Pictures and/or video will come soon from those in attendance, but here's some first impressions:

Just back from 2 days and four+ hours total tack time learning Watkins Glen Race track with other RX-8s and dozens of other cars from race-prepared to stock, from BMWs to Cadillacs to Hondas to WRXs and little blown $h!t boxes that go like stink!

As a newbie, this was a once in a lifetime thrill without compare - and what a way to begin an addiction :D :D ! To be running flat out on a famous track such as this was such a thrill - I'm still on a speed induced rush!!!

Now I can personally lay some myths to rest once and for all - from my own experiences... if you have ever wondered if the 8 was track worthy box stock - yes it is absolutely! It's not the fastest, but far from the slowest. It's not the best handling, but able to wind its way past some pretty good machinery in the twisties, and even on the straights. Yes it could use more power, but it makes you feel clearly in control, with no apologies needed for its manners - thank you very much.

The NASA instructors were top notch, the organization excellent. The whole event an A++ thrill ride!! THANK YOU JEFF ESP!!!! and THANK YOU SpeedRacer for the invite and idea in the 1st place!!!

For all you who might hesitate to try this in the future - JUST DO IT! I was worried, yes, even a little scared to take my beloved 8 out on the big boys NASCAR track. I even doubted my own ability.

But not any more - never again - I trust this car - it is pretty damn near unflapable! The track was dry, the track was wet, the track was hot , then cold, and my trusty 8 never failed me - in fact it made me a feel like a star!!

I can't wait to do it again, and with some suspension work, some race tires, some engine mods, well all I can say is now I KNOW I HAVE a car that is WORTHY!

PS: That's me #88!

 

Now I’ve had a couple hours sleep, I can’t stop thinking through the dozens of times I circled Watkin Glen track. How many times that was exactly I haven’t a clue (got to check the gas slips)! I go over it again and again in my mind’s eye (what fun!). So then I went back over some previous threads of others experiences doing track days to see how mine compared and I see a lot of similarities. So I think I can feel confident my observations and opinions are valid for the car and not just ‘my car’ in particular.

So in no particular order here is what stays foremost in my memory. Sorry for the length, but if I don't get it out it just runs around in my head! I hope it is interesting to those in attendance and those contemplating future track days and remember, this was my 1st time on a track…

1) The brakes in the car are just plain awesome. They stop ‘right now’, over and over again. My instructor kept saying, “OK brake, brake!, brake!!”... and I’m thinking what’s the hurry? I have plenty of room! There was no fade evident, and actually except for some high speed haul-downs, I didn’t actually really use the brakes all that much, I mean, once I realized just how good they took the speed off. Also I also learned not to be worried the car would mess up in the turns, so I wasn’t constantly standing on them to scrub off too much speed.

2) The car is very easy to point where you want it to go. Except in really-really tight turns where it could wash out if you entered too fast. After I realized that, I think I (turned in and) followed the apexes pretty well. It was to the point the 2nd day, that I would have a conversation (during apexing!) with my instructor saying like, “What are those cars doing over there (way off the apex)? Why don’t they turn in?” He’d say, “I don’t know, they aren’t supposed to be over there, clearly!”

3) The track was huge. We did both the 2.45 and the 3.4 mile loops. You could run them in 4th gear (only!) if you wanted. Third could help in the tight spots though. But too much 3rd gear meant repeated up shifting, as after 8500 rpm, there’s really no more power there and no reason to not shift up and get the speed up. Staying in 3rd just kept speed down too often.

4) 4th gear has little acceleration after 95mph+. Frustrating , and esp. when trying to overtake and pass. More power please! Still, even for me, it was good for another 20 or so mph on this track.

