This is some confirmation of what some already knew....including Skyactiv Racing Engines...soon..

 

Mr O needs to lose some weight...heart attack around the corner.

 

But... is there anything about SkyActive that race teams don't already use? Creative piston crowns, long tube headers, high compression, etc...

 

talked about engineS, maybe diesel AND gasoline race engines....

 

The body weight is no joke though. Mazda's top brass could stand to have skyactiv approach to their personal chassis. My dietary consultation for top execs at Mazda will have very low cost .

Paul.

 

hmm, does it look like I give a @#@T!

Where is my next rotary ?

 

They should make a Skyactiv RX-8.

 

Do we even dare to hope it is rotary news?

 

I was watching one of the Rolex Series races, Barber I think, where the announcer said something about the 8's getting a new engine package next year, he did not finish the sentence, and never spoke of it again....

 

It was mentioned during the Barber and the Homestead races.

Speedsource has mentioned a few times that the existing 20b is not going to be used next year, and it will be "a unique new engine".

Speculation has everything from diesel engines (piston and rotary), 3-rotor with 1 rotor being used as a compressor for the other 2, the SkyActive R being fully tested, etc...

But, Speedsource has always been rotaries, so I believe it will stay that way.

 

Hybrid are allowed in GrandAm?

Hybrid Rotary maybe?

 

Possibly. Grand Am has certainly shifted their basic rules enough that I could see Grand-Am shifting to make them legal. I don't know that they are currently "illegal" though. It might be just a case of "not being addressed one way or another". For example, there are no fuel type rules I could find for the GT class that would explicitly allow or deny diesel. Hybrids may be the same way, or blocked through an "unrelated" rule.

Grand-Am bends the engine rules to allow the 20b (hasn't been available in a consumer car for quite some time), presumably to keep Mazda and the rotary in the series, so I can see them bending the rules in the other direction to allow in a rotary that is not yet available, but that Mazda plans on releasing to the public.

And this is my favorite theory

 

Battery hybrids are too heavy to race. There is almost no way that Mazda is putting forth anything competitive that is a hybrid in Grand Am GT.

You don't have to make something that sucks for racing illegal. The only way you start seeing Hybrids raced is in hybrid specific racing.

Its hard for me to believe that Mazda has invested any real effort at developing the developmental rotary into a powerplant capable of powering a car that competes with Ferrari/BMW/Chevy/Audi/Porsche. They're having trouble getting enough resources to develope it to be able to provide enough effeciency to make it a viable commuter car. It also makes no sense from a company standpoint to put forward a rotary powerplant for PR purposed when you don't have a timeline on when that powerplant will be put into a production model - even if it's tuned down a rotor. They could have potentially given prototypes to Speedsource to develop it into a crate 3-rotor for racing but again I'm having trouble seeing why anyone from Mazda would ok that. The reason you sponsor racing like GT is to sell cars or engines (or both!) that run in that race.

More likely they'll be putting forward an upgraded piston powerplant but again I am a little confused over what prodution car that is intended for. Even with tuning it seems a little difficult to believe that Mazda has something in the pipeline that can be competitive.

I am a lot more curious over whether or not they'll have to give up the RX8 body and what, if anything, Mazda is going to provide as a replacement. Grand Am could care less about the powerplant Mazda runs but they do want Mazda to continue to be a manufacture. They have gotten a lot of attention from European companies over the last year or so and Chevy has upped their attention as well (nothing like needing to find ways to spend their bailout) but Japanese companies (and Korean for that matter) have mostly stayed away. Losing Mazda would be a pretty big negative.

I'm also not sure how much of an impact it would be on Speedsource if they moved away from rotaries. It would obviously mean turnover for their engineers but from a racing standpoint the Rotary has caused a lot of issues with balancing against other manufactures - particularly with RPM limits and fuel cell capacity. A piston powerplant would go a long way to letting them balance more effectively.

It's my favorite too. I would miss hearing that engine amidst the porsche/ferrari/bmw/chevy powerplants.

