Ok this is what i was trying to say last night .....


Yes, sure Mazda is upping their HP numbers but you will NOT see them getting into the game of one upping nissan or mitsu. That is something they have never done and more than likely never will. Instead of looking at purely the HP numbers calculate the weight/hp ratios and you will see that mazda, while being underpowered, has always been in the ballpark of their competition. With the other companies going nuts over HP in the last few years Mazda has started falling behind in that game, hence they are upping their levels. But they are not going to give you a 350HP VQ motor out of the box. What you can expect to see is something with roughly the same 11-12lbs/hp rating out of either the next gen 8 or MS 8 or whatever.

I also find it interesting that yesterday it was mentioned again abot the Kabura getting the Renesis as a sports option. If you do the math on the ~24-2600/b car with the ~230bhp you fal right into that ~10-12lb/hp

 

Something they have never done? You sure? Have you ever heard of the RX-7? The Millenian made to compete with flagship sedans?

 

i just hope that the new supras and z will create soem competition for the gtr and help lower its price? yeah the gtr will come strage out with everything but ther maybe be more tunning potential in the other cars? then again i am sure people will tune the gtr as well to crazy numbers.

 

what were the HP numbers on the 7 compared to the 3000GT the 300ZTT and supras of the time? and anything else "in its class" that it was compared to?

 

I would look more towards Mitsubishi and Subaru if you want something to give the new GTR a run for its money. It would seem that Toyota doesn't want to play that game anymore, and Nissan isn't stupid enough to shoot themselves in the foot like that.

 

the 3000gt was 320 hp as well as the supra the 300zx was 300 the NSX was 272 , the mazda was 255. but all of those cars weight was much higer than the mazda.

 

exactly. that has been my point. Mazda is not playing the "who has the bigger horsepower *****" game. They dont pay attention to raw HP numbers. What they have proven that they care about way more is the weight/HP ratio. That was my entire point the whole time.

 

Yes, if all they gave a **** about was straight line performance, the 2.3 liter turbo going into the 3100 pound Mazdaspeed 3 would have found its way into the 2500 pound Mazdaspeed MX-5.

 

^ Too bad the mx5 wont be 2500lbs after teh swap .turbo components are heavy and so are supped up drivetrains.

 

That's Mazda's loss. It's easier to put more powerful engine into a car than to try to put it on slimfast.

Why couldn't they make the RX-8 2700-2800 pounds? Because it would be ridiculously hard to make the car any lighter, as well as expensive.

And like Jerky said, Mazda seems to have some sense knocked into them (MS6). Hopefully their next rotary car will be able to keep up with the competition in terms of acceleration - one of the biggest benchmark for sports cars. Or they can keep making cars with sub-200whp and have only moderate sales at best, and then say they're all about handling and the twisties - when they have always had the option to be BOTH. Worked for the RX-7.

I know with emissions this is a problem with the RX-8 and to make a turbo-ed RX-8 that passes is probably not likely. So yes, they can go lighter with the Kabura and maybe offer a Renesis option. Will it happen? That might not be one of Mazda's goals.

As for me....waiting on Pettit or Mazsport.

 

My only concern is that , you buy a turbo upgrade from Greddy, Mazsport or petit, the question still lies at hand? Will your 8 or my 8 be competitive with the other competition? Just like Ike brought out, yeah your 8 may be modified, but you pull up to a Evo with a 1k dollars of mods, you spent 5k+ on a turbo kit, and still see tailights.....you then have to ask yourself , is this car even worth to mod?

Or do you start fresh and buy something that is capable from the get go....

Its like my buddy who had a 95 civic coupe with a turbo , he was no competition to my Stage III borderline Stage IV TTZ. He blew major money on a car that was slow from the get go, made it fast, but would still see tail lights from faster more powerful cars that came out the box already to run, yet could be made faster with the available mods for them.

Same thing applies to 8, the 8 is slow by todays standards, slap a turbo or S/C,it suddenly becomes fast, but not fast enough to cars that already have that mod potential to make them even faster. So wether stock vs stock or modified vs modified, the 8 will still be lagging.

I love my 8, but it ticks me off that Mazda(and maybe i am assuming) seems like they are not trying to evolve the 8. New colors, interior choices, etc, don't cut it.Even if Mazda added 40 HP like somebody mentioned in a previous post and and the weight went up between 50-150lbs in a new 8 or went down, i would buy one. 40 true HP (bring the renisis to 272HP)would be a night and day diffrence from hit and miss 5-10HP overlypriced mods for this car.

I guess that is the same reason why i haven't modified this car performance (and me who loves to modify my cars), spending big $$$ on minimal gains makes me feel like my buddy with his 95 coupe adding a turbo.It seems a little pointless....i rather add my wheels, suspension , rear lip spoiler and call it the day with the 8 and enjoy it for its uniqueness and handeling prowlness. To me, my best mod is myself learning how to drive the 8 to its limits.

 

well, take a look around. There is not a whole lot of weight to drop off the 8 and still leave it the same size that it is. Also look around the market place....it is 3-800lbs lighter than any of its competition. Yes in recent years mazda has fallen behind in the weight/hp ratios but they are working on correcting that. and even though they are beind on the ratios and power their cars are still competitive in the areas they are designed to be because of what they have done right. suspension, chasis and brakes. I would much rather get an underpowered car with a great suspension and chasis setup than a powerful car with a weak chasis and crap suspension. Power is a lot easier to make than to get stiffness into a weak chasis. I think mazda is doing a good job.

