FloppinNachos

So what exactly is the problem? Is the dwell time shorter/longer and throwing off timing?

mysql

The problem is using coils that aren't meant for the rx8 and require adjustment. If the adjustment isn't quite right, you might have random issues pop up. I've already experienced that first hand. No thanks.

The simple solution is to buy coils that work properly for the vehicle.

FloppinNachos

Well since the OEM RX-8 coils definitely don't work properly for the RX-8, I'm assuming you're talking about LS2 coils?

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

The MazSport coils need a longer dwell time.

I address it as users need it.
Offering multiple sets of calibrations just in case a user has an incompatible bit of aftermarket gear would be insanity.

Just order it on line and I will give you back $15 of your shipping/handling charge if you pick it up from me directly at the dyno meet.

I will probably have one or two units with me in addition to any pre-orders.

The OE coils work perfectly - for a while.
For some people, they work perfectly for a long while.
Its a crap shoot.

MazsportScott

There is no problem, setting the dwell in the ECU for your particular application is a common part of the tuning process. If your tuner doesn't look at the dwell tables and adjust them to suit your needs/power levels then he is doing you an injustice.

With our Ignition Solution the factory dwell settings are perfectly adequate for N/A cars. If Mazda did not think dwell was an important table and that it should be adjusted depending on load,rpm and battery voltage they would not have put it in the ecu or adjusted it based on those variables USING FACTORY COILS! Fact is MAZDA varies it quite abit in the stock map. Now, dwell is charge time, more time more spark energy and less is less energy. Use more than you need will gain you nothing and seriously shorten the life of the coil, if you don't run enough you may blow out the spark. Balance is the key for efficient combustion and long coil life. Want to run 230rwhp 2ms is fine, want to run 350rwhp 3.5ms is fine want to go in the 400rwhp range turn it up abit more.

Hope this clears any confusion regarding Dwell, what it is and how using it will maximize efficiency and provide long service life. Scott

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

"Adequate" is an interesting choice of words. If an aftermarket solution is only providing "adequate" spark energy at and above the torque peak, is it an "adequate" solution?
Should a consumer expect an upgraded part to only supply the same or less spark energy as the OEM coils in that range?

Not really.
Most tuners do not have access to the equipment necessary to compute dwell time for an unknown coil.
Generally, you run with a minimum dwell time and then work your way up if there are misfires.

If your aftermarket supplier does not furnish you with dwell information when you purchase a set of coils, they are doing you an injustice.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

^^^ ouch

MazsportScott

Judging from the response of the customers running them it's pretty safe to say there is more than adequate dwell time at the torque peak, sorry about that Jeff.
In forced induction applications I would suggest increasing the dwell time in the higher RPM's in the factory ECU, mazda starts turning it down. The stock coils as we know are less than great, turn the dwell up at higher RPM and I doubt they will hang in there for very long. Actually when I built the Interceptor-X in 2005 I did try ramping up the dwell time and cooked a few myself.

I would say your right about most tuners setting the dwell that way, it's a simple and effective way to do it.

I do provide that info and recommend 3.5 ms for forced induction applications.

Razz1

So what do you recomend for a heavily modified NA?

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Some, not all.

Ex post facto.

MazsportScott

Depends on how heavily modified we are talking about, for guys running the typical bolt-on's the factory settings work very well.

MazsportScott

At torque peak? Interesting, first I have heard of it.

Most guys running high power levels call the shop, ask question and for recommendations when upgrading but I will make sure its in the instructions.

Psychofox

I would not have purchased the maz ignition if the dwell setting for FI application is needed was addressed in the begining.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

That seems a little backwards.

I would think that you would be more inclined to purchase an upgrade product that is better documented than one where there are "mystery" specs.

I am usually more impressed by products that contain complete specs or have spec sources available.
Certainly, when a device only has one or two variables that need to be addressed for full functionality, I'd expect them to be presented right off the bat.
Especially on a device that was as fully tested in the field as the MazSport ignition solution.

FloppinNachos

Do you have to mess with dwell settings on the LS2 coils for FI?

FloppinNachos

I thought it was backwards too, but I think he was saying he wouldn't have purchased the Mazsport coils if he knew that he would have to change the dwell settings for them to work properly.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

think about who's producing them for us, and then slap yourself for askig such a silly question hehehe

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

No.

Well, in the current state of things, that shouldn't be a reason not to get them. The data necessary to make them work correctly is out there now.

MazsportScott

Psycofox, during the tuning process you or your tuner are making adjustments to various maps to accomplish your goal. We are talking about an adjustment here, thats it. The Ignition Solution has the flexibility to not only provide strong spark with the factory Mazda settings but also has the headroom to provide spark energy for 380rwhp by simply adjusting numbers in a table!

MazsportScott

Depends on the power level, during testing with high power levels yes you do.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

In a table that wasn't available in any of the RX-8 specific EMS systems except the Int-X at the time the MazSport ignition was released.
Not everyone is using the Int-X.
It wasn't even available in the AP until Christian asked me about it.

Since there are several coil choices that don't require an individual dwell adjustment to be utilized with the OE PCM's settings, it just didn't seem economical to include a one-off, supplier-specific adjustment.
Especially when there are so many other features that need development time on the AP.
It was entirely in deference to Scott that the dwell table development was added instead of APV/SSV.

FloppinNachos

GM and MSD

I knew the LS2 coils didn't need adjustment, I just wanted it to be stated in this thread by someone more knowledgeable than myself.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

roger, gotcha!

i i didnt exactly mean who was producing them i guess.... i was more referring to whom was supplying them to us and their reputation for excellent work

tdiddy

You can also make Dwell changes in the HKS EMS which has an RX8 specific harness. I believe most EMS's have the ability to change the Dwell as it is common to adjust it for various changes made during the upgrade/tuning process regardless of application.

devildog1679

I have a question. Let's say I have the AP installed with one of MM's tunes. For some reason my AP is lost, stolen, or broken. Am I screwed since the stock flash is lost? How would I get a stock flash at that point? Just curious