5) The Bridgestone tires held up pretty well, no chunking, no noticeable rollover as there isn’t much to roll-over anyway. I ran 38psi cold 41.5 psi hot, which shows they really didn’t even work up much of a sweat. But I’m sure better tires would make a big improvement still. I chalked the tires, and it’s pretty much all there still. OK the ‘edge’ on the fronts is now gone, which I noticed that on the way home as changed on-center/off-center feel of the car. It turns in much more smoothly without that on-center inertia (that’s why I took a careful look at the tires). Sort of like worn in sneakers I guess :D !

6) The rear brakes actually appear to have done something. In street driving, I regularly clean only the fronts of brake dust, the rears usually have nothing on them. These two days they finally got some dust on them.

7) I left the DSC on (self preservation instinct!) and I only noticed it working on a couple tight off-camber sharp turn-ins, where it would tap on and lock the front outside wheel for a second repeatedly. Otherwise, I could hang the *** out like no tomorrow, full power to the rears, hang on and enjoy the ride! What a rush even if in some turns I felt like I was heeled over to full suspension stops. It just stayed out of the way (I think anyway).

8) I used to ski Sugarloaf Mountain all the time, and this car in the Glen’s so called ‘bus-stop’ [3 or 4 tight turns in the course of about 200 ft], gave me that feeling of shushing down the ski trial all over again. It sashays from side to side soooo wonderfully, it feels so natural and smooth. What a rush!!! :D

9) I now realize that unless I would try to recreate an episode of “Cops- High Speed Chases”, nothing I would ever get into on the street would use a fraction of the potential of this car’s handling capabilities. But in an unexpected emergency maneuver, I now know I can depend on this car’s capability to help me, not hurt me.

10) SpeedRacer’s suspension/engine/intake/exhaust/cat mods and skill level let his 8 leave me in the dust. Bottom line, there’s much more to this car after stock setup is left behind, believe it or not. And likely more to come as development matures. Something to look forward to, something to aspire to .

11) What’s with these NASA guys? - 3 Thumbs Up! I means the instructors are excellent, the staff and classroom training is very helpful. And, really, where else for little money (or ANY money) are you going to find people with great track knowledge, and racing knowledge in general, to CALMLY set next to people who’ve NEVER been to the track before, in a stock car, and gently advise them – IN REAL TIME – how best not to get into trouble and do damage to themselves –the instructors I mean - and the students and their cars!! I mean really – these guys have to be totally nuts, or super dedicated and addicted to the sport! Three cheers guys, you are the best! I’m proud to be part of the club.

12) Counting 3 nights lodging, food, 2 full days track 6am-5pm, in-car and classroom instructors, oh yes and the gas - all for something like $1K total I think I spent, this has to be the steal of the century any way you cut it.

13) FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN, I was screaming FUN at the top of my lungs as I went solo :D around the track!

 

Thanks for all the info! I will be at the Glen next weekend for my 2nd track weekend of my life. This track sounds alot more fun than Pocono was.

 

Wow.. I am now starting to regret not taking this opportunity. However, you mentioned that the whole trip costs ~$1K? I thought the price was around $120+ per day? Factor in room and gas, it shouldn't cost more than $600, right?

 

I was just adding up my receipts and it is scary that it added up to $1,000.

• $325 - 2 track days
• $35 - Annual membership
• $285 - 3 nights in a "deluxe" room
• $160 - 8 tanks of gas
• $100 - meals

You could easily save about $275 by bringing your own meals, sharing a basic room, and staying only two nights.

 

SpeedRacer,

Sounds like you guys really have a blast at the Glen ;-) Btw, just want to see how's your impression on your new suspension setup. Does it help stablizing the rear-end and get rid of most of the fish-tailing under hard braking??

Btw, for those who want to relish the thrill of driving at the Glen again or for those kicking yourself for not being there the last time. Here is your another chance. This time the event is hosted by the PCA and the date is 10/18-19. The details is in http://www.schattenbaum.org

Hope to see some other 8's out there this time other than myself ;-)

Pete

p.s. Looks like we're going to have more track junkies hanging out in this forum from now on :D

 

RotaryZZ,

Unlike a lot of people I don't have my car setup to ride like a brick. Instead I chose to increase the spring rates and damping so that I wouldn't contact the bump stops but left it compliant enough to soak up the irregularities of the track.

