docgatorx8er

iTrader: (10)

Now the brake pads may be an issue. I assume their stock. Whatever was on the car when I bought it. It's still about knowing how slow/fast to go, not about getting slow. I can't get the FEEL. No time to look at a speedometer. Gotta now when to hold em, and when to GO.

What Smackdown are you talking about?


HEY GUYS. I stopped and looked at the '09 at Bedford Mazda today. SWEEET. I REALLY like the changes to the front end. Smaller fender vent with side turn signal. The rear is quite different, but only if you know what you're looking at. The lines on the car remain the same. Really nice looking!

Of course, our car values just went down again.............

docgatorx8er

iTrader: (10)

I just had a conversation about lowering seats on the RX8 for BS. Some local people had it done. Bottom line. The rules say this is a stock class. You have to drive it the way it came from the factory. There are some very specific things the class allows, which are spelled out. Lowering the seats is not on that list. Neither is adding the spare tire, which is a dealer addon, not factory.

Having said that.....locally, if you're not taking first place, nobody cares. If it makes you happy go for it. But if you get serious and start winning, you're going to be challenged. Then you will have to decide.

I don't think lowering a seat, or having a spare tire is going to make anyone go faster. But thems da rules.

msumlin

Mark, Smackdown is the August 3rd event. As far as pads, u may want to go to a better pad HAWK HPS, HP+'s, Dot 4 fluid and SS lines. Better feel, pedal response.....talk o Eric at the next event

docgatorx8er

iTrader: (10)

Marlin.

I appreciate your feedback on the pads. But everybody on rx8club is so fired up about this part or that part. And I have talked to Eric. The bottom line is this car is well set up as is. I'm driving the car well below it's maximum capacity. Until I'm better skilled than the car is capable of delivering, the money time and effort is best spent on MY SKILLS. Folks new springs, new wires, new pads whatever aren't going to make up for lack of skill.

If it makes you feel good because you like the sound, or it looks cool, fine. But call it what it is. You don't need to improve performance when your not using what you already have.

I don't need new brake pads. I need to know WHEN and HOW to apply the brakes. What speed is the point of maximum return for cornering the hairpin turns we've been given.

Too many people here talk to much car. (I mean that very politely) I know it's fun. But for me, personally (I'm talking to myself here) it's shut up and drive. It's not complicated. Go FAST. I mentioned in an earlier post where Eric hopped in somebody elses car and drove it 2 seconds faster. Dan drove MY car faster than I did. It's not the car.

Rant over.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled forum.

DeViLbOi

iTrader: (1)

I completely understand where you are comin from Mark. I am probably the last person you want to get a suggestion from..but I can't keep my opinion to myself. So ignore me if you want...but I have to put it out there none the less. I know personally if I concentrate on something too much or try too hard things get worse. So my suggestion so to take a step back...go back to driving for the fun and enjoyment of it and stop trying to be fast. Relax...don't over analyze and just let it all happen.

tony_673

No No No! I'm sorry, but I've got to chime in on this. Throwing parts at a problem isn't the answer. There's no reason to switch out the factory pads for something different simply for AutoX use. The factory pads more than suffice.

The fact is is that the RX8 came from the factory with an excellent brake setup. Sure, they may dust a lot, but the braking ability cold and hot far surpasses most factory setups and even some aftermarket setups. There are very mixed opinions on how well the Hawks perform on an 8; some people say there's not much difference between them and stock, others claim they're worse.

I can personally attest to the stock brake system's durability and performance (as can anyone else who's had it on a road track.). There's excellent bite and very minimal fade, even when going from 120mph to a quarter of that in just a few seconds.

Alright, I've got to end this post before I type something I might regret saying later.

docgatorx8er

iTrader: (10)

DB didn't you say something about the M6 group getting together for drinks tomorrow? Where are you guys going? Maybe you can buy me one to help me calm down....................

DeViLbOi

iTrader: (1)

Not a problem...and I promise that it will be a Guinness. Quaker Steak & Lube in Valley View. I'll be there about 730.

tony_673

Sorry, DB, I deleted my post for the reason I mentioned about.

I'm just really getting tired of people passing out advice and information on this forum that is unfounded in truth, research, or experience. It seems to be happening more and more, and quite frankly I'm getting sick and tired of hearing it.

I don't claim to know everything, and that's why I don't chime in on most discussions around here. Lately, though, there's been a few people who have some advice to give about everything, and goddammit, it's annoying the hell out of me.

Once again, I'm gonna stop talking to avoid further trouble.

DeViLbOi

iTrader: (1)

It's cool Tony...I understand where you are coming from too. And while I may not have raced my car before I have competed in many a sporting event. I do understand the fact that one can try too hard. I have seen it happen and I have done it myself. In the end Mark is going to do what he thinks is best and I wish him the best of luck with it.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

If Auto-X is YOUR thing, fine. Turbo/SC, intake, exhaust, etc isn't what you should be focusing on.
If drag racing is YOUR thing, suspension and wheels still play a factor, but then you start looking into FI.
Bottomline... its all about what YOU want to do with the car.
Me personally... I want to go FI just because I want to have the experience with installing and running FI... and yes, go faster (in a straight line).

