Rotarian_SC

Well the S03's are supposedly great wet tires as well, I'll admit that the F1's are better though, but the F1's don't come in stock RX8 tire size. You can get them in 225/40/18 or 245/45/18, while the stock tires are 225/45/18

RotorManiac

Oh, nooo really? I was thinking of the F1 when the 040 were finished.... I thought they came out on our stock size!
225/40/18 will decrease the diameter of the wheel, and probably change the car's handling. That's bad news....

Shiri

Well, they claim to own the car, and their sure are a lot of them trolling about....like anything on the net, how do you really know what is legitamate or not? You have to take it on face value.


Lets take this thread for example, apart from Zthang and ml2816 (sorry guys for the spelling, I don't see anybody saying anything bad about the RX8.

I see Zthang constantly saying good things about the RX8, though it looks really forced. Can't help that if you are a non-owner.

People should be allow to speak what's on their mind, quite understandably, owners get defensive when they learn or are reminded of the shortcomings of their cars.

Take one of my cars, its a timebomb waiting to happen, and people are going to be scared of buying my car if I choose to sell it. Such reputation doesn't help does it? I have an FD RX7 BTW.


Actually, I agree that th Z is excellent, and have gone out of my way to defend the car, especially the G35. I may not care for the interior, but that did not stop me from giving the car its props.


Not according to what you wrote, you put it like its just a car with a big engine that makes it go fast. That's either words of a bias fanboy, or someone who really have no ideas about cars.


I do think you go a bit overboard in how people like it.......


Actually I don't think so. I don't even own a 350z (I have the previous model TT version).


The tire issue is a big problem, but hay, to each his own. ANd no, the car is not as "high tech" or inovative as th 8....that does not mean it is bad, just diffrent. oh, and the worlds best 6 cylinder car is the BMW M3.....


One thing about being a sports car, is that it can be highly configured. In order to keep the price down, Nissan has chosen standard quality parts to ensure that the car performs to expectations. Keen owners will probably want to take their modifications further by changing the tires first especially for drags, and suspension for track racing. Nissan had always allowed their customers to do whatever they want, that's one of the best thing about them. In Japan, we have so many workshops specialising in Z32s, GTRs and now 350z. It is truely a work of art working on these cars and gaining so much more power out of them. The VQ engine is a great engine to work on, it won't break down like some engines I know.

It is your opinion to think that the 350z is not high tech, but to the rest of us, it is, as I have previously explained.


Well, wrong. the 8 is superior to the 7 in some ways, and comes close in HP....but it was never ment or sold as a 7 replacement. Diffrent concept, so nothing to compare it to, really.

The 8 is far far away from the 7, though it is probably slightly more reliable. From what I first saw when this site first went up, people were replacing their engines, and they were not exactly professional racers either.

7 suffered from having cheap components, resulting in a car that overheats too easily. Rotaries are not easy to work on, making them unfavourable for the average sports car enthusiasts.


The Z engine is a clasic powerplant, really a home run for NMC...just not inovative.....certianly not like the wankel is....again not bad, just not inovative.


Well that's an opinion, not fact.

"And without the serious problems that the Z has...(I do not consider the mpg or the HP a serious problem in a sports car, and the flash's have improved it quit a bit. Plus, mazda did more to make it right then any other car company does in this situation....Just look at how long it took nissan to fix the radio issue, not to mention the front end issue that is still not fixed!)"


That is the question, if the RX8 is a sports car, then why isn't the performance comparable with others?

If it isn't, then why is it so inefficient? The Z is a sports car, owners will even hit 14-15mpg when driven extremely hard, that is its purpose. However normally, most get mid 20s-30s mpg. That's pretty good for a car that weighs heavier, generates more power than the RX8. Again, its thanks to the VQ engine and Nissan engineering.


Again wrong! If you look aver my 700 or so posts here, you will will see me saying over and over how much I like the g35.

Its all a matter of opinion really. I think the G35 and Z are the same sort of car, with the G geared towards luxury (its basically a 2+2 Z). If one likes the G for performance, they will like the Z even better. Its pretty ignorant for one to like the G but not the Z for performance.


I do not like nasty Z TROLLS. since one actually threatened to injure my kids, I think I have a right to be a little harsh on Z TROLLS .

