Twin Turbo Mazda 6
07-15-2004, 10:31 AM
#52
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Originally Posted by AbusiveWombat
A good sequential turbo setup could reduce lag. Something that's very apparrent on a 4 cyclinder.
I'd also hold off on the "move over 4g63" until we actually see this engine and what it's capable of. The 4g63 has been out for over 10 years and is still the king of hp/L.
I'd also hold off on the "move over 4g63" until we actually see this engine and what it's capable of. The 4g63 has been out for over 10 years and is still the king of hp/L.
07-15-2004, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by RX8-TX
You should start talking to the S2K guys...they claim the F20C is the King of hp/L.....N/A of course. :D
07-15-2004, 11:37 AM
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nah, the 13B is still the king: 238/1.3 = 183.07 hp/L
eat that.
anyways, as was pointed out by my Digital Ruler, hp/L is a ricer excuse for having a slow car.
eat that.
anyways, as was pointed out by my Digital Ruler, hp/L is a ricer excuse for having a slow car.
07-15-2004, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by wakeech
nah, the 13B is still the king: 238/1.3 = 183.07 hp/L
eat that.
anyways, as was pointed out by my Digital Ruler, hp/L is a ricer excuse for having a slow car.
eat that.
anyways, as was pointed out by my Digital Ruler, hp/L is a ricer excuse for having a slow car.
07-15-2004, 04:27 PM
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truthfully guys, i do understand that ford really did help mazda out of some bad financial times in the last ten years or so. but i also beleive this, the projects and cars which ford has their thumb on in mazda are the appitomy of how mazda lost its sports car spirit for those same years. sure the sales of b2600/rangers, tribute/escapes (which are actually made by mazda in phillipines i think?), and mpv/freestars are moneys that help keep mazda rolling along. but it is the unique styling, good quality, mazda (not ford, its only their platforms and nothing else) engineering, and performance spirit that the new 2, 3, 6, mx-5 miata and rx-8 are really carrying along. even the sales show it, the monthly and annual %'s are up up up. i've never been a ford fan, and i can also see what i think is a dark cloud hovering near mazda. if ford were to ever buy up mazda completely, i wouldnt doubt that we would all vary sadly see an end to the rotary engine as we know it, as well as cars like the 4wd turbo ms6 we see in this thread. they have no interest that i've ever seen in the rotary, and they would have no reason to continue it. instead they would eliminate the rotary program and mazdas would finish becoming the same "cost effective" ford clones with different skins that we are seeing pop up all over the world. in my eyes, the longer mazda can hold its own, the stronger it will become, and the more spirit we will see. don't get me wrong, a partnership is good for business, competition is even better, but a parasitic relationship where one side reaps most is not. in conclusion, i think continuing this generation of rotary developement in the 8 and the new 7 (hopefully) will hinge upon this ford factor. God speed that it will swing the way of our beloved rotary.
Last edited by doubleohsmurf; 07-15-2004 at 04:31 PM.
07-15-2004, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by wakeech
nah, the 13B is still the king: 238/1.3 = 183.07 hp/L
eat that.
anyways, as was pointed out by my Digital Ruler, hp/L is a ricer excuse for having a slow car.
eat that.
anyways, as was pointed out by my Digital Ruler, hp/L is a ricer excuse for having a slow car.
Originally Posted by shelleys_man_06
...it's a cry the Honda kids use to conceal the fact that their car is slow...
07-15-2004, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by wakeech
nah, the 13B is still the king: 238/1.3 = 183.07 hp/L
eat that.
eat that.
07-15-2004, 05:08 PM
#61
Originally Posted by doubleohsmurf
truthfully guys, i do understand that ford really did help mazda out of some bad financial times in the last ten years or so. but i also beleive this, the projects and cars which ford has their thumb on in mazda are the appitomy of how mazda lost its sports car spirit for those same years. sure the sales of b2600/rangers, tribute/escapes (which are actually made by mazda in phillipines i think?), and mpv/freestars are moneys that help keep mazda rolling along. but it is the unique styling, good quality, mazda (not ford, its only their platforms and nothing else) engineering, and performance spirit that the new 2, 3, 6, mx-5 miata and rx-8 are really carrying along. even the sales show it, the monthly and annual %'s are up up up. i've never been a ford fan, and i can also see what i think is a dark cloud hovering near mazda. if ford were to ever buy up mazda completely, i wouldnt doubt that we would all vary sadly see an end to the rotary engine as we know it, as well as cars like the 4wd turbo ms6 we see in this thread. they have no interest that i've ever seen in the rotary, and they would have no reason to continue it. instead they would eliminate the rotary program and mazdas would finish becoming the same "cost effective" ford clones with different skins that we are seeing pop up all over the world. in my eyes, the longer mazda can hold its own, the stronger it will become, and the more spirit we will see. don't get me wrong, a partnership is good for business, competition is even better, but a parasitic relationship where one side reaps most is not. in conclusion, i think continuing this generation of rotary developement in the 8 and the new 7 (hopefully) will hinge upon this ford factor. God speed that it will swing the way of our beloved rotary.
