Would you buy this Scion?
04-22-2011, 10:17 PM
#51
If the LFA was exactly the same in every single way with the exception of having a scion badge? I'd pretty much be just as likely to buy it with a scion badge as I would be with a lexus badge. I would, admittedly, prefer it wasn't badged scion, but I wouldn't let that affect my buying decision. The car's actual merits should matter more.
The only reason it should matter is as a sign of status, and that's something I don't care about a whole lot. The same exact car with a different name really doesn't change my decision process a whole lot. If I'm spending thousands of dollars on something, I'd prefer to just deal with debading or rebadging to suit my tastes rather than just completely not purchase the product, assuming it fits my needs/wants better.
Keep in mind, the discussions so far have basically said that because of the name alone, they would not purchase the vehicle. It doesn't make a comparison to other vehicles of similar value or anything. I could understand being influenced by brand preference in a reasonably close comparison, but to dismiss a car, regardless of the quality, because of the brand name is kind of stupid, in my opinion.
I would say Scion's line looks cool/unique in some way. But Quality wise, I would rather get myself a Camry instead.
LV, at least in my perception, is a status symbol. I believe the reason LV bags are sought after is more driven by the status of the product name rather than the quality or other merits of the bag. The pricing on those seem to be artificially high if you only look at the actual merits of the bag, ignoring the name. Being a status symbol product, you do not get that value out of an Old Navy bag, therefore the product is not on an equal level.
If you are unwilling to buy a better car because it is a certain brand, then that also indicates that you are willing to buy a shittier car, because it's some other brand. I try to make the most of my money, with as little regard to brand name as possible. It's definitely true that some brands will produce better or worse products than others, but there are exceptions to many brands. Optimally, brand should not be a factor. A better product is better. An equal product is equal. A worse product is worse. The brand name on any of those will not change the actual quality of a product.
Brand almost always means rather if its a "*******" car or a "better" car.
Even if the body is the same, the material inside/outside will be different. that's why its 2 different brand. Its just different.
Scion brand is made with crap material.
If the subbie version is better when you consider all the factors, such as price, performance, and quality, then you've made the correct decision. If the subbie is equal, then you've gone with brand preference, and there's nothing wrong with that. If the subbie is a worse car (by a level of significance), then you've made the wrong decision, but ended up with the brand of your choice. It's fine that you're happy with your brand, I'd rather be happy with my better car.
As a marketing decision, it's hard to tell at this point. That will depend a lot on price point and actual production details of the car. It's a bit early to make that call I think.
if 16X has about 300hp, same if not better than current MPG. I'm sold.
otherwise. I probably just gonna get myself the next Plug-in Prius or the SkyActiv-D car whatever it is.
I've also read all your posts about being anti-Scion, nycgps.
You reminded of article about the odd variance in brand perception for Scion in the US. I tried to find it, but I couldn't. Basically, using sales numbers, the farther north/north east you go in the US and into Canada, the less popular they are.
In Texas, they're not selling amazingly well, but there's not this ridiculous stigma attached them, either. Nobody cares. It's just another car called a Scion, and we accept where it fits in the compact/youth brand market.
Where is this "brand hatred" coming from in New York? I don't understand it. It's weird.
You reminded of article about the odd variance in brand perception for Scion in the US. I tried to find it, but I couldn't. Basically, using sales numbers, the farther north/north east you go in the US and into Canada, the less popular they are.
In Texas, they're not selling amazingly well, but there's not this ridiculous stigma attached them, either. Nobody cares. It's just another car called a Scion, and we accept where it fits in the compact/youth brand market.
Where is this "brand hatred" coming from in New York? I don't understand it. It's weird.
About Scion, Toyota actually did it very right, they successfully separate and move the younger group into it. So they can market them as : Scion is the "younger/hippie" brand that the major buyers are under the age of 25, Toyota is "Quality/Reliable/Mature" that targets the 25+, and Lexus as "Classy/Quality" that's rich(er) and demand more than just reliable(like some luxury and sometimes useless stuff, like headlight wiper)
Anyway, no I will not buy this Scion
04-22-2011, 10:46 PM
#52
April 20, 2011 - New York - Scion unveiled the rear-wheel drive FR-S Concept sports coupe to- day at the 2011 New York International Auto Show. The concept, which sets out to stimulate the souls of true driving enthusiasts, will be at the Scion display through May 1. The FR-S Concept will inspire a new model coming to the Scion brand next year.
The FR-S Concept, which stands for Front-engine, Rear-wheel drive, Sport; is Scion's defini- tion of an authentic rear-wheel-drive sports car with compelling style, exceptionally balanced perfor- mance and handling, flexible utility and surprising MPG.
"Scion is always experimenting with new things," said Jack Hollis, Scion vice president. "The brand is iconic with the xB, adrenalized by the tC, and groundbreaking with the iQ. The FR-S will expand the brand into yet another new dimension that I know it is truly destined for."