But the rotary is the powerplant of choice for Mazda because Mazda has never made a piston powerplant that is even remotely competitive for Grand Am GT. Not because of any particular attachment that Mazda motorsports has for rotaries. If they've got a new piston powerplant capable of putting up the kinds of numbers necessary to compete in Grand Am then that would be a great PR move for them with all the SkyActive PR going on right now. It would also lead into the Mazda 6 replacement. If they're abandoning the RX platform for a few more years than possibly a 2-door MS6 for 2014 that can use this engine? Even that seems very hard to believe for me.

 

What makes anyone think that a new engine announcement for a racing series next year will be a rotary? I'd love for it to be but let's be realistic. There isn't one available to the public right now nor is there a rotary car that is available to the public anymore. Why would they have another new rotary race car with nothing to represent but the past? A manufacturer wants to represent their current technology that is available to be purchased and while they may be working on a skyactiv rotary, they don't currently offer it to the public.

My money will be on a new diesel or gasoline powered piston engine in a new race car that isn't an RX-8. Their next new car is going to be the new 6 so that would be the body style I'd expect to see however it isn't rear wheel drive and I would think you'd want to keep a race car rear wheel drive. Knowing that the chances are probably slim to see a new rotary race engine (at this time), I'd actually be a fan to see Mazda develop a diesel race engine. Don't let Audi have all the fun!

 

Regarding hybrids: You seem to be missing the whole facet of hybrids that are already out their racing in many of the world's top series. Indy Car (Push to pass is a hybrid technology), Formula1 (KERS), Lemans (several hybrids were fielded last year)...

Don't confuse "hybrid" with "Prius" or "Parallel Hybrid". Series Hybrid, or other forms of energy recapture, storage, and usage are still "hybrid" without having the added 1-2 tons of batteries needed for a consumer car to drive 30-40 miles.

Hybrid needs to expand in racing to find and develop the technology aspects of it that we, as enthusiasts, can greatly take advantage of and enjoy without killing the whole fun of it.

Regarding pistons:
The problem with the theory of them just fielding a piston "skyactive" engine is 2 fold:
1) The key word that keeps being used is "unique". High compression piston engine with long tube headers, direct injection, and creative piston overlap is hardly "unique" in the racing world. Mazda will be heavily laughed at by the other manufacturers if they claim a "unique" engine that has traits that everyone else has already been using for years.
2) Speedsource says it's a new "engine package". Not a new car. If it was a new chassis with engine, they wouldn't just say a new "engine package". So they are staying with the RX-8 chassis at least for year year (and legally can for at least the next 3 years under Grand-Am rules), but it's not going to have the high compression 20b that they have been using. It will be something else. It certainly COULD be a piston engine, but anything you suggest that is "typical" race technology has to automatically be ruled out because it simply doesn't fit "unique".

Simple answer in my head. Because they want to show that it's already winning on the track

They need PR for the next rotary. I think you would agree with me on that. What better fit with their whole "road car vs race car" commercial line than being able to introduce the next rotary with "this is the engine that has been winning in Grand-Am"?

It's really zero difference to other manufacturers that pull from their race developments technologies for the road. Just those changes are usually completely hidden from the public in the race cars for years ahead of time. Due to the nature of how a rotary's internals aren't simply "changed", it's a bigger deal for Mazda, but no less useful or important. The more Mazda can use the race circuit to test their engines, the better for everyone. Basically teams are paying Mazda to conduct the R+D testing on the engine under conditions that Mazda really can't simulate.

For all piston manufacturers, their newest piston tech is in their race cars. NOT their road cars. Should Mazda really be different in this regard?

See above for why it will still be the RX-8 chassis. And yes, diesel is one of the possibilities I see. I don't expect it, but acknowledge it's possibility.

The consumer drivetrain isn't important. The R8 that is in the field this year was converted from AWD to RWD to meet the requirements of the rules. Granted, going from AWD to RWD is simpler than FWD to RWD, but hardly prohibitive.

