Ike

As in you're dead wrong.

Ike

ml2316 is making some good points. Spin9k, what you just described is something any 4 seater can accomplish. There are cars out there that would so so quicker around the track than the RX-8, give the rear passengers more room, and you won't have to fill up the gas tank twice on the way home. :p

Speed-ER doc

Not for 27K.

Ike

You can get an EVO for 27k.

Speed-ER doc

Yeah, the new RS maybe, but does it have A/C? I think it's pretty stripped. The Evo 8 lists for $28987 or 2K more than the base RX-8. Can you really get either model at or below MSRP, or are they marking them up because of demand/rarity? Both would obviously humiliate the 8 performance-wise. Good call. I thought you were going to bring up the Dodge SRT-4. :p

Yanje

it all comes down to personal preferences and the individuals needs of the vehicle.

I would like a sports car, (dun have to be the fatest on the road, but fast enough to be ahead of the general pack), that can fit more than 1 passenger, and at the same time, beautiful and stunning in design. As well as that, safely for both the driver and passengers, along with comforts and convenience would be appreciated. Finally, a price which an 18 year old can afford. (it costs more down in Aus, 62k for leather MT)

No other car in the world would fit my criteria IMO. i am sure there are a few other 4/5 seater sports coupes/sedans that's around my budget, such as the Evo VIII. however, nofin (new productions) beats the look of an 8.

(and to be honest, (in my oppinion) the Z is so ugly! i am sure it's slightly faster, has alot more HP and torque. But its not very practical, and certainly not ingenius, an improvement and redesign of an ex-sedan....)

the Z is not overvalued, its quite a bargain. I dun think u can get anything in its class (that matches the HP/Torque/Performance) anywhere near its price range. (maybe the EVO VIII and sti, but truthfully, the new designs of the new evos and wrx's are pretty much screwed up compared to its presuccessors, imo that is) but i think the Z should be compared to cars such as the Porsche Boxster, Audi TTs or the Alfa GTA & GTV and etc. in that regard, Z is good value for money, and certainly a bargain.

However, i still stand by my decision. RX8 > Z in ALMOST every way.

Just my 2 cents

RotorMotor04

Well, since you do not own an 8 it would be hard for you to make that assumption, correct?

Yes the Z is a much more powerful car, but when it comes down to it the drivers of both cars make more of a difference than the specs of both cars ever would. With proffesional drivers yes the Z will take the 8, but when you get two amateurs the race could go either way.

Lawerence

I love it when people do that.

"yea with professional drivers the Z would win"
"but i got grazy skills and the other guy must have sucked"

They were talking about racing from a roll...all you do is mash the pedal and shift...doesnt take andretti.


Get over it people. The Z is faster plain and simple.

mysql101

I can buy a mustang that is faster than the Z. That doesn't make the Z any less of a car, or the Z not worthwhile in buying.

Spin9k

Seems everyone is in essence 'dancing on the head of a pin' in many respects with their arguments. None of the cars discussed are the same in so many important emotional and practical aspects, like comfort, luggage room, ultimate handling, 0-whatever times, style choice, price, etc.

Yet we are comparing them on their particular paper specifications for the most part, then pointing out their obvious design differences to say one or the other is superior.... it is an argument that no one can win, no one can lose.

A perfect example is someone saying a SRT-4 Neon is in any way comparable to an RX-8, but just because of the engine or it seats for four people, they do. It's like talking grape juice and fine wine. Both are great drinks, but would anyone knowingly mistake one for the other?

The 8 is in a class by itself, and is difficult, though lots of fun to discuss/compare to so many other cars that it is sort of similar too, in this or that way.
For many of us the 8 is the best combination of so many divergent design goals that that is why we own it, not something else. There's no way any other car can beat our unique mix.

PaulieWalnuts

Okay, if you want to talk about the results of the engineering let's compare apples to apples including price, weight, convenience, etc .

350Z - Have the Nissan engineers add four seats and four doors to the Z and chances are good that, in addition to the already increased weight, the car will need reinforcement which will add even more weight and more cost. Say a few thousands dollars to a $29K base. Now you have a car that possibly is a 3600lb+ beast. I bet the 0-60mph, qtr mile, and track capabilities would no longer be competitive. So then Nissan adds a Turbo to be competitive again. The turbo and associated improvements add even more weight and now you have a beast whose base cost has been bumped up to around $31K - $33K and, after options, is realistically is out the door for over $40K+. Now it's no longer competitive in price.

How about a G35 Coupe? Beautiful and fast but ever sit in the back seat? I have and it’s very cramped. Same deal. Redesign it to accommodate rear passengers with the same rear seat dimensions as the 8 and now the car with have to be substantially redesigned to maintain its sleek tapered look to avoid having a hunchback. More weight, decreased performance and/or questionable appearance, and increased price. An optioned out G35 is pushing $39-$40K.

