Im_DANomite

iTrader: (1)

i still don't see how that happened. i ran OE brakes the first 2 times i went and never had a problem. little bit of fade, but nothing major...

you must've been standing on your brakes or somethng...that's nuts!!!

Rotr8

iTrader: (2)

they were Hawk HP+'s and yes the last session I was standing on the brakes, literally,,,

Striker-7

iTrader: (3)

Don't understand it either. I should have smoked the pads on my first incompetent days @ VIR, but I'm still on the same set of Hawk HPS Ceramics today on the street after three track weekends. Granted, they are going to be replaced with a new set when / if I run Watkins Glen in August, since they will not endure another hard beating.

My OEM pads never saw the track, basically due to being less than 50% thickness when I was prepping for VIR and bedding in a new set is frowned on at the track. If the OEMs are anything like the compound on my minivan, they'd have lit up like a box of crackers thrown in a broiler. Screwed up replacing the booster and master cylinder on the Grand Caravan, managed to overheat those pads badly, and when I pulled them out of the calipers the pad material shattered and crumbled away.

bhop

Hey guys. Im_DANomite Sorry to stop in with a random question but I read on one of the older threads that you do your own work and work at tate BMW but IDK where that is but anyways, would you know how to install coilovers? I assume so but asking to make sure. But if you do I wanted to know how much you would charge to put some tein basic coilovers on my rx8. I hear they are fairly easy to deal with but then again they are cheap compared to other's. Also wanted to know about your track sessions Rotr8, How is that going so far? I was also looking at some brake pads but could not decide but Hawks are great I suppose.

bhop

When tracking the car are any of you stopping or pit stopping and changing pads or are you not at the track long enough to change them. I have seen people change them at one track a long time ago on their rx8 but I guess they had enough money to stay that long.

Im_DANomite

iTrader: (1)

TATE BMW is no longer in business. it has since been taken over by Group 1 Automotive and is just called BMW of Annapolis. FORTUNATELY, i DO NOT work there anymore. i'm down in Silver Spring working at Tischer BMW.

i can't do any side work at the dealer, so we'd have to find a day to use my buddy's shop. installing the coilovers is fairly easy, it's adjusting the height that takes a little time. i'd say about an hour per corner @ $60/hr. $240 sound good to you??? that's if everything goes smoothly. if something goes wrong and takes extra time/work, i'd have to charge accordingly...

Im_DANomite

iTrader: (1)

it seriously depends on how hard you're braking. i've used 1 set of pads for two 2 day track events. total of 4 days and my pads were good enough to drive around on afterwards.

bhop

Cool. That works for me since I live in Silver Spring. $60/hr( around $240) but if more, no problem still sounds good as well. I just need to hurry up and order them. IDK know when exactly because of you finding time for your bud's shop and me trying to order them as well as still trying to find wheels.

bhop

One of the main issues I have so far is trying to find wheels and tires but also making sure they fit. Then the car will be lowered anyway so I gotta find a good size. I'm thinking 235/245W with 17/9.5 or 18/9.5 with 30 offset but I'll wait for the coil's first.

Im_DANomite

iTrader: (1)

those would fit perfectly. 255/35R18

the best time to do it would be a saturday morning. that way we can knock it out early and still be able to enjoy the rest of the day. cause i don't like spending my days off, stuck inside a shop and i know you gotta drive your new modified 8

just let me know when you're ready and we can meet up early in the AM to get it all straight.

bhop

I def feel you on that one, I can't stand doing something on a day off that has to deal with work. Yeah, that will work I will try to order next week and then hopefully I can get them in maybe before next SAT or the SAT after next. Some guy told me the 255's would not fit but I told him he had no clue on the different sizes people are running on their 8' but I WILL def try to go at least 255/35R 18. So I'll let you know when I get them in and we can go from there. I'm out.

Rotr8

iTrader: (2)

The rears are fine, and saying that the only thing I can think of is thats the difference between the bit of the 4 piston caliper and the oe caliper...

And even talking to RB afterwards they do not recomend any Hawk pad for a track event, they said theyve had alot of simular situations and complaints...

wankelbolt

iTrader: (21)

Something is wrong with your setup, Rotr8. I've been running Hawk HP+ on the OE brakes since I got my 8. Only on my second set after many, many track days. So far on this set I've run probably two days at Summit main, two on the Shen, and two on VIR Grand East. You can see in my videos that I'm flogging it pretty hard. No fade, no failures, and probably just under 1/3 pad left on the current set. (Did just order another set.)

Wha?... They sell Hawk pads! They only sell Hawk pads. And they are also crazy (or maybe you misunderstood them?). Hawk is the only pad to use for economical and reliable stopping power! I've used HPS, HP+, Blacks, and Blues on various cars over the years. I'm very impressed with the HP+. I bought a set of Blues for the 8 "just in case" and haven't needed them yet.

I've been using the Blues forever on my Spec RX-7 race car. Tried a set of Carbotechs once that were set up and bedded by a better racer than I, and they were horrible. Swapped to Blues and all the brake problems disappeared.

elysium19

iTrader: (1)

OK so I've been following up with some of the people from last weekend, and reading this thread blows me away.

OEM brakes/pads are perfectly fine for tracking. Hawk street pads are definitely fine. OE pads might be slightly vulnerable to fading but that's it. I said fading, not failure. I ran the full course at summit point (very long straight, threshold braking from 135mph-->50mph) all day on OEM pads with no problems whatsoever.