Nobody likes trolls who contributes negatively. Real car enthusiasts don't go on different forums to talk bad about other cars or people. They talk about shortcomings and highlights. That is a right that everybody has on the internet.


again, a troll is diffrent from a fanboy or enthusiast. As to Nissan, I own an xterra. I do not like how they have delt with my issues with the truck during the time I have had it, but the problems with the Z are more serious. Any company that takes yor 30k should stand behind the product and get it right! Mazda did, and still is. B/T/W how many tires, or "tyres" as they say overseas, have you replaced?

Nissan is a far biggest company than Mazda. The tire feathering issue is solvable, go to My350z.com to find out. This is a common problems shared by a lot of cars, not just the Z. The Honda NSX forces you to replace its tires every 20k, that's horrible! Yet people are still willing to overlook that and still call it a great car. Nissan has done well to keep the cost down, its gone through a lot to rejuvenate its image from the working class car company to one that could be respected. They have achieved that and will only continue to strive higher thanks to many new models now on the market.


How many times do I have to say I like the Z?....but, the truth is that it is easy to stick a big engine in a car and have it go fast....handeling, ride quality and braking ar diffrent matters....here the Z does a good job. Not the 8, but high end for sure.


Actually it is not as easy as you might think. Some chassis can't take larger capacity engines because they will flex too much and damage the drivetrain as a result of it. If Nissan really wanted, they could have put the RB26DETT into a GTiR instead of the SR20DETT. Nissan has so many engines to choose from if they wanted to produce a "big engine" type effect. Instead they chose the VQ because it is so flexible and good enough to power one of Nissan's most famous heritage, the Z.

The RX8 engine is indeed small and unique in its own right, it may not have the strength to power heavier cars, but it does a good job of pushing lighter cars. Not strong like the Z, but high end enough for what it was intended to do.





well, starting to get trollish here, but I will let it go....Sparky, cheak your gas gauge. MY friends G35 gets worse mpg then my 8. In fact, the 19 mpg I am getting now is better then my DSM GSX! All sports cars suck on this issue, it is a know quality, and the trade we make for performance.....the fact that the engine can put out what it does at its size, weight and relative simplicity(so few moving parts) makes it so unique, which IS MY POINT! You proved it. the most inovative powerplant in any car today, and you can not even acknowledge it. that is what drives the Z troll....tech envy!


Actually your first post was rather trollish like, you can only expect the kind of reception you dish out.

As I mentioned before, MPG is a serious issue for a sports car that is not performing like one. The rotary engine should be recognised for its efficient use of space and power, yet it performs no better than a 2.6 litre car and even has a worst MPG than a Skyline GTR!

Isn't it an engineering dream to build a car that can go fast, yet uses little energy to do so? That's the kind of technological advancement that everyone is trying to achieve. The RX8 is not exactly a step closer to that goal.


But you are right, if all you want to do is go fast, get a Z, or a evo, or a GT, or a neon srt better yet. It is a balance thing, how the car does everything right that sets it apart. ask a lotus elan owner, I think you will get the same reaction.


People want to go fast under any circumstances, not just in a straight line.

Well, How do I responded to this spew? hmmmmm i will take the high road. The car is what it is, we drove it before we bought it, and liked it enought to buy it......we must "get it".


Ah, the famous "get it" syndrome. People buy the Neon SRT because they "get it", but I think they are probably "getting it" a lot more out of their car than most, get it?


You should drive the car, then come back and tell us what you think. Maybe then you would "get it" This thread was never about the Z as a car...It was about how the Z posters here tend to be nasty, trollish and rude.


I have driven the RX8 and I personally felt it to be on the boring side. I did feel like I was driving a family car instead of a sports car. The engine was uninspiring, in fact the car reminded me of the MX6 turbo. That car had a lot of power and was turbocharged, but it was so boring to drive. It was a FWD as well so that probably didn't help. I just didn't get the same sort of sports car thrill as I got in the 350z. That's just my experiences, though if I wanted to buy a semi sports/luxury car, then I will be looking at an RX8 or a G35c.