The car felt great and all of the prep work paid off. When blasting through corners I noticed that the body roll was significantly less than when the car was stock. In the past the body roll was bad enough to hit the bump stops and that is completely gone. Weight transfer is much more controlled and the stability is noticeably better even in the hard braking zones.

Speaking of brakes, I had zero brake fade with the revised setup (Motul 600 brake fluid, stainless lines, and Carbotech XP8-9 pads). Once the pads are hot they dig in like there is no tomorrow. Highly recommended!

It is tempting but I think I have to pass on the PCA event. I don't think my checking account could take another track day this soon. We'll have to meet up for a track event in the Spring.

P.S. NASA will give us a 10% discount if we can get 10 people to sign up for an event.

 

WOW! What a blast! I took my Nordic Green 8, (someone had to represent a color besides red at the track :p ).

As has already been said, the car handled exceptionally well. It was very predictable and really felt great everywhere.

A little more power would have been nice for the straights but on the whole, for a completely stock car, I was very impressed.

The NASA guys were great, and my instructor was very good. It’s got to take a lot of guts to get into a car with a complete stranger and sit there as he wings the thing around a track at over 100 miles an hour.

As for the price, really a bargain I thought. I figure I spent around 800 (plus the one time cost of a helmet.) The instruction alone is well worth everything I paid for my time on the track.

This being my first time running my car on a track, I started out a bit slow and worked my way up, by the end of the second day, my speeds were very impressive. The car is not the fastest thing on the track, but it holds its own very well. And as SpeedRacer demonstrated, with a little bit of suspension work and experience, the car will do a lot more.

I went to the track with the attiude that I didn’t know what I was doing, and was very open to any suggestions I got. I know that I could have pushed the car a lot harder then I did, and as my speeds increased and my skill improved the second day, it was clear there was a lot more the car would do, even in it’s stock form, then I was ready to try. Next time I think my confidence will be a bit higher, and after a few warm up laps, and reminders from an instructor, I should be able to begin really pushing the car a bit more.

I can’t wait to go back! This is clearly going to become a serious habit. And for anyone who is a bit shy about there skills, not to worry, the instructors are very good at working with you, and making sure you feel comfortable. There were a lot of us first timer's and no one seemed to have an ego or the need to prove anything. I just went out, started out where I felt comfortable, and slowly got faster and better, till I realized, heck, the car isn't even getting worked yet! I was a bit nervous at first about looking like I had no clue what I was doing, but there was no pressure from anyone, and I think a lot of other people were feeling the same way I was.

If anyone has ever wondered what there car can do, and would like to have a little fun zipping through some fantastic corners, I would highly recommend this!

--Tigger!

 

Man, I wish I had gone. $1k is a little stiff, but would have been worth it. I would defintiely be up for a Spring track day. I should have new tims, tires, and shocks by that point (maybe the RB suspension kit too).

I notice Spin9k and Tigger were asking for more from the Wankel, but Speed Racer didn't say the same.. Speed Racer, did the CZ help out a lot on the straights?

 

I don't know that we need more, it would just make the back straights a bit faster... my car was also hurting as two of my ignition coil packs were dead when I went... so I was already lacking power.

The car defiantly has enough power to make the track a blast. Like all things, there is always more of something that would be nice... but really, my driving skills are no where near what are neccessary to get the most out of the car as it is stock... so more power would be nice, but i figure I'll first improve my breaks and supension, while I try and get my skills up to what the car can do as it is now...

After I figure out how to push the car the way it is... then I'll worry about getting more out of the engine!

 

>it would just make the back straights a bit faster...
You should able to reach to about 120mph just before squeezing on the brake hard for the entrance to the bus stop.