S2000 - brilliant piece of engineering, but same thing, 2 seater.
TT - same thing
330ci coupe- seats four people but would need slightly better performance but its base cost is already $10K more than an 8.
M3 – better performance but it’s already $40K+.

On and on and on. All of the engineering has resulted in a car that when comparing apples to apples, there is no realistic comparison. It's about compromise. And the 8 engineers have done an extraordinary job of making a balanced car that no other company can equal in terms of ALL of its features at a cost of $27 - $34K (and without borrowing parts from other cars). Amazing.

Yanje

8 is slower than Z. i'd admit that, and theres no shame in that comparing the size of the engines. if ppl prefer speed over handling and innovativeness, then so be it.

8 is just much more conventional in every way

policyvote

Many might feel I'm not qualified to speak on this, since the closest I've come to driving either the Z or the 8 is getting behind the wheel of an AT G35 coupe . . . But the 8 just has something that the Z doesn't, in every category:

Styling: I like the Z's styling, it's a very good looking car--but I lay awake nights thinking about the 8. I've always loved the Z-cars, and the 350 is another great Z, but it just doesn't seem to have any carryover. That is, it doesn't pay enough homage to the older Zs, and what new stuff it brings to the table style-wise isn't very unique (Celica headlights, TT rear end). Meanwhile, the 8 is the sexiest thing on the road. I know some think it's "bulbous" or whatever, but to me, it doesn't get any better than the RX-8. It's just a gorgeous, beautifully proportioned design. And with the MazdaSpeed body kit? Perfection.

Performance: Okay, so the 8 doesn't have the big-league cojones to back up its looks--at least not in its current, stock form. And yeah, the Z has the big V6. But that same V6 is available in like every other car Nissan makes . . . and at the end of the day, it's just a big V6. Nothing cool, new, interesting, or unique about it--just a healthy dose of displacement. I probably don't need to go into the 8 that much except to say A) rotaries are cool for a lot of reasons, and B) if CZ's mod is any indication, there's a LOT of potential in the 13B-MSP. With just aggressive tuning and a high-flow cat, CZ has pushed the 8 into the 240+ rwhp range, or right about even with the Z (which weighs 100-200 lbs more).

Handling: Since I haven't driven either, I really can't comment--but near-universal consensus says the 8 wins here, too.

Practicality: Of course, the 8 wins this hands-down. Four doors, four seats, decent trunk, better interior. Neither car is winning any fuel economy awards . . .

Overall, the 8 is just about perfect IMO--yeah, a little more power and a little better fuel economy would be great, but that can pretty much be accomplished with just A/F/S tuning. It's got bugs, but it's got mojo. To me, the Z is more polished but much less interesting. I mean, if polish and convention were what I were after, I'd be dreaming about a used BMW 5-series!

I guess it just comes down to preferences and opinions, but from where I'm sitting, the RX-8 is the total package.

Peace
policy

klegg

This was not ment as a Z bashing thread, just my observation of why we get so many Z trolls...

Like I said at the start, the Z does a whole lot well,
(the G35 does it better,IMO)...the rx8 comes close to or beats it in every catogory, with very inovative design.....making it a "special" car

It reminds me of the first DSM Gsx...did so much well, with such high tech (for the time) at such a good price...I recall mustang owners bitching about how the GT was faster, thus better. It was faster, but not in the rain, or snow, or in turns....not to mention the huge gap in quality and comfort. The GT was a one trick pony (yes, a pun) . what we have now in the 8 v. Z arguments are the EXACT same thing..

Just 'cuse a car is faster, it is not a better car....so many other factors to look at.

And of course, there is the emotion factor. I have not seen a lot of 8 trolls on other boards, certianly not what we see here from the Z camp. The 8 triggers an emotional response, on a basic level. If you have it, you are happy. If you do not, you want to try to "minimize" the car to its owners. This is the mark of a great car.

I think canzoomer is a real good example of this..He was furious with some or the early issues with the car. He is a succesful guy, and could have bought whatever he wanted to replace it. Instead, he spent so much time (and cash) to make it what he wanted....why? Because the car had a grip on him on that basic level. (not a sales pitch, I respect what he did, but I am not in to mods myself)

I think a lot of the early purchasers of the 8 did what I did...drove the Z, the G35 perhaps a bmw or evo or wrx...then drove the 8 and bought it that day! That is the level of emotion the 8 can cause, positive or negative.

flatso

I think the true ingenuity of both these cars is how they can perform in the "real world" like cars that are selling for twice as much. The Japanese are masters of this and each new car gets closer and closer to being the best of show but for thousands and thousands less.

mysql101

Am I the only one who thinks it's cool to have a car that was made out of 97% Japanese parts?

rxeightr

In reviewing this thread, or any other thread for that matter, I have never seen anyone prove otherwise what pelucidor mentions here. Any takers?

