Jasonawojo

iTrader: (2)

Sent, only thing I don't have is the AFR graph, but my AP readings were in line with the safe limits and my requests don't pertain to that aspect.

Usually Arnold results in..

Also, to anyone who has modded after the initial AP install, have you found adding an aftermarket exhaust to effect what map you need?

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Adding an exhaust shouldn't change your calibration at all.
You will just see the resultant increase in powah.

TheWulf

iTrader: (4)

I just noticed this:



Hmm yea. Why the deadline at all anyways? A tune is a tune... does it really matter when it's done? I could see a lot more people being willing to drop the cash if they weren't rushed to use them then forced to pay again.

Edit: Yea I know you probably don't want to have to keep track forever, and you also make more money this way. But honestly it's like those gift cards that charge you fees every year until your money is gone. Kinda wrong. I'm all for paying for tunes. But if that's the case, then let them use what they pay for, or have a single-tune plan.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

a big part of the customer base is NA, and its not too many of them that would/should go rushing out to make 'tune altering' changes to their mods 6 months after they just got everything running right and tuned

Kane

iTrader: (1)

By definition it is not a revenue stream; it is a value added service (the tunes I mean).

You are paying the same price as you would for an AP from Cobb.

So the not so nice translation (not approved by Jeff) is this.

"Making 7090954546 tunes is annoying as hell; it takes a certain amount of time to get a custom tune that works right for you car (a lot less than 6 months) - but after that the job is done.

If you CHOOSE to make more VE changes - then I have to retune your car again; and it will not be free as I did my initial value added service to you when you bought the AP."

Other option is to buy the Street Tuner software whenever it comes out and do it yourself. No offense to Jeff - but that is the sole reason I haven't bought an AP yet.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

wow, that was very concise..

oh and wait till you see the thread i made

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Maybe from your standpoint a tune is a tune.
But you don't have people sending you 1/2 dozen e-mails a day wondering why they can't install their AccessPORT without the key in the ignition!

If I didn't cap it, I would have people wanting new calibrations weekly, even if they didn't need it.
Some folks are just abusive. All you have to do is look at the number of people trying to scam Mazda for warranty work to get an idea.
That said, Kane has it right:

So, that's it in a nutshell.

Or, you could buy one and then get the software later.
I can't wait for the flood of support request e-mails I get from people who buy their AP direct from Cobb (or elsewhere) and then get the tuning software - wanting free, unlocked calibrations and advice on what the values should be for the "closed-loop exit *A* table" at calculated loads between 38 and 52.

Kane

iTrader: (1)

Define - Later...

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

When it becomes available.
I just edited the instruction guide last week (it still needs help - but, then again, so does the software), so I'd say it is forthcoming.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

damn i can almost feel your smug grin through the interwebs... knowing that you know stuff we dont

TheWulf

iTrader: (4)

Don't get me wrong, I think that capping it at 5 tunes is something you have to do - you definitely can't give unlimited tunes. I have no problem with that.

All I'm saying why force people to get their 5 tunes done within 6 months? Some people may be good for 2 tunes within the first month and not need another re-tune until they do some major changes to their 8 which could easily be a year or two down the road.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Because if they change their setup in 7 months or a year or more they should pay to have it retuned.
Why should it be free? What advantage is that to me?
If I buy a set of spark plugs from Mazda, should they give me another set next year at no charge just because I went online and bought a new set of plug wires from someone else?

Like Nicholson said - "You can't handle the truth!"

To be honest, as beautiful as the software is, it is the wild west.
I have found myself staring blankly at it for hours sometimes, trying to navigate my way out.
There are tables with cryptic names.
There are tables with cryptic values.
There are tables that do exactly the opposite of what they say they do.
There are values that are non-linear.
There are tables with only one entry, even though they should be a matrix.
There are tables that are a matrix with the same value in every cell!
There are multiple tables with the same name that work against each other in a non-predictable fashion.
There are tables that are scaled to impossible values (try setting your coil dwell to 35,972 or your injector latency to 128,751!)
There are values that throw unrelated CELs for no apparent reason.

mysql

What you're missing is that the service being provided is a way to get your car up and running properly. For Jeff's service, usually the first one or two maps are all you need before your vehicle is properly functional. This was true for me and I am FI with a 470 hp turbo in my car. If he can get it right for me that quickly, it's a cakewalk for the NA folks. The remainder of the tunes he offers is basically to fine tune your map in case you find issues such as cruise map (cat save) being too rich or too lean, or whatever minor tweaks you suddenly desire (Even lower fan turn on temps, for example).