You kind of fell into this area with your last paragraph, but most of what you said was fairly thought out, so I will let it slide........because you proved my original point. I do think it is odd that you show up in the honda forum, this forum, the Z forum....DO you even own any of the cars? hmmmmmm. NOW GO HAVE AND ICE TEA, (or a pint) CALM DOWN, AND THINK THINGS OVER.[COLOR=red]

Well, can't help it with the things you write. Seriously, I don't think I even talk bad about the RX8 on the other forums.

As for what cars I had and have, I had a 626 (worst car ever with the auto transmission and FWD) and a Honda Accord (boring FWD). I have a 300zx TT, Skyline GTR and now an RX7.

So yeah, I'm taking it really really really easy, I've nothing to prove. Maybe you are the one that needs to CALM DOWN and stop posting this kind of thread. Have a nice day.

Ike

Holy crap, I would respond to some of you points but I need a nap after reading all that :p Good points overall though.

HiTMaNN

i call bs on you owning a skyline!

Hanzo

That's just too much to read.

RotorManiac

Shiri you are pointing out some good thigs:
"Nissan had always allowed their customers to do whatever they want" which I agree and is a good thing.

But some other opinions you have are the stupiest I've ever heard:
"if the RX8 is a sports car, then why isn't the performance comparable with others?"
You know that there is performance (except you drove the 8 like a granny) and you are forgetting the most impotant thing here. MONEY! The rx8 is one of the quickest cars you can buy at this price, while the Z is left behind in shame by other equally priced cars.

"The VQ engine is a great engine" I just don't see the greatness in an engine that makes 80hp per litre. If its good for modding, that's another story, and I am not concerned, as the majority of the people.

" The Z is a sports car" Personally I would preffer to call it wanna-be sports car.
Having 280hp and huge torque and thus making only 6secs from 0 to 100km/h it is ultimately victim of its OWN weight!!! If I wanted a car more than one and a half tons I would pay mercedes or BMW a visit!
Oh yeah, and now go ahead and tell me that Nissan (or aka Datsun:D ) is better than german enginneering...

Elara

gah- Shiri, I think you win for longest post ever. And you don't see the trolls because the mods (in this case, me or Cueball) took the posts out and/or edited them and/or banned the troll responsible. We have had MORE than our fair share here. We just clean them up as fast as we catch them. So that part of your argument (??) is not valid. As for the rest of your post- way too long for my short attention span to read. But I'm sure you've made some good arguments. For whatever it is that this thread is now arguing about.

Ike

0-60 isn't the end all be all of performance, the Z is much faster than the RX-8 as the speeds increase and it's in the same pricerange as the RX-8 so I don't quite understand what you're getting at. The RX-8 will get outpaced in a straightline by a lot of the sports sedans on the market and is about on par or slower than many less expensive cars. The Z is really only slower than the EVO and the STi in the 30k ish pricerange so I don't know where you're getting your info. The Z is also not that much heavier than the RX-8; a couple hundred pounds.


The VQ is a great engine and wins many many awards, you sound like a honda fanboy talking about HP per litre as the guage for a good engine. By your thinking the LS1, LS6, and many many other great engines aren't any good because they use larger displacement.

RX8-TX

What he **** Klegg?? don't you have better things to do than to start a mud-slingin' fest??

Broker73

there you go again IKE. Actually up here the Z is more $$ than the 8, and if you call .5secs much faster then all the power to yah. With the stage one, I have outpaced the G35 from 2nd mant times, and I think it is more of a comparison than the Z.
From 0-60 it has the 8 by what? .4-.5secs? Slap in a stage one and it narrows it further. Spend a considerable amount of time in the 8 before you start making judgements. I agree the Z is faster, but for a small amt of $$ (stage 1), it gets interesting.

RotorMotor04

I completely agree. With 1,000$ the 8 would run with the Z

RotorManiac

For christ sake's Ike. Listen to yourself! You say 0-60 isn't important and then all you talk about is straightline acceleration, which definately means too little for overall performance. Whether you like it or not, the Z CAN'T loose the 8 on tight bends! That's shame for the stronger/faster car NOT the cheaper/slower one!