The FR-S is a true "scion," born into a lengthy history of Toyota performance cars and motor- sports. The sports coupe is most inspired by the AE86 generation of the Corolla, better known as the Hachi-Roku, meaning "8-6" in Japanese. The front-engine, rear-wheel drive coupe was lightweight and well balanced, making it a solid choice for driving enthusiasts.
Inspired by the AE86, the FR-S is built around the core goal of achieving "pure balance," which begins with the strategic placement of a flat 2.0-liter boxer engine in a front-engine, rear-wheel drive configuration. The engine's compact size and shape allows the FR-S' powertrain to be mounted lower and further back towards the rear, giving the car a lower center of gravity and a dynamically favorable front-to-rear weight ratio.
The FR-S' naturally-aspirated engine is innovative, being the first boxer to incorporate Toyota's D4-S injection system, which utilizes both direct and port injection, resulting in increased horsepower and torque throughout the entire powerband, without sacrificing MPG.
The flat-four can mate with either a six-speed manual or a six-speed automatic transmission. The manual offers quick and precise shifts with a short-throw, while the automatic transmission features aggressive, sporty shifts that are initiated by steering- wheel-mounted paddle shifters. Power is distributed effectively via a limited-slip differential.
The idea of "pure balance" is further realized by the FR-S' lightweight design and short wheelbase. The combination allows the car to be quick and nimble into and out of any corner, with dynamic maneuverability and confident stability.
"Akio Toyoda has mentioned that he is going to bring the fun-to-drive spirit back to Toyota," Hollis said. "I know that the Scion FR-S Concept is one of the ways that he plans to accomplish that." The fierce exterior of the FR-S is a good reflection of its inner power. The intimidating proportions of the concept give it a dominant stance that bleeds performance. The profile, inspired by the Toyota 2000GT, reveals a hood-line that is remarkably sleek and low, made possible by the boxer's architecture.
The low stance continues to exaggerate the FR-S' menacing face, which is made up of sharp lines, a wide mouth and angular headlights that include bright LED clusters.
The solid panel roofline is sleek, lightweight and rigid, slotted with an aerodynamic shape that channels air cleanly over to the top.
The front fenders protrude upward, making space for the massive monoblock Five Axis 20x8.5-inch wheels, while the muscular rear fenders are widened to house the 20x10.5-inch wheels, emphasizing the FR-S' staggered stance and rear-wheel-drive setup.
The rear fascia sits low and wide, with extensive lower treatments that surround the dual exhaust exits and contribute to excellent aerodynamics. LEDs illuminate both the edgy taillights and the bold "SCION" logo.
The concept features four-piston-caliper front brakes that clamp down on monstrous 18-inch annular carbon ceramic matrix rotors that are fixed to the wheels in a motorcycle-fashion. The FR-S Concept is layered in rich coats of Code Red, the appropriately named color that consists of a custom blend of candy and a developmental additive from BASF called Mearlite SSQ
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In Detail
submitted by admin
type Concept / Prototype Car
released at 2011 New York Auto Show
engine Boxer-4
fuel feed D4-S Direct & Indirect Injection
driven wheels RWD
wheel type monoblock Five Axis
front wheels F 50.8 x 26.7 cm / 20 x 10.5 in
rear wheels R 50.8 x 26.7 cm / 20 x 10.5 in
The FR-S Concept, which stands for Front-engine, Rear-wheel drive, Sport; is Scion's defini- tion of an authentic rear-wheel-drive sports car with compelling style, exceptionally balanced perfor- mance and handling, flexible utility and surprising MPG.
"Scion is always experimenting with new things," said Jack Hollis, Scion vice president. "The brand is iconic with the xB, adrenalized by the tC, and groundbreaking with the iQ. The FR-S will expand the brand into yet another new dimension that I know it is truly destined for."
The FR-S is a true "scion," born into a lengthy history of Toyota performance cars and motor- sports. The sports coupe is most inspired by the AE86 generation of the Corolla, better known as the Hachi-Roku, meaning "8-6" in Japanese. The front-engine, rear-wheel drive coupe was lightweight and well balanced, making it a solid choice for driving enthusiasts.
Inspired by the AE86, the FR-S is built around the core goal of achieving "pure balance," which begins with the strategic placement of a flat 2.0-liter boxer engine in a front-engine, rear-wheel drive configuration. The engine's compact size and shape allows the FR-S' powertrain to be mounted lower and further back towards the rear, giving the car a lower center of gravity and a dynamically favorable front-to-rear weight ratio.
The FR-S' naturally-aspirated engine is innovative, being the first boxer to incorporate Toyota's D4-S injection system, which utilizes both direct and port injection, resulting in increased horsepower and torque throughout the entire powerband, without sacrificing MPG.