07-15-2004, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ZoomZoomH
actually, Ford is intending to move Mazda UP in the car market into the sporty/high-end realm with a higher profit margin, a la Volkswagen. Case in point: the Mazda3 is worlds above its other Japanese compact car counterparts, and actually resembles more with the Jetta/Golf line of premium level compacts.
07-15-2004, 10:07 PM
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Nissan Licensing The 4WD Tech....
I knew I read this somewhere...
NISSAN TO LICENSE ELECTRIC 4WD SYSTEM TO MAZDA.
TOKYO, July 17, Asia Pulse - Nissan Motor Co. (TSE:7201) will license to Mazda Motor Corp. (TSE:7261) an electric four-wheel-drive (4WD) system jointly developed with Hitachi Ltd. (TSE:6501) and others, The Nihon Keizai Shimbun learned Wednesday. The electric system uses the engine to operate the front axle and an electric motor to power the rear axle.
The electricity for the motor is generated through the engine.
Hitachi developed the motor while Tochigi Fuji Industrial Co. (TSE:7258) developed the gear mechanism for the rear axle.
Standard 4WD systems transfer engine output to the rear axle through such parts as propeller shafts.
The electric system eliminates the need for these parts, enabling the vehicle to be lighter and have a larger interior.
By reducing the number of parts to less than 100 - one-third of standard 4WD systems - production costs will also be lowered.
Nissan, which is licensing the system for the first time, hopes to bolster its parts business by generating patent-related income.
The company also expects to lower parts procurement costs through volume production.
Thursday, July 17, 2003
NISSAN TO LICENSE ELECTRIC 4WD SYSTEM TO MAZDA.
TOKYO, July 17, Asia Pulse - Nissan Motor Co. (TSE:7201) will license to Mazda Motor Corp. (TSE:7261) an electric four-wheel-drive (4WD) system jointly developed with Hitachi Ltd. (TSE:6501) and others, The Nihon Keizai Shimbun learned Wednesday. The electric system uses the engine to operate the front axle and an electric motor to power the rear axle.
The electricity for the motor is generated through the engine.
Hitachi developed the motor while Tochigi Fuji Industrial Co. (TSE:7258) developed the gear mechanism for the rear axle.
Standard 4WD systems transfer engine output to the rear axle through such parts as propeller shafts.
The electric system eliminates the need for these parts, enabling the vehicle to be lighter and have a larger interior.
By reducing the number of parts to less than 100 - one-third of standard 4WD systems - production costs will also be lowered.
Nissan, which is licensing the system for the first time, hopes to bolster its parts business by generating patent-related income.
The company also expects to lower parts procurement costs through volume production.
07-15-2004, 10:12 PM
#68
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Originally Posted by ALMOST8IT
I knew I read this somewhere...
NISSAN TO LICENSE ELECTRIC 4WD SYSTEM TO MAZDA.
TOKYO, July 17, Asia Pulse - Nissan Motor Co. (TSE:7201) will license to Mazda Motor Corp. (TSE:7261) an electric four-wheel-drive (4WD) system jointly developed with Hitachi Ltd. (TSE:6501) and others, The Nihon Keizai Shimbun learned Wednesday. The electric system uses the engine to operate the front axle and an electric motor to power the rear axle.
The electricity for the motor is generated through the engine.
Hitachi developed the motor while Tochigi Fuji Industrial Co. (TSE:7258) developed the gear mechanism for the rear axle.
Standard 4WD systems transfer engine output to the rear axle through such parts as propeller shafts.
The electric system eliminates the need for these parts, enabling the vehicle to be lighter and have a larger interior.
By reducing the number of parts to less than 100 - one-third of standard 4WD systems - production costs will also be lowered.
Nissan, which is licensing the system for the first time, hopes to bolster its parts business by generating patent-related income.
The company also expects to lower parts procurement costs through volume production.
Thursday, July 17, 2003
NISSAN TO LICENSE ELECTRIC 4WD SYSTEM TO MAZDA.
TOKYO, July 17, Asia Pulse - Nissan Motor Co. (TSE:7201) will license to Mazda Motor Corp. (TSE:7261) an electric four-wheel-drive (4WD) system jointly developed with Hitachi Ltd. (TSE:6501) and others, The Nihon Keizai Shimbun learned Wednesday. The electric system uses the engine to operate the front axle and an electric motor to power the rear axle.
The electricity for the motor is generated through the engine.
Hitachi developed the motor while Tochigi Fuji Industrial Co. (TSE:7258) developed the gear mechanism for the rear axle.
Standard 4WD systems transfer engine output to the rear axle through such parts as propeller shafts.
The electric system eliminates the need for these parts, enabling the vehicle to be lighter and have a larger interior.
By reducing the number of parts to less than 100 - one-third of standard 4WD systems - production costs will also be lowered.
