI do not do anything for me visually. The overall package for me is the 8. I don't race, I am in traffic like most people alot of the time. The 8 has more then enough power to be fun and get you out of a pinch. The SRT admittedly on here appeals to teenagers and hard not to stereotype when you read their board and the only encounter I had with one was when I was driving the speed limit and he came up on my *** where I couldn't see his headlights and then bolted around me speeding like a demon in a 45. If you put all three in a lot like they did most of the time people would flock to the 8 and with good reason. Its simply a better looking car to most people. I just don't understand the talk about the 8 being slow because most of the people doing the talking are running like the idiot in the SRT in traffic and endangering everyone else. If the 8 can do 150 or thereabouts just how much more do you need? The majority of owners of all three do not go to the track I am willing to bet. Looks matter to the majority so a Neon with a turbo is going to appeal exactly who it appeals to and the STI a great machine could be so much nicer if they put more into the looks. Thats not a bash, I think you would find that opinion in a poll on the street 85% maybe more of the time.

Shamblerock

Ike, as I said before, to each his own. Personally I don't think the 8 looks terribly fast at all; No scoops, no stickers, fairly skinny stock tires/rims, seating for 4 etc... but sleek and visually attractive inside and out. An artistic staement as most people will attest to. As for the "plastic" rotary signs, the average person doesn't even notice them or know what they are or what they symbolize. Its intended for those in the know. Besides the "metal" ones in the headrests and the shifter, I have not noticed any other rotary signs on the inside and the one in the front spoiler and rear skirt, they are an impression only in black so it is hard to detect and only those in the know are aware. That, my freind is what stealth means. Besides, its the only production car to be rotary powered and I don't see why they can't advertise that fact. Afterall any car with a V6 or V8 has that information as part of its badging. Its to let people know what powers the vehicle.

I have no interest in buying a car that looks like a toyota corolla inside and out, has a big *** scoop that impairs your vision of the right side of the road, a step ladder for a rear spoiler and several stickers on it to attract attention and can compete with a vette or Porsche. That is not stealth as you sdtated was your preference. Furthermore, why the hell will I want a car that is the bottom of a line as ordinary looking as a Corolla, WRX or STI modified by the manufacturer to boogie like a vette or a porsche? If that what turns your crank, so be it. Underneath the evo and sti is a platform intended to be a small economical and affordable car. They then did extensive work to build on an economy car and make it a performer, which they clearly both are. Whereas the 8 was designed from the ground up and built specifcally to do what it currently does and more. If you have driven an 8, the car's breaking handling and balnce can tolerate far more power while still maintaining control. I would rather have it that way than having too much power which the rest of the ar could not handle. The EVO and STI's unfortunately were not originally designed that way and they were clearly an afterthought. No thanks. If the evo and sti were not all wheel drive, you can bet your bottom dollar their sales would be more than halved and they would attract very little attention. Its a market they chose to pursue and if you must have 4 wheel drive and want a japanese car, Subaru owns you. Great move on their part for creating a niche for themselves.


Put it this way, I'd rather buy a 4,000 sq.ft. home instead of buying a 2,000 sq ft home and adding another 2,000 sq ft. Its just not the same and it will come back to haunt you. Look at the weight distribution, wheel base and height off the ground for both EVO and STI. Weak, very weak and dangerous numbers for a car that has 300 ponies.

I truly think its guys like you that need and thirst for the attention when you claim that is not what you really want. You want to attract the attention of guys like Vettes and Porsches to show them you can give them a good battle. Try to impress people with your performance numbers. Always trying to get attention one way or another. Most 8 owners I know don't go looking for the attention it comes to them univited. I think its clear, you want to be known as a sleeper and play a deceptive role? Being deceptive; what a great quality to have!


I would find it absolutely hilarious if I saw an EVO or STI trying to run a 911 and even funnier if the owner of the 911 even went for it! He shouldn't give you or the 8 the time of day. They are not in the same league despite performance numbers. So you want to go beat up on less powered non 4 wheel drive cars? Compare apples to apples all the way through and when there is a real match, then you can compare your performance numbers. Never seen anyone make serious and thorought comparision tests between an STI with a Porsche 4 or Audi S4. Why not? Because they are apples and oranges despite their performance numbers. That is why it is stupidity to compare the 8 to a SRT-4 because its apples and oranges. And if you cant see that glaring difference, you know less about cars then I ever imagined.

rev-2-9k

i was playing with a srt-4 the other day on the road. the kid who was driving it had just gotten it and the dealer tags were still on. some nods to each other sent us from 70+ to ..... ( a much higher speed). pretty even matched at full throttle. i think my gearing at the particular speed is what got me the 1/2 car i kept pulling on him. my bet is that from a dead stop the extra torque gets him off the line. i saw a few at the 1/4 mile strip a few weeks ago and the best runs were mid/low 14's. i have no idea what the magazines quote but the had way to much wheel spin.