The flat-four can mate with either a six-speed manual or a six-speed automatic transmission. The manual offers quick and precise shifts with a short-throw, while the automatic transmission features aggressive, sporty shifts that are initiated by steering- wheel-mounted paddle shifters. Power is distributed effectively via a limited-slip differential.
The idea of "pure balance" is further realized by the FR-S' lightweight design and short wheelbase. The combination allows the car to be quick and nimble into and out of any corner, with dynamic maneuverability and confident stability.
"Akio Toyoda has mentioned that he is going to bring the fun-to-drive spirit back to Toyota," Hollis said. "I know that the Scion FR-S Concept is one of the ways that he plans to accomplish that." The fierce exterior of the FR-S is a good reflection of its inner power. The intimidating proportions of the concept give it a dominant stance that bleeds performance. The profile, inspired by the Toyota 2000GT, reveals a hood-line that is remarkably sleek and low, made possible by the boxer's architecture.
The low stance continues to exaggerate the FR-S' menacing face, which is made up of sharp lines, a wide mouth and angular headlights that include bright LED clusters.
The solid panel roofline is sleek, lightweight and rigid, slotted with an aerodynamic shape that channels air cleanly over to the top.
The front fenders protrude upward, making space for the massive monoblock Five Axis 20x8.5-inch wheels, while the muscular rear fenders are widened to house the 20x10.5-inch wheels, emphasizing the FR-S' staggered stance and rear-wheel-drive setup.
The rear fascia sits low and wide, with extensive lower treatments that surround the dual exhaust exits and contribute to excellent aerodynamics. LEDs illuminate both the edgy taillights and the bold "SCION" logo.
The concept features four-piston-caliper front brakes that clamp down on monstrous 18-inch annular carbon ceramic matrix rotors that are fixed to the wheels in a motorcycle-fashion. The FR-S Concept is layered in rich coats of Code Red, the appropriately named color that consists of a custom blend of candy and a developmental additive from BASF called Mearlite SSQ
Used cars for sale from our partners at Lemonfree.comForum
add topic
In Detail
submitted by admin
type Concept / Prototype Car
released at 2011 New York Auto Show
engine Boxer-4
fuel feed D4-S Direct & Indirect Injection
driven wheels RWD
wheel type monoblock Five Axis
front wheels F 50.8 x 26.7 cm / 20 x 10.5 in
rear wheels R 50.8 x 26.7 cm / 20 x 10.5 in
04-22-2011, 11:05 PM
#53
I hate how they always bring "AE86" up for no reason.
I mean come on it has nothing to do with AE86, InitialD bought it up and Toyota use it every so often now.
I mean AE86 was good but ... most people have no idea what AE86 is ... marketing marketing ...
I mean come on it has nothing to do with AE86, InitialD bought it up and Toyota use it every so often now.
I mean AE86 was good but ... most people have no idea what AE86 is ... marketing marketing ...
04-23-2011, 04:29 AM
#54
you might, but 99% of the people won't. That's just how it is. rather you agreed or not.
Scion usually have inferior quality even when comparing to the Toyota "brand" alone. Its target towards younger market, which usually doesn't care about quality too much ... they want "looks" more than anything.
I would say Scion's line looks cool/unique in some way. But Quality wise, I would rather get myself a Camry instead.
when LV first started, it was about quality/craftsmanship/handmade bag/products. Like Warren Buffet said, takes 20 yrs to build reputation ... My friend has all LV bags (yep ... and he is just middle class) and he (YEP, LV is not just for women) said the reason why he get it because their **** last forever. I even seen it myself, it doesn't matter what you spill/pour/drag/etc do to it. it just won't break/discolor/etc. of course it won't survive if you just put it thru a shredder. but thats how LV got its "status" from. Its not a product that just ridiculously priced in the beginning.
Agreed, but even when the car going to be build on the same production line, the material they use will be different.
Brand almost always means rather if its a "*******" car or a "better" car.
Even if the body is the same, the material inside/outside will be different. that's why its 2 different brand. Its just different.
Scion brand is made with crap material.
Scion usually have inferior quality even when comparing to the Toyota "brand" alone. Its target towards younger market, which usually doesn't care about quality too much ... they want "looks" more than anything.
I would say Scion's line looks cool/unique in some way. But Quality wise, I would rather get myself a Camry instead.
when LV first started, it was about quality/craftsmanship/handmade bag/products. Like Warren Buffet said, takes 20 yrs to build reputation ... My friend has all LV bags (yep ... and he is just middle class) and he (YEP, LV is not just for women) said the reason why he get it because their **** last forever. I even seen it myself, it doesn't matter what you spill/pour/drag/etc do to it. it just won't break/discolor/etc. of course it won't survive if you just put it thru a shredder. but thats how LV got its "status" from. Its not a product that just ridiculously priced in the beginning.