Before pre-ordering my RX-8, I did the dance. Looked at many possibilities in the same price range, both new & used. No other choice gave me the what this car offered as a total package.

The RX-8 is a compromised Sports Car with few limitations.

RotorMotor04

Well, first of all I was not just talking about rolling starts. I am sorry to tell you driving experience makes a difference not matter what type of racing you are doing. I do not care it you are rolling or not. If you are not an experienced driver a slower car could beat you. The only time experience is not really needed is when driving an automatic because then all you do is put it to the floor

RX8Bliss

wow dejavu...

i like the z. the fairlady is a legendary series of cars (cept maybe the 300z). the styling, while different from the 8 is nice in its own way. its definitely faster than my 8 as long as i go straight. i have absolutely no problem with the z. in fact, it'd be nice to have one sit next to my 8.
i understand klegg''s main point was a comment on trolls but idiots are everywhere in the world, its unavoidable that some people would choose to boost their own egos by belittling others. in the end its just a car, a material thing that'll be obsolete in a matter of years. people might pour alot of emotional attachment to material things but that's just shallow and ill conceived. and if someone has to taunt others to eleviate their own self-esteems, well that's just plain sad. you'd have to have lived a rather pathetic life if the only joy you can get is by making fun of others.
lets not spiral down to the "my car is faster than yours, my dad can beat up your dad..." mantra of the hopelessly clueless fast-and-furious worshippers.

Hello everyone my name is Rx8Bliss. (hello rx8bliss)
I love cars. i like the fairlady, the skylines, the stookers, etc. (wow! me too!)
I hope to better myself by learning more about cars and trying to experience the different type of driving that associates to them all.
I own an rx8 right now. Someday, I'll own them all.

2QT2bSTR8

First I will not question someone's choice of car. Whats right for me may not be right for someone else. While I dont think the Z is all that attractive nor do I think its a good deal...I can see the appeal that someone could have with it. Having said that, I laugh my *** off at Z and S2000 owners that make statements like "the Z is a better track car"..

I find this funny for 2 reasons.

1) 99.999999999 pct of the owners that bring the fact that the Z is better on the track have never run either car on the track.
2) In reality both the rx-8 and Z suck on the track.

The 8 is a really fun car, I cant get enough of it.

TwoZooms

I drove both the Z and the 8 before settling on the 8. The Z is a good car, but it has a very different feel from the 8. Where the 8 is light, the Z is heavy. Where the 8 is delicate, the Z is brutal. And, yes, I can see where the Z, with its chunky lines and rumbling exhaust, could be viewed as more "masculine" than the 8's dramatic curves and refined engine. The 8's "feminine" qualities extend to the lighter clutch and gearbox and gentler ride, too. All told, the unique and innovative 8 spoke to me in a way that the Z did not, so I bought one. I love it!

zthang

I tip my hat off to mazda for making the RX8. I know they weren't really interested in making that much money off of the RX8, but rather wanted to uplift its image as a company and revive the spirits of rotary enthusiasts. Honestly, i think it is because of its "ingenuity" that the 8 doesn't sell quite as well as say the Z. I personally didn't get the 8 because I've never owned a rotary, and I had no idea how it would do in terms of reliability and cost of maintenence. I commend you guys for being different and buying the 8 because it's a really great car...but don't make posts with subjective comments and opinionated remarks to justify your decision. Yes, the 8 is rather "ingenious". More so than most cars in fact, but that doesn't automatically make it "better" than any other car. The 8 is a great car, the Z is a great car, but neither is close to perfect.

Btw, the base price for the Z is $26K, not $39k or whatever other random number people are throwing out here.
And, the Front-Midship platform that is seen on the G35 sedan/G35 Coupe/350Z ORIGINATED in the Z concept car. This platform was developed from and for the Z, however they adopted it for the G35 Sedan, and the G35 just happened to be released first. Also, the Z platform is considerably shorter and wider than the G35 platform, so they aren't the exact same platform.

Hate me if you want, I've gotten used to it here, but I will still say I love the 8, and originally thought hard about getting it, but i just liked the Z package a little more.

guy321

words of wisdom, zthang. hats off to ya..

JmurphRx8

--Z owners think their cars the greatest...so wht you can go fast in a straight line....who drives in a straight line anyways???? thats why the 8 is so fun cause its catered to EVERYDAY DRIVING, not just blasting from one stop light to another.....

Seenitall

You are right. I chose RX8 after driving 350Z, G35 and WRX. Some folks are too concerned about justifying their purchase. Just choose your car based on your needs/desires and dont worry about somebody elses choice.
BTW Ike, what car do YOU consider groundbreaking?