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

100% agree!
I've done 140mph and was impressed with the bite the stock brakes produced.
Though at first it was too good of a bite and I had to let off the brake because my back-end felt like it jumped up into the air.
But honestly... those days of acting dumb are behind me (hence why I'm starting to talk to you guys about auto-x)

I'm right there with you bud.
Another reason I stress to people to do their own work/installs.
Too many people sit here and read posts and think that they know everything about the 8.

There have been issues that I personally never dealt with, but still chime in.
But I usually reference a shop manual when doing so.
I especially love helping out with electrical issues because I deal with diagrams and schematics at work, and this not only uses my electrical knowledge to help others, but keeps my mind "up-to-speed" while troubleshooting!

tony_673

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one.

Out of curiosity, what shop manual do you reference? Did you buy the hardcopy ones that people sell on Ebay? I personally have an shop manual for the RX8 on my computer that I use.

A budy of mine is heading back to Ohio next week after a year at Universal Techincal Institute in Phoenix. He's turned into a automotive electrical nut too. I don't know how you guys get into that stuff, but it's enough to make my brain smoke. I guess I just don't know enough about it yet. I'm sure I'll be on my road to learning once he gets back.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

I have the shop manuals on my computer as PDFs (been posted a few times on this forum).
I also have SAE Technical information documents about the engine and the rotary module that is a nice thing to watch to learn more about the engine and its components.
Its a flash animation and it really gets in depth.
Basically... any useful documents to help me better understand whats going on under the hood.

I actually had a meeting at Phoenix to apply for their education.
I couldn't go there because they didn't offer what I needed for Rockwell Automation.
I needed more electro-mechanical and component level electronics training because I repair anything that goes wrong with our surface mount equipment which is mainly electro-mechanical and pneumatic stuff.
But many of our engineers got their bachelors and masters at Phoenix and they loved it since it worked well with their weird and unpredictable work hours.
And believe me... my brain still smokes sometimes when troubleshooting electrical issues... especially if one thing fails, but is in series with something else.
Then you have to wonder if something else caused the issue and is just being masked by another device
Sometimes it comes down to just swapping out components until you've narrowed it down.

RK

iTrader: (1)

Nice. I think I got the HPDE Signup stickied! Marlon you might want to update the first post to add a little more information (you had a lot in the poll post and not everyone read that). Might want to update the list of signups as well.

I downloaded the manual Robin Yang had on his site. I use my iPhone with that when I'm actually working on my car (at least since I jacked up the pins on my mirrors because the DIY I was using wasn't clear enough on the pin design).

http://69.108.208.137/ryang/modify/r...8_manuals.html

Actually looking for something that can read PDFs on a bigger screen that isn't a touch screen. Love the iPhone but it's generally not good to try to use a touch screen when your hands are greasy or wearing work gloves. Really helpful to have the manual next to you when you're working. Most DIYs seem to assume the the DIYer has done it multiple times and leaves out bits or pieces (like torque values).

tony_673

Actually I was refering to the Universal Technical Institute campus in Phoenix, AZ, not the University of Phoenix. UTI is an automotive specialty school with campuses across the US. They usually have their infomercial playing on Speed Channel on Sunday mornings and late at night.

University of Phoenix seems neat too, I just wonder how prospective employers feel about getting an education online instead of being in a classroom.

docgatorx8er

iTrader: (10)

Can I get some of those from you jon?

msumlin

Mark it does come down to seat time first and formost and I have driven our 6's and MSP on a number of tracks, Nelson, Road Atlanta, Road America, Watkins Glen and Mid-Ohio. We all have impoved, we are in our 2nd year auto-xing, which we use to just to have fun, as we're more serious about tracking our cars on road course.

Eric has been doing this for several years, so he will always literally kick our butts, no matter what he drives. The OEM brakes on any and all Mazda are far above adequate for what we do. I suggest that you have Eric or one of the other seasoned guys ride with you. Beth Smith had Eric and others ride with her and they not only offered insight on lines, braking, etc., but set up as well.

Not trying to start a war per se, but having the seasoned guys work with you, will help you a great deal. Also, have someone video tape your runs, so you can see visually where you may have lost time in a section. The one rule that learned from someone, is sometimes you have to go slow, to be fast.

Even the best have coaches and I am sure that they can help you, as they have helped others.

docgatorx8er

iTrader: (10)

Guys give it a rest. I appreciate your help. Just drop it. People are now answering who haven't read what I said in the first place.

Seat time is BULLSHIT. If you do the same thing over and over, seat time isn't going to change a thing. And I've discussed that with Eric. He agrees!