 

Perhaps you are reading into the word "unique" a bit too strongly. Perhaps what they mean is in fact a diesel and a Mazda one at that. That is pretty unique to me. I still say the RX-8 is a dead platform to base a race car on after this year. Sadly, it is. Hopes and dreams can't and won't change that. It's time is over and to be frank, it needs to retire for something current. Yes, current cars are absolutely relevant to race teams. If they weren't they they'd have run an RX-7 as opposed to an RX-8 which anyone should agree is a far better true sports car to base a race car on. The RX-7 is THE rotary sports car. The RX-8 is the rotary car that followed it.

 

I am reading into the word quite a bit. And I acknowledge that a diesel engine would certainly fit the "unique" word.

I have to disagree with you on the chassis however. The RX-8 is the lightest chassis in the GT field, ideal wheelbase and suspension geometry. They can keep using it for 3 more years under the rules, and there is ENTIRELY a reason to keep using the chassis as it's the lightest chassis allowed. Even if it has an entirely different engine in it. (which is legal in Grand-Am. Just look at the Porsche teams that didn't want the factory supplied flat 6s, and would go out, buy a V8 Porsche at the dealer, pull the engine and dump the chassis)

But, Speedsource has said a new engine. Has not said a new car. Other teams that are less successful with the RX-8 may move to other cars earlier.



I will avoid getting into a debate over which is better between the two consumer cars. Race rules will always make them relatively equal, since they have to be in order to be relatively equal to the rest of the field. If A = C, and C = D, and D = B, then A must equal B.

 

You seem to be contradicting yourself. If rules will always keep them relatively equal, there's really no reason to keep the current one. May as well represent a current road car.

 

I was just thinking that before you posted.

Yes, there are always differences. But, one car will not suddenly be completely superior to another within the same rule set. If it was, Grand-Am would adjust down the superior car, or up the inferior one. The FXDD Ferarri is starting off really strong this year, but that doesn't make it a superior car, just that the rules give it more allowance currently. It will likely get a performance adjustment before long. So, it simply would keep a theoretical RX-7 (FD) from really being a superior car to the RX-8 in the series. Certain points lend it an advantage on certain tracks, a disadvantage in others. It still must be balanced in the long run. Everything else is simply a matter of "how much the team / drivers like it".

 

What I was getting at with the mention of the RX-7 was that if the race car didn't need to represent a current car, why would they run an RX-8 when they could have run the last pure flagship rotary icon in the RX-7 instead? Being current definitely matters.

Those race cars are all purpose built tube framed cars anyways so they are really just shells. With that in mind it doesn't really matter what it represents since you could throw that suspension under anything else.

I really want to hear that there is a new rotary race car for next year but I can't see how or why they'd do it at this time. A piston skyactive platform makes far more sense than a skyactiv rotary that no one has ever seen and putting it in a car as stunning as the new 6 is going to be would only make even more sense considering it will be the brand new car this fall. It should stay rwd though. Race teams don't necessarily tell everything in the works and the danger in reading into anything that gets said is that it assumes that their plans won't change or that you actually heard everything. If we were in Las Vegas placing bets, I'd go all in against a rotary being announced as the next race engine and I'm a huge rotary fan.

 

Agreed, what isn't said is often highly critical.

I'd take the other side of the bet, and if I'm wrong, I have no problem in publicly saying "you were right".

 

Trust me when I say I have no problem being wrong here. I just can't logically see why they'd stick with a rotary right now though. Maybe they will. We'll probably find out soon either way.

 

I don't think logic has much place in determining the future of the rotary.

Logic would have resulted in Mazda dumping it long ago. But they refuse to (to which I am eternally grateful), and once that is accepted, then it makes all sorts of logical conclusions not quite as sure any more.

I really think Mazda would jump at getting one or more Grand-Am teams to use the next rotary before it hits the consumer market. And I would think that a team like Speedsource would jump at the chance to as well. Just gotta convince Grand-Am to bend the rules again, which isn't really that far of a stretch.

 

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...33#post4263133

Looks like we won't have to wait till next year....