1) Were your pads brand new?
2) My guess is that you were standing on the brakes a lot and braking too hard and allowed the ABS to kick in, which causes significantly asymmetrical wear and a lot more strain on the braking system.
3) Of course your rear brakes are fine. Fronts always wear 2-3 times faster than rears. Maybe if you knew more about weight transfer....

I've noticed a trend which I guess is I guess the result of plunking so much money into your car: you love to blame the hardware for what are most likely failures in driving technique or car preparation.

While I'm at it, jesus christ man- most people on their first track day are humbled by the experience, you were just excited about bragging about "blowing by porsche's". Right...thirty year old porsche's. With your 1:27 you forgot to mention the honda civic in the same car class that was TEN seconds faster than you. Not to mention 115 horsepower miatas. And an N/A rx8. And a basically stock volvo station wagon from 1991 driven by a hairy fat man. (no, seriously, it's a 1991 volvo 240 and the driver is huuuuge)

http://www.emraracing.org/RESULTS/re...rame_setup.htm
Click the Time Trial results from 7/12/09

The other 3 guys that came out were totally fine and I'm glad everyone had fun, which is the main point of the day. But you, where's the humility? I don't hear anyone on their first day saying "oh its cause my supercharger belt was slipping" Most people are saying "wow I got my *** handed to me I clearly have a lot of learning to do about driving"
Forget the coilovers, supercharger, frame bracing, etc. You sir, are the weakest link, goodbye.

af7mn

Good Morning Maryland People. That is all.

gh8st

iTrader: (10)

wow burn............ time slips don't lie

NoOdLe BoY

iTrader: (1)

lol. havent read this thread but ill read it all at work. i mean the current problem at hand. actually i gotta get brake pads. lol

Rotr8

iTrader: (2)

Wow I dont even know what to say to that,, if you were in the pits the same time I was (with Kevin and Garrett) you would have known that I was humbled, we all were, and we were all giggling like school girls having fun,,, Yes I have alot to learn thats obvious, but the more you modify the car the more **** that is likely to fail... And the comments about knocking me for supposedly blaming my SC belt for slippage show shear ignorance, its a well documented occurrance in the owners thread, I wasnt making excuses I was just stating what was happening I am going through my data logs now trying to track down the problem... I f youd like me to post them in here I will but only if you can understand them and help trace the bugs in the tune...

And to you and Wankelbolt here is Mikes number 714-871-6392 (also his screenname here is sdoow) from Racing Brake you can call him yourself and talk to him just like I did, and yes he warns against using any Hawk pads on thier BBK setup regardless of selling them, Wankel, Hawk is not the only pad they sell, 5 secs looking at thier website will tell you that,,,

Its great to be humble and all and say yeah I need improvement, thats obvious but that doesnt help fix my car, so unless youd like to try and figure that out like I am now I suggest refraining from you pretencious comment,, I have nothing against you but as of yet you have given me no solid advise or help, the only help I can give myself is to get back on the track with a healthy car and keep at it,,,

blackenedwings

If I ever get my car back you can see what lots of money and no driving ability looks like ely. It's pretty, purple and driven by a tattooed guy.

Rotr8

iTrader: (2)

hahah glad someone has a sense of humor here,,,

Get it back yet Aaron???

Rotr8

iTrader: (2)

you were right Dan I was running extremely lean,,, I was hitting anywhere from a 12.6 to 13.1 at WOT I need to be much closer to 11.5, well one thing chased down now we know why the tips were white hot,,,

Rotr8

iTrader: (2)

Another this one not much better, the AFR is all over the place,,,

wankelbolt

iTrader: (21)

Ah, sorry, my mistake. I thought you were talking about Racing Beat.

But still odd they would recommend not using Hawk pads with their brakes. Unless the rotors are made from something other than steel, or there are mechanical fitment problems with the Hawks, I don't understand how they can have problems with any particular brake setup. There are a couple of positive reviews on RB's forums reviewing Hawk pads with RB brakes. Found a couple of posts from RB recommending Hawk pads.

And still shaky that an "improved" brake setup would go through pads faster than the stock setup. If anything, the pads should last longer with an improved setup. Even allowing for your additional horsepower.

Rotr8

iTrader: (2)

yeah Im jsut as stumped as you are Wankel, Im not trying to be a know it all, but the proof is in the pudding, they(or I) totally shot themselves,,, my instructor saw nothing wrong with my driving style, he was the quickest car of the day, said the car was suppurbly balanced and setup, Im just trying to figure out what went wrong,,, Obviously I have alot to learn, and it was a hard lesson learned I have no idea why the hell Andrew is goin off on me , but hey everyones got thier opinions right,,,

Rotr8

iTrader: (2)

Normal wear, but still need to replace(passengers side)





Not good,,, still passengers side, this was the inside pad,,,



Drivers side, speaks for itself,,,





When I pushed back the pistons they were very difficult and one was even slightly cocked, they were over extended and the fluid that all of us saw was also bleeding from the back of the piston , you can see it here as slight bubbles on the paint,,,,







this was the bleeder thread that was leaking, Andrew temporarily mended it by tightening it back up, but by then I imagine that the damage was done since there was now air in the system,,,