>my car was also hurting as two of my ignition coil packs were dead
How can you tell and what's the symptom feel like?

>but i figure I'll first improve my breaks and supension
I've switched to Mazdaspeed pads only instead of any dedicated track pads and they perform great!

 

SpeedRacer,

>Weight transfer is much more controlled and the stability is
>noticeably better even in the hard braking zones.

So the new suspension setup you have did lessen the squirrling and instability at the back end under heavy braking or does it get rid of the problem altogether?

Btw, have you done any alignment after you put in the new suspension. Speaking of new suspension pieces, did you replace the bushings as well or kept the OEM rubber?

TIA
Pete

 

Interesting, I reached an indicated 118 (likely overoptimistic speedo) on my best run before throwing out the anchor at the bus stop, but I feel that if I'd dare just nail it out of turn 1 and not let up through turn 2 a little (which i always did) I would have easily been able to get significantly more speed up. For some reason I just never let myself do that (something to concentrate on doing next time).

The squirliness was evident at the bus stop when braking only when I didn't let up on the brakes going striaght, i.e., if I did a little trailing brake it felt weird, but nothing I couldn't recover from, although I'd rather not have to deal with that dancing rear end just there obviously. Boy I love those brakes, they just haul down the car NOW! :D

If there is a quick fix for that behavior it would be nice.

 

RotaryZZ, you going to join us next time? Sounds like you'd have had a blast out there with us!

A few thoughts on your question...

Speed down the back straight... I know my speedo read at least 119, though I must admit that I tended to break a little early when I was going that fast, and I didn't always check my speed as I was approaching the bus-stop. With a bit more practice on turn 1 (my worst corner... just seemed to keep getting it wrong) I could probably carry a lot more speed out of the S’s and gain at least 5-10 miles an hour…

I think SpeedRacer was up around 130 at least on the back stretch.

I’m defiantly going to consider track pads, and steel lines, as well as high temp break fluid... but having said that, the brakes are incredible stock... though I imagine the new break pads coming from Mazda are not going to be as aggressive.

I didn’t notice the back end being that squirrelly, especially compared to a lot of other cars I’ve driven... and as Spin9k said, what was there was very controllable, even under heavy breaking from high speed. I suspect if I had a new suspension, and the bit of squirrellyness I was feeling was gone, I probably would have run the back straight farther into the breaking zone before I went on the breaks.

Only other time I felt the back end seem squirrelly was when I did something stupid like hit the brakes while beginning to turn in to a corner… but back on the gas hard and the car regained its composer beautifully!

As for checking the coil’s there are a number of posts on how to check this, and I must thanks SpeedRacer for helping me check and confirm that mine were going. Main ways of telling are running issues and lack of power issues (especially if a leading coil goes, as was my case on one rotor... we swapped the bad coil to the trailing and that helped a lot.), also you can visually inspect the coils, the often blister on the top (search the forum for pics ‘ignition coils’) or in the case of my coils, there is a very clear oval about .5 to .75 inches in diameter that is noticeable on the underside… it is very white and looks like it has seriously overheated. All four of my packs had some form of that oval on the back, though two were still performing ok, according to the diagnostic check Mazda recommends. And that leads to the last check you can do... again posted elsewhere and simply cut and pasted here... this procedure should take you only about .5-1 hour to do and requires very few tools besides a few wrenches, sockets and a multi- meter.






IGNITION COIL REMOVAL/INSTALLATION
Remove the engine cover. (See ENGINE COVER REMOVAL/INSTALLATION .)

Remove the battery cover.

Remove the negative battery cable.

Remove the air cleaner duct.

Unbolt the two clamps for the intake accordian tube. Pull the airbox up and and then out. You should be able to keep everything attatched and still move the aribox enough to allow clearance. Move the accordian tube off to the side, away from the coilpacks which were under it. Remove that one wire clipped in above the #1 coilpack.