Where am I getting at? In case you haven't noticed I was talking about "value for money" of the 8, not just performance. My point was that it is great as a whole package, and many hate the 8 just for that! That's why it's everyone's target, and this forum full of trolls

Like which ones? Maybe this has to do with the difference in our markets and prices, since I don't remember any of these cars you are mentioning. Enlighten me please.
In case you are reffering to the subaru WRX, trust me, it is slower (personal experience, but street racing is prohibited, so I can't say any more)

"Is really ONLY slower?" that's two cars in the SAME pricerange that leave behind the Z for good, you need more? People never compair the Z with more expensive cars, like they always do with the 8! Take the Elise or the VX220 Turbo for instance (oops, matter's getting worse for the Z:D )
I get my info by reading many mags from different countries, internet articles and like I said, from my own 'personal tests'

From what I know its about 150kg (I think it is about 300pounds, not sure) and that my friend is A LOT of weight. Never also said the 8 is light, I disagree with people claiming that. The 7 and the S2k are light. But the 8 gets away with it 'cause of the luxury it has. True sports cars shouldn't be more than 1300kg... (my opinion)

You may be right at this point. Taxing in my country makes me think this way sometimes, as it increases dramatically as the engine displacement increases too. That's why the Z is so highly priced and insured over here . However, I can also tell a good engine when I see one, that includes both the renesis and the V-tec.

Peace.

Skyline Maniac

This thread is getting interesting... or rather funny, I can't decide which. It would be much easier to defend the RX-8 but stating it can do something the Z could never do - carry 4 passengers.

"With 1,000$ the 8 would run with the Z" "With the stage one, I have outpaced the G35 from 2nd mant times, and I think it is more of a comparison than the Z. "

With $1000, a Kinetix Plenum, Race CAT and a CAI and you have 300+hp for the Z and G - try to catch that with a Stage 1. Comparing modded to stock is kind of pointless, because the boundary becomes obscure and confusing.

Many people say the RX-8 is much more nimble and lighter than the Z....... after having driven the Mazdaspeed Miata, both RX-8 and Z feels heavy. The Miata might only carry 2, but it's a convertible, nimble as hell, silky smooth engine and transmission, FUN TO DRIVE! Too bad it still looks as sissy as ever, but the Mazdaspeed version really makes a difference. Did I mention the Mazdaspeed Miata has more torque than the RX-8?

Sure, the Miata is not as fast in the straight lines, but when you are zipping around slaloms and hairpins, 0-60 is not that important.

Shiri

But some other opinions you have are the stupiest I've ever heard:
"if the RX8 is a sports car, then why isn't the performance comparable with others?"
You know that there is performance (except you drove the 8 like a granny) and you are forgetting the most impotant thing here. MONEY! The rx8 is one of the quickest cars you can buy at this price, while the Z is left behind in shame by other equally priced cars.


Wrong! The RX8 in Australia cost about $65k. That is a ridiculous price to pay for a car slower than an equivalent Subaru WRX. The Z is around the same price.

It has already been stated by many, the Z is the best budget sports car. You're paying for a car that is faster out of the factory, and faster modded compared to the RX8. For $26k minimum, it beats a lot of cars that are more expensive (Honda S2000) and cars that are more powerful (M5). What does that say about those cars? Are they inferior?
And one other thing, the Z needs quite a bit of time to break in to produce the times it is capable of doing while stock. That's why its performances varies from one road test to another.

If you want to know a car that is really value for money for the performance, look no further than the Neon SRT. The RX8 is not making a lot of sense compared to this car.


"The VQ engine is a great engine" I just don't see the greatness in an engine that makes 80hp per litre. If its good for modding, that's another story, and I am not concerned, as the majority of the people.


If a car making 80hp per litre, is faster than a car making 120hp per litre, then that's something worth taking notice of. Basically, the end result is, the Z is just way faster than the RX8 because it has a very well engineered engine/chassis setup. No point saying that if the Rotary was a 3.5 litre, then it would be faster than the Z. Mazda couldn't build such a car as it is technically impossible for them (really, just think about the current problems with the RX8 now and multiply by 3, Mazda doesn't have that much money to invest).


" The Z is a sports car" Personally I would preffer to call it wanna-be sports car.


So what does that make the RX8? lightened sedan? The only thing sportscar-like about the RX8 is the MPG. The Z IS A TRUE SPORTS CAR, whether you like it or not.