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

ah, well Cobb has about a year and a half to get it whipped into shape. I'll be back to civilization by then.

i'm hoping that they are having you consult them very heavily

09Factor

Props to Jeff for this. He used to show up to our meets happy and awake. Now he just shows up since the advent of the AP.

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

jeff, sent you an e-mail and data on 6/21... you have it or should i resend it?

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

**** thats what this is for...

V1.0

reply sent

Thanks Jeff

TheWulf

iTrader: (4)

Well it's not technically free since you're stating $299 for 5 tunes -- whether it's 5 tunes within a month or 5 tunes within 5 years... still paid for 5 tunes, no?

But I do get what you're trying to say. I think the concept you're going for is more like "$299 for a custom tune, of which you can come back for tweaks/updates 4 more times (for a total of 5)".

Though, then it comes into semantics whereas you could have a situation where someone is satisfied after 2 tunes, goes FI in 3 months and then you need to do another full custom tune as opposed to a tweak -- still 5 tunes, but obviously much more work.

---------------

On a side note - this is a question for everyone in general as I'm sure MM is busy enough that he doesn't need to spend time answering tuning-noob questions --

At which point do you need a new tune? I mean, there are dozens of mods out of there and I'm sure each one of us does a half dozen per year. But they could be so varied. Ex: CAI, exhaust, flywheel, ignition, FI, etc. Now obviously FI warrants a new tune, but for those of us who stay NA, is there a guide/logic to go by to know whether or not we should get a new tune? Or should it be done more by dyno results?

</tuningnoob>

mysql

I can only say that I changed from b&b 2.5" catless midpipe with hks legamax (also 2.5") to a full 3" ID turboxs midpipe and exhaust and didn't need a retune.

elysium19

iTrader: (1)

I asked if a catback exhaust or a K&N drop-in OEM-style air filter would affect the tune, and was told they would NOT.

It seems that changing from OEM intake to some other intake requires a special tune. As would changing from the OEM cat to either a high-flow cat or a catless midpipe. Changing between aftermarket intakes or midpipes, I'm not sure about... Other things like going FI or changing injectors or anything serious like that obviously will require adjustment.

Easy_E1

iTrader: (2)

Saturday night he showed up at the car show and was playing this in the car. I think the heat has finally gotten to him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76HcLEunsws

ShellDude

iTrader: (12)

I'll be installing the Typhoon cold air intake in the next 6 to 12 months. Am a smidge concerned that I may miss out on some potential tunes because of a timer expiring.

What that said, it's even a little more concerning that it's taken the better part of two months of working with Jeff and Cobb and still not not have a fully funcitonal solution for swapping maps without getting a U0100 code.

Assuming that I'm grandfathered to cover this specific support issue, then I have no problem at all adhereing to the new guidelines. I don't believe my timer should start until I'm working on non beta firmware, for example.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

Any change in intake inside diameter at or in close proximety to the MAF will need tuning. basically anything that changes the way air flow across the MAF as it does in OEM style

changing catbacks or midpipes or headers shouldnt make a difference. losing the OEM cat doesnt HAVE to be tuned for, but you can definately lean out the cat-protect stuff if you lose the cat, just not required.

changing intakes will most definately require tuning. again once you have a usable stable tune, ANYTHING that changes how air flows across the MAF will require tuning

this probably doesnt address everything, but it covers the intake/exhaust stuff

i wouldnt worry about that.... i think its fairly safe to say that any CEL issues Jeff and Cobb will continue to try to work on... but isnt UXXXX a comm error, why would you have a comm error? i remember you posting that a while back now that i think about it....
i LOVE that song!!! i have it on at least 3 CD's

gregs

iTrader: (7)

hey jeff when im ready for a tune again on my greddy turbo kit does your offer still apply from the so cal dyno day....i would prefer just driving out there and having you do a tune in person....ill wont forget to bring the cancer sticks...lol