I HAVE asked seasoned guys to help me. How stupid do you think I am?

This has all grown out of control. Let's all go get a beer and forget it.

Just let it go, OK.

tiresmoker

iTrader: (1)

Mark, buddy, pal...

Sounds like you need a beer!! Stop on out to Quaker in Valley View tonight and I'll buy you one.

DeViLbOi

iTrader: (1)

That's two free beers for Mark. Do we have any other offers?

RK

iTrader: (1)

You guys know he's drinking Guinness, right? There's no alcohol in those things. I'll get him a shot or something.

DeViLbOi

iTrader: (1)

I don't really want to pick a fight with these guys, or you Mark, I just really want to understand fully so please bear with my questions.

1) If I change out my drivers seat for a sparco racing seat do I change classes?
2) If I change out my seat belt and go to a 5-point harness do I change classes?
3) If I put different pedals on do I change classes?
4) If I change out my shift **** do I change classes?
5) If I put on clear corners do I change classes?

RK

iTrader: (1)

You have looked at the rules, right?

http://scca.com/documents/Solo%20Rul...lo_Rules_2.pdf

Most of your questions are pretty clear cut. 1 is definitely out. No replacement driver seats. Section 13.2a. It's not as clear about 'lowering' the seats tho from your description of it the shop would remove something in order to lower your seat? I imagine that's why it would be illegal since removing something that has weight could be considered an advantage over stock. If they can do it without removing anything maybe it would fly but I think you thought they have to remove or shave something.

I'm not sure why'd you'd want to do 2? 5-point harnesses aren't a good idea unless you structurally reinforce your car to begin with. I think section 3.3.1 says its a no-go anyway unless you have a convertable.


Question 3 seems like it would also be a no-go. There's nothing specific I can find in the stock class related to changes to the pedals so that would mean you can't. There is a mention of it in the STS rule noting 'appearance' mods to the pedals were acceptable. Wonder how they define appearance mods to pedals? That would seem to exclude mods like an extension to help heel/toe...

4) Sounds like you would change classes. I kinda smiled when I saw you ask that but looking through the rules I'm not sure:

Be interesting to see if shift ***** are considered 'comfort and convenience mods which have no effect on performance'. I think mine's affected my performance but that's probaby because I like it so much (like my +5 hp "green" sticker).

Does it really matter for you though? Aren't your wheels already off spec? IIRC they have to be 18x8 with an offset between... crap... 42 and 48? I probably have the offset wrong but it's all over the race forum.

DeViLbOi

iTrader: (1)

I have briefly looked over the rules for things. But I was tryig to think of things that weren't covered in what I remember reading. Thanks for the link though...I'll have to take a look at them.

My understanding from Brian and Megan is that nothing was removed from the seat mounting that they are aware of. In looking at Brian's seat I found nothing that looked like it was cut off or where a paint was missing. In looking under my seat I am thinking that a bolt was relocated making the seat weight the same. Also I wonder how that doesn't fall under the "comfort and convenience modifications" that you mentioned.

3) See...and this is where I am thinking. If something like...ermmm...grip tape were applied to the pedal I would think it would be a help to performance over the slippery aluminum. That to me would make me think it would be a no go for BS...but it just seems like a retarded rule to have.

4) I am really actually interested in this one. Different shifters have different weights and have different feels for shifting. Personally I hated the feel of the stock shift **** and have really fallen in love with what I have. I had talked to Brian at one of the Northfield events and he took it out and hated it. However, he did believe that my shift **** was lighter than stock. This would kick me out of BS based on that...but again...it is something small and silly when you compare it to the possible gains of other upgrades that put you in STU.

5) This really was just thrown out there as something I want the SCCA/NORA folk to think about over on that forum. It is an appearance upgrade that is not OEM and does replace an OEM part. According to how things seem to be worded from that group, read bunch of characters, it should throw me out of BS.

It is things like these points that make me really not understand the BS rules. I am sure it is just stuff that wasn't considered when they wrote the rules out...but if they can fight over the fact that my seat would go lower than OEM spec I don't know what to expect on the others. Honestly even if I were good enough to compete on some national level at some point I wouldn't. To me it is about pushing my car and being more familiar with my car and less about the competition. If they say I have to run STU for this crap so what...it just seems stupid.

BTW...the fact that they specifically say that a car with a roof can't have a 5 point harness and remain in a class is really stupid. Maybe I like the comfort, HAHAHAHAHA, of a 5 point harness. It is a safety device and shouldn't determine anything...now a roll cage that would change the dynamcs of a frame would be different. I wonder what something like this would do to my classification.

Updated again...Oh...and my wheels should be spec. The rims are the same size as my factory and I would think the offset would be the same. I could always check though. *shrug*

Updated again and again....Yup...checked....18x8 w/ 50mm offset for both according to the interwebz