Having 280hp and huge torque and thus making only 6secs from 0 to 100km/h it is ultimately victim of its OWN weight!!! If I wanted a car more than one and a half tons I would pay mercedes or BMW a visit!

The Z is a 5/14 second car. Pretty good for an NA at $26k. What is the RX8 again? For a car as light as the RX8, its pretty disappointing to talk about its lack of performance despite an "amazing" engine. I wonder how the rotary engine would do powering a 1.5 ton car?

It is more expensive to mod a Mercedes or a BMW, aren't they already so expensive to begin with? It would take a baller to do that, and by the sounds of it, I don't think you are.

As you know, Nissan makes a hell of a lot of cars. If they wanted to, they could easily have given the chop to the Silvias/180/Pulsars and place all their efforts on the Z and Skyline sports car series.
The reason why Nissan produced so many cars is because of the way Japan is. Mazda doesn't do that, that's why they are not a best seller here.


Oh yeah, and now go ahead and tell me that Nissan (or aka Datsun:D ) is better than german enginneering...

Nissan bought over Datsun and went global.

I don't think Japanese engineering is better than german engineering (if that is what you're trying to say), but they do make everybody, including the Germans, sit up and take notice (GTRs and NSX are well respected anywhere in the world).

Hanzo

You guys sure like to write novels for post. I doubt anyone other than the person you are directing to is reading them.

RotorManiac

...The RX8 in Australia cost about $65k. That is a ridiculous price to pay for a car slower than an equivalent Subaru WRX. The Z is around the same price.
...the Z needs quite a bit of time to break in to produce the times...
OK, I no point to go on with this discussion since the difference in markets make us both believe what we believe. Here the 8 is priced nicely while the Z's price is ridicoulus. In your place, it must be the other way round, so I don't blame you
As for the break-in period, the same goes for the 8.

...think about the current problems with the RX8...
As I accept some of your points, please be wise to accept some of mine: the 8 has NO problems. Mass produced cars face problems, the 8 has less than any other I came across (owned by me or friends.As a matter of fact the amazing thing is that my 8 is the only one with no problems at all!)

...lightened sedan? The only thing sportscar-like about the RX8 is the MPG...
I call it sports cruiser, which is. I know you don't like it, because it's kind of a hybrid, but it does the job way to good to accuse it. MPG is only bad when you are driving to the limit. And really, the 8 IS heavy. But sacrifice some performance, and you get an everyday car, or better your 1st car, the Z can be the 1st car to a 17-year-old you drives around just for fun. Otherwise it has to be 2nd option.

I wonder how the rotary engine would do powering a 1.5 ton car?
Heh, bad thought, wanna know why? Cuz you can try it! Put 4 adults in there(as I did~1700kg) and still... it accelarates nicely.
I wonder how the Z would do with 230hp and half the torque D

...but they do make everybody, including the Germans, sit up and take notice...
I like nissan (always loved the GT-R34) and I like the Z too, I just don't like it when people think its one of the best out there.

Hornet

Now I'm not going to argue with every little bit of this post but to be honest some of what you say is bordering on ignorant. I agree the SRT4 is great "bang for the buck" but a better value than the RX-8....I'm not too sure about that. I like what they have done with that car but there are reasons why it cost about $20k...such as power windows in the front seat and manual windows in the back (I know this has nothing to do with performance but it does with value). As far as the 8 being any less of a sports car than the Z, I have to laugh at you on that one. The 8 gets poor gas mileage but don't forget the 8 has a few things that is considered a hallmark of great sports cars such as the near 50/50 weight distribution that contributes to the great handling, great braking, and good (not great) acceleration. The perception people have of the RX-8 being slow is a little off base. I have to find the site later but I did see a site out there where owners posted their 1/4 mile times in cars like Mustang GTs and Camaros/ Firebirds and the RX-8 from the numbers posted in this site puts up similar numbers. None of those cars get the stigma of being slow placed on them though. So overall the Z is a great sports car package as is the 8. The Z may be faster in a straight line but that is not and will not ever be the total definition of a sports car!

Ike

You're the one that started talking straigtline acceleration, I was just disputing your points. I don't deny the RX-8 is a great package, but so is the Z.