Agreed, but even when the car going to be build on the same production line, the material they use will be different.
Brand almost always means rather if its a "*******" car or a "better" car.
Even if the body is the same, the material inside/outside will be different. that's why its 2 different brand. Its just different.
Scion brand is made with crap material.
The FT-86/FR-S is almost definitely going to be produced for an international market, unlike the scion cars. Since the scion brand does not exist in Japan, it would be a toyota vehicle, even if rebadged for the US. I would expect that most of the production would be the same quality as other toyota cars.
I honestly don't like the scion brand a whole lot, but that's because of the cars they've produced and the marketing directions. If they produced a legitimately good sports car, I'd be more than willing to rethink my stance. Though it's been a good marketing tool, I don't really like the fact that it's so clearly directed at younger drivers. Scion has definitely been more about marketing rather than the actual product. I think this car could be different since it would be almost entirely driven/influenced by the design being used on an international level. I would hope that it's the exact same as in other countries even if it is rebadged. Then again, mazda decided to make a special mazda 6 for the US... so who knows what might happen when it comes to production time.
I really do hope that this car is as good as it could be. I really don't care what brand it has on it. I definitely think that the toyota brand would probably help the perception of it in the eye of the general public, but for anyone aware of the quality and overall performance of the car, the brand name should not be a major influence unless you're self-conscious about the brands you're seen with.
I'd also like to point out that I'm not saying it's unfair to make predictions based on brand names. The brand history is definitely a good indicator of how a product will likely turn out. I'm just trying to make the point that, once a product is released, if it is truly a good product, it should be judged solely on its merits and not the history of the brand. The product is what it is. The brand name or the history of the brand will not suddenly make that different.
04-24-2011, 11:41 PM
#59
I'll start with the LV... I'm sure it is a good product, but I still would argue that the brand name/recognition comes before that. I think a change in logo design would hurt their business more than a dip in quality. I expect that some would be focused on the quality and durability aspects, but most people I've seen buying those types of bags are more focused on the fashion/looks and name recognition. Everyone I've personally known to get bags like that will "retire" them long before they've reached the end of their usable life.
but there are people go after LV for their quality and that's how LV got famous in the first place. and if their bags rip every 5 blocks then no one will buy their bags ever, no matter how good looking/design the bag is.
The FT-86/FR-S is almost definitely going to be produced for an international market, unlike the scion cars. Since the scion brand does not exist in Japan, it would be a toyota vehicle, even if rebadged for the US. I would expect that most of the production would be the same quality as other toyota cars.
I honestly don't like the scion brand a whole lot, but that's because of the cars they've produced and the marketing directions. If they produced a legitimately good sports car, I'd be more than willing to rethink my stance. Though it's been a good marketing tool, I don't really like the fact that it's so clearly directed at younger drivers. Scion has definitely been more about marketing rather than the actual product. I think this car could be different since it would be almost entirely driven/influenced by the design being used on an international level. I would hope that it's the exact same as in other countries even if it is rebadged. Then again, mazda decided to make a special mazda 6 for the US... so who knows what might happen when it comes to production time.
I mean the engine will probably as good as any other Toyota model, but expect the car itself to fall apart significantly faster than other Toyota models.
I really do hope that this car is as good as it could be. I really don't care what brand it has on it. I definitely think that the toyota brand would probably help the perception of it in the eye of the general public, but for anyone aware of the quality and overall performance of the car, the brand name should not be a major influence unless you're self-conscious about the brands you're seen with.
Scion's brand means looks cool but crappy quality.It's been like that and it will stay that way.
I'd also like to point out that I'm not saying it's unfair to make predictions based on brand names. The brand history is definitely a good indicator of how a product will likely turn out. I'm just trying to make the point that, once a product is released, if it is truly a good product, it should be judged solely on its merits and not the history of the brand. The product is what it is. The brand name or the history of the brand will not suddenly make that different.
I went to the Auto Show today and saw the car in person, it does look cool/good/sexy in person. but it will NOT look like that in Scion's(Toyota) dealership everybody knows it. Since its a "Scion" they can't mark the car's price too high. when that happens ... we all know how it ends.
Last edited by nycgps; 04-24-2011 at 11:45 PM.
05-07-2011, 10:49 AM
#61
You can find a picture of almost any car malfunctioning. REALLY?
Anyways. Regardless of the brand they decide to release this car under. It's nice to see manufactures investing in affordable light weight sport cars. Because it's a Scion doesn't mean it will be built badly. Not everyone has M3 money.
Also we're Rx8 owners. Most car guys have no respect for us. Every where I go when I say, I have an Rx8; people always say oh I don't like the bubbly design, its to slow, and Mazda fell off after the Rx7. Until I pull up with it and there jaws drop do they learn lol.
The fact that the car wont look like that when it's production ready is SAD.
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