Nissan, which is licensing the system for the first time, hopes to bolster its parts business by generating patent-related income.
The company also expects to lower parts procurement costs through volume production.
07-15-2004, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ALMOST8IT
I knew I read this somewhere...
NISSAN TO LICENSE ELECTRIC 4WD SYSTEM TO MAZDA.
TOKYO, July 17, Asia Pulse - Nissan Motor Co. (TSE:7201) will license to Mazda Motor Corp. (TSE:7261) an electric four-wheel-drive (4WD) system jointly developed with Hitachi Ltd. (TSE:6501) and others, The Nihon Keizai Shimbun learned Wednesday. The electric system uses the engine to operate the front axle and an electric motor to power the rear axle.
The electricity for the motor is generated through the engine.
Hitachi developed the motor while Tochigi Fuji Industrial Co. (TSE:7258) developed the gear mechanism for the rear axle.
Standard 4WD systems transfer engine output to the rear axle through such parts as propeller shafts.
The electric system eliminates the need for these parts, enabling the vehicle to be lighter and have a larger interior.
By reducing the number of parts to less than 100 - one-third of standard 4WD systems - production costs will also be lowered.
Nissan, which is licensing the system for the first time, hopes to bolster its parts business by generating patent-related income.
The company also expects to lower parts procurement costs through volume production.
Thursday, July 17, 2003
NISSAN TO LICENSE ELECTRIC 4WD SYSTEM TO MAZDA.
TOKYO, July 17, Asia Pulse - Nissan Motor Co. (TSE:7201) will license to Mazda Motor Corp. (TSE:7261) an electric four-wheel-drive (4WD) system jointly developed with Hitachi Ltd. (TSE:6501) and others, The Nihon Keizai Shimbun learned Wednesday. The electric system uses the engine to operate the front axle and an electric motor to power the rear axle.
The electricity for the motor is generated through the engine.
Hitachi developed the motor while Tochigi Fuji Industrial Co. (TSE:7258) developed the gear mechanism for the rear axle.
Standard 4WD systems transfer engine output to the rear axle through such parts as propeller shafts.
The electric system eliminates the need for these parts, enabling the vehicle to be lighter and have a larger interior.
By reducing the number of parts to less than 100 - one-third of standard 4WD systems - production costs will also be lowered.
Nissan, which is licensing the system for the first time, hopes to bolster its parts business by generating patent-related income.
The company also expects to lower parts procurement costs through volume production.
This system is used on the Nissan March in japan and potentially to be on the new GTR. The AWD system I was thinking of is ATTESA-ETS pro. I would be great for weight saving but hopefully with some many moving parts and motors it would be reliable.
07-15-2004, 11:08 PM
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I found another source for the info regarding the Mazda license from Nissan. Warning, the first link is in a PDF file....
Mazda Nissan News
Mazda Nissan - German Source
I also remember reading that a version of this would be used in the MS 6, though given that it is used in the Demio it seems unlikely.
Mazda Nissan News
Mazda Nissan - German Source
I also remember reading that a version of this would be used in the MS 6, though given that it is used in the Demio it seems unlikely.
07-16-2004, 12:25 AM
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The only electronic-type AWD system I know of from Nissan is the ATTESA, to which Hanzo already explained. Could it be possible to retrofit it into a Mazda 6? Can anyone please explain how the newest version of ATTESA works? I stopped caring about their AWD option since Nissan never intended to sell the Skyline here. Does the G35 sedan employ ATTESA? Also, I'm concerned that Mazda may be BS-ing their numbers. Though it is attainable, Mazda is notorious for lying about power figures (anyone remember the Miata and the RX-8?). And of course, when you lie about those, you instantly lose customer interest.
07-16-2004, 12:27 AM
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Oh never mind about explaining ATTESA-ETS. I just remembered (also called using a search engine). Will or has Nissan upgraded its computer to a 32-bit microprocessor for its AWD system?
07-16-2004, 02:03 AM
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I dont get it, why not the Mazda 3 with this setup? Lighter and much closer to the Impreza and Lancer level. MS Mazda 6 would look like a college guy challenging a High Schooler. Only the College guy is heavier.
07-16-2004, 09:16 AM
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I agree, a MS 6 would seem to be quite big in relation to the Impreza WRX STI and the Lancer Evolution. An MS 3 would be the more appropriate competitor...
07-16-2004, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Xyntax
I dont get it, why not the Mazda 3 with this setup? Lighter and much closer to the Impreza and Lancer level. MS Mazda 6 would look like a college guy challenging a High Schooler. Only the College guy is heavier.
How would it stack up? Who knows: Subaru & Mitsu have been making, selling and competing with AWD & similar engine setups for a while. They have quite some experience in doing what they do.
Nonetheless, I was very happy after driving a 6 loaner. The car felt very well planted. On the power arena...well, not too much to experience, since it was an automatic. If all they do is improve on the power and how power is put to the ground, it can only be another GREAT car. Hope it stays below the $30K's