Which cars? The V6 Accord, G35, Maxima, Altima 3.5, 350Z, Legacy GT, WRX, SRT-4, Forester XT, EVO, STi, TL, S2K, GTO (more expensive), and maybe some I'm forgetting are all able to beat the RX-8 from a roll and/or in the 1/4 mile. This is also leaving out cars that are no longer in production. I'm not saying the RX-8 is a bad car as a result, but you asked for which cars...

P.S. V-tec is not an engine...

klegg

odd, I did not start a car v. car thread, but a comment on ZTROLLS...not z owners, not z fanboys, but z trolls.......you have issue with that..stay out of this thread.....

RotorManiac

I said 0-60 as a 'number', didn't want to be so specific. I meant the Z hasn't got good performance for its class (lets say 280hp class), then you compaired the two cars again on a straightline.

Three or more of the cars you state, shouldn't be in your list 'cause they are not 4-seaters or sports sedans as you said. Many more are 20% to 50% more expensive, so they're out too. Well, as you can see now, there aren't so many cars faster than the 8!
And sorry about the bad english. The 'V-tec' term is used in my language as a short term reffering to the Honda 2litre engine. Translating straight from one languge to another is wrong, my fault.

P.S. Oh, and please don't post the WRX in the 'faster' list! It isn't. Said it in my previous answer to you. There's no way you can convince me otherwise, it's personal experience, but I'm not allowed to talk about it in this forum.

RX8-TX

No kidding, you didn't start a Car related thread at all. Its a mouse trap. Why on the General Automotive?

Give me a break...is this about people or a car?

How important is a stereo on a sports car?

I can't believe how hypocrite you can be....do you think I can't go back and read what you posted? What was the reason to make such a light headed post on the General Automotive forum? Did you just want to get the sparks flying? Then why didn't you just post it on the Lounge?

I am starting to lose faith in you man. Every new post of yours seems more like coming from a 14 year old kid. Grow up! -at least to your biological age.

Is that supposed to be a constructive comment at all? Or maybe you just had a revelation from the holy spirit! This is ridiculous.

mysql101

Given that car's can't troll ...

RX8-TX

Thank you! Then why the he%$ on the Gral. Automotive ?
Who's trolling...do we have to make domestic cleanup 'round here?

Shiri

Now I'm not going to argue with every little bit of this post but to be honest some of what you say is bordering on ignorant. I agree the SRT4 is great "bang for the buck" but a better value than the RX-8....I'm not too sure about that. I like what they have done with that car but there are reasons why it cost about $20k...such as power windows in the front seat and manual windows in the back (I know this has nothing to do with performance but it does with value).


If you had a choice of buying a 20k car which is faster than a 30k car, and is even faster if both cars had another 10k of mods, which car would you buy? In the end, people seem to only care about performance and if they can get all that for a good price then why not? That's the idea behind the SRT and it works. I have no problem with SRTs equalling or even beating Zs in performance, it just means that they are better value for money. Cars like the Zs represents a different motoring demography, they are bigger, gruntier, sleeker sports cars. That's what makes them sell.
All this crap about hearing someone beating a more expensive car and telling them "yeah you paid too much for your car", is what kids do. Totally immature. I could easily put 20k into my cars and wipe out everything on the road, but what does that prove? People just want their 5 minutes of fame these days.


As far as the 8 being any less of a sports car than the Z, I have to laugh at you on that one. The 8 gets poor gas mileage but don't forget the 8 has a few things that is considered a hallmark of great sports cars such as the near 50/50 weight distribution that contributes to the great handling, great braking, and good (not great) acceleration. The perception people have of the RX-8 being slow is a little off base. I have to find the site later but I did see a site out there where owners posted their 1/4 mile times in cars like Mustang GTs and Camaros/ Firebirds and the RX-8 from the numbers posted in this site puts up similar numbers.


The 8 isn't any less of a CAR than the Z. We should all agree to that, whether it is a true sports car like the Z is a matter of opinion. The 8 is a 4 seater, that doesn't qualify it to be a sports car though it may perform/handle like one.

As somebody who has been in 9 and 10 second cars and has a 10 second car, hearing people bragging about their 13/14/15 second cars seems funny to me. The reason why I hang out on the 350z forums is because I'm very interested in the VQ engine.