 

I don't know if the cause is Ford executives screwing around with Mazda about the rotary engine or Mazda being lazy and scared, but there is really no excuse for not having an Mazdaspeed RX-8.

Mazda does not have to have HP numbers greater than the 350Z or EVO, it simply has to beat its OWN hatchbacks and family cars. Got damn it, a Mazdaspeed3 and Mazdaspeed6 can or are way too close to handing the RX-8 (the company's own flagship sports car) its own *** in 0-60 and the 1/4 mile. That is simply plain ridiculous.

Now, where does the RX-8 need to be at to be superior to the Mazdaspeed3 or Mazdaspeed6? It needs to get its numbers up to a TRUE 275+ bhp/SAE hp. The 275 HP to 300 HP range is where its at (of course the closer to 300 bhp or above, the more love people would have for the kit). That is really not so hard and it appears the easiest way to do it is via a supercharger kit.

If Mazdaspeed had a bolt on supercharger kit for the RX-8 that was under warranty, than that kit should sell pretty well.

At this point, Mazda does not even have to develop its own, but endorse one of the supercharger kits that are already out and have a couple of their techs helping to tune it. One of the twinscrew kits/concepts (Hymee, Pettit, Japanese version, or their own), with the help of Mazda techs tuning it, should produce enough HP gain to make it worth while for RX-8 customers.

Mazda needs to come out with a 275+ HP Mazdaspeed RX-8 that is faster than anything else that MAZDA is offering (which includes its own hatchback and family car). That is all Mazda really has to do. Simply make the Mazdaspeed RX-8, the fastest car that MAZDA is offering and not have its flagship sports car embarrassed by hatchbacks and family cars in its product line.

The mod wars are never ending. If people want massive gains from the RX-8 or any car for that matter, the best bet are going to pro-tuners (unless you are one). Then they can seek to get an RX-8 to have 400 WHP. Mazda, simply should be making sure that the Mazdaspeed RX-8 is the fastest car they produce. 275+ HP is not that hard for Mazda to do. Its nearly a crime that they have not done so already.

 

Some time back there was a article by re-amemiya. He said rotaries are hard to tune. Oh well.

 

If they were.. there wouldnt be so many high powered rotaries out there.. re-amemiya wouldnt have so many customers either ...

 

Well said. Agree 100%.

 

well said!

 

Just to confirm this, I happened upon the Nov issue of R&T. They said that the Supra is slated for a mid 2008 release with V6 and potentially V8 engines. They also mentioned that the V6 may get a DSG. I dunno if any of this is true, but it's in there.

Seems like 2008 is going to be a year of many fun new cars.

 

SayNoToPistons : ur correct in many ways, and i do wish MS would come out with a s/c kit. But thats just not going to happen. Im glad there are people out there that have started to put money into research for a supercharger for the rx8. Mazda isn't doing there homework and we have known this for a while. Which is why i have stopped the hope for that to come true. But think of it like this if the car came stock with the supercharger there woulnd't be much to do. Whats the fun in that. Yes the 350z is faster due to HP and so is the evo! just think thow. RWD vs rwd. kinda unfair as it is. EVO is only comfortable to sit in. NOT TO DRIVE DAILY!. 350z ,RWD but only 2 seats with 300hp *so they say* after driveing a hour its very uncomofortable. The rx8,RWD, 4 seats, 232hp , superiour handling and with so much more potential. The rx8 was really researched and was done right! Yes they could have done a little more UMPH to it BUT! lol i like that word. HOnestly whats the fun in putting a twinturbo kit on then haveing to replace this then this then this then this then this. like what my friend had to do for his 350z which is still in the shop now accually. My point is, be creative and work what mazda has given you. a turbo kit on a rx8 would easly keep up with a tt350z in driveing in general and drag.

 

What? the evo is awd... its a 4 door sedan..

 

I guess I should stop daily driving my Evo... What does the RX-8 have more potential than? You're dreaming if you think an RX-8 with any of the turbo kits available would keep up with a TT350Z.

 

^I thought TT dont make your car fast lol

 

Thats the truth...... read back to my last post about my buddy adding a turbo to his civic. Your making a slow car go faster, but its still not fast enough when other car are alreay at that level, and then mod those same cars , it takes them to even greater levels. Apply this to the RX-8.

The key here is Mazda to get off the lazy butts and put some heartfelt R&D into the rotary and get a true 40-50HP increase. A RX-8 at 2800lbs with 272-275Hp N/A is going to a tuff cookie to beat. It would automatically bring the RX-8 into a compettive class amongst the 350Z, S2000, Porsche BoxterS, Evo , Sti, NeonSRT, etc.
Even if the 350Z does get that boost in HP to 350 next year. Its weight is going to be borderline 3500lbs......its already teetering close 3400lbs with 300HP.

If the RX-8 ever did get those numbers and that weight , i think it would be a hit among car enthusiast, that is the 275HP/2800lbs.

 

come on man, its you guys that complained about gaz mailage. can you imaging the gas milgae on the three rotor?... to me i dont mind. but type gas in search and look at the threads that come up. look how many

 

theres a lot of way's a 3 rotor can be made to give decent gas milage, one of the problems with the rx-8 is its gearing, 4.44 dif is not your friend when it comes to fuel consuption