raji

well the comparison between an 8 and an SRT came from me as the original posting-dude-thing. :D The reason is because i was trying to choose which one i should buy; the apple or the orange.

as for looks, well everyone has already agreed that they are always going to be subjective, but the fact still is that most people flock to the 8 before they do so much as glance at an EVO, STi or SRT. As a guy who deals with art and design regularly (as i'm sure anyone else here that is artistically inclined can agree), it's clear why the RX-8 attracts more attention. Like Shamblerock said, it was built from the ground up as a sports car, so there were concept designers slaving over their work trying to make the car look fast, aggressive, sleek or whatever they had in mind. There's a certain stance a sports car usually has. It leans forward, has aggressive headlights, cuts through the road with its low profile, etc etc. The EVOs and STis don't have that look. You have hints of it, but nothing like a sports car that was originally designed as a sports car. Look at the SRT... it has round lights... that's its face... how can that look aggressive? I could go on like this about the STi or EVO but you get the point. HOWEVER, as Ike said, it does look like a sleeper. It instills no fear in people, because they look like a toy a teenager's dad payed for... then those Vette owners get a good run for their money!

but Ike, think about this. Lamborghini and Ferrari wouldn't be what they are today if everything they did to their cars was under the hood.

Ike

Aren't the ones in the headrests and the shift **** plastic that's just suppsoed to look like metal? It's been a while since my testdrive but I remember them being plastic and kind of annoying. The RX-8 has been called "bulbous" and "garish" by a few publications and many consumers have echoed that. You view of the RX-8 being "artistic" is not universal.


The rear spoiler is rather functional on the STi is rather functional, as is the hood scoop that links directly to the TMIC... What is it that those little vents on your front quarter pabels do again? That's right, not a damn thing.

"I measured my STi wing as carefully as I could, and then used the LARC wing simulator to calculate the downforce. I assumed the following parameters:

Thickness: 25% of chord (2.0 in)
Camber: -6.5% of chord (-0.5 in)
Chord: 8 inches
Span: 4 feet
Angle of attack: -1.2 degrees
Altitude: sea level

These seem to be the best match to the STi, as well as I could do with just a tape measure. I assumed that the angle of attack was the angle of the top of the wing end plates. I measued this angle with geometry, not a level, so the angle of the car on the ground did not effect the measurement.

The calculated downforce is 60 lb at 100mph. At 150 mph, the downforce is 140 lb. These are increases in download on the rear axle of about 5% and 10%, assuming 60-40 f/r weight distribution. These are the numbers for the top wing only, not the deck lid spoiler, which will add a little more. These numbers are not insignificant."


Also the Impreza was developed with racing in mind first and foremost, it was to be the replacement for the Legacy in the WRC and they modeled it with that in mind. Most people don't realize that because it took so long for the STi and WRX to come to these shores. Besides there really is no economy version of the Impreza, there are less expensive models but they really don't fit the mold of the stereotypical economy car.

As for the Evo the similarities between it and the Lancer are very very little, they used the shell as a basic stepping stone to keep costs down. I appreciate that because otherwise it would probably be out of my pricerange.

Lastly, my car didn't come with any stickers on it nor does it have any now.

Huh... I don't get your analogy, sounds like an RX-8 with a turbo kit to me. What about the weight distribution?

I know Mazda has some of you brainwashed into thinking that 50/50 weight distribution means it will handle but but it's simply not the case. Most of the best handling cars in the world are not 50/50 and have a bias one way of the other. Don't believe me check out the Elise as just one example.

Dangerous, the Impreza is one of the safest cars on the road according to the FHSA. A rearwheel drive car with slight understeer and some snap oversteer like the RX-8 is far more dangerous if you want to nitpick. The last thing an STi or Evo is is unsafe.

I bought it because I loved my AWD turbo DSM, and because I live in Milwaukee where weather sucks a few months out of the year...

Get a grip man, comparing a 911 to an STi is a far cry from comparing a SRT-4 to an RX-8. The difference between an SRT-4 and an RX-8 can be as little as 4k, the difference between an STi and a 911 is around 40k. You drive a Mazda! But you've pointed out one of the wonderful things about the STi. I can have nearly the performance of cars over 2x the cost, if I could afford one of the more expensive cars I would buy one, but I can't!

Read this post, many of these guys get it and they actually can call the Subaru and econobox and I won't be offended. But when you drive a Mazda your holier than though attitude doesn't hold much water with me.

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthr...1&page=1&pp=20