Remove coil packs

Unplug the coilpack. Unbolt the coilpack with a 10mm socket. remove the coilpack.

IGNITION COIL INSPECTION
Ignition Coil With Built-in Power Switch Inspection
Disconnect the ignition coil connector.

Measure the resistance between each terminal on the ignition coil connector.


If the measurement corresponds to the table, replace the ignition coil.

- +

A B ------infinity or continuity is abnormal
C B -------infinity or continuity is abnormal
C A ------(0) to several kilohm (continuity) is abnormal


The test is performed looking at the coil with the terminal end pointing UP

The terminals are C-B-A

 

RotaryZZ,

The stability problems are gone with the new suspension setup. The only issues I had with stability involved trail braking or track conditions (rain or sealant on pavement). I'm still using the OEM bushings and my next performance mod will be R-compound tires. As the stock tires were the real limiting factor this time at the track.


RPIRX-8,

You know me, I'd love to have more power and I've been slowly working on fixing that. Even with the deficit in power I didn't have any problems catching and occassionally passing the 350Z, STi, and EVO that were in HPDE2. All of those cars were faster in the straights but I was able to close the gaps in the corners especially in the Bus Stop. The car is so easy to control at the limit that it makes you feel like a better driver and in turn gives you more confidence to push it harder. I know that the 350Z driver was complaining that his car was hard to control and he was a bit scared of taking it any where near the limit.

You'll get a kick out of this, in the last session I met up with a plain jane Civic hatchback and was more than a little surprised when he pulled away from me! It turns out that he had an Integra Type-R engine, coil-overs, track pads, etc... I have to give the guy kudos because he also knew how to drive the car well.


My day ended on a sad note. When I was waiting to turn into my drive way I got hit from behind. The nimrod just wasn't paying attention. So it looks like I will back in a rental for another month or two.

 

Holy Crap SpeedRacer, your 8 must either be cursed or it just attracts idiots. That sucks so bad... esp. after such a otherwise nice trip... turning into your driveway!!!

Yikes! My condolences. Is it only cosmetic or was it hard enough to bend the body?

 

The damage looks to be fairly light just like the last time ($13k). He hit me hard enough to ruin the bumper, trunk, quarter panel, tail light, and exhaust. The suspension and drive train appear to be undamaged. The damage is that light because when I noticed that he wasn't stopping I tried to gun it to get out of his way. Maybe I should have just stood on the brakes and let him total the car.

I think that my car must be jinxed. I've never had this many problems before (2 accidents, 4 cracked windshields, clutch, front brakes, coils & plugs). All of that in just over a year and 26k miles. If I thought that I could sell the car without loosing a lot of money I would do it tomorrow.

 

Wow, does that suck! I was always a bit nervos turning into your driveway... now I know why. No reason for an accident like that though... 20 mile an hour zone, straight, lots of breakdown lane space and clear visability... not to mention, it is hard to miss your car, bright red and all. I hope you got the police involved and everyone told the same story... What must your insurance company be thinking!

Is the exhaust destoryed or just a kinked pipe somewhere? You going to replace it with another Borla?

 

Here's another idea - gut the inside (to go along with the outside), add a racing seat, fire extingisher and roll bars - get someone's bumper on the board cheap that has mod'ed theirs to pretty up the outside, straighten out the exhaust, and go racing for real.

Bet you could get the weight down by like 500 lbs to maybe 2600 lbs, and with the rest of your performance mods, you have one haul-*** machine there!! :D

Then as a bonus sell all the parts removed piecemeal to recoup. ... and buy that POS Prius you were driving earlier...

 

Roy:

Sorry to hear about your accident. Man does that suck! We'll keep you in spirits on the Fall Run. At least the place you had paint your 8 last time should know how to mix it up properly Good luck and sorry for your loss...

 

Sorry to hear about the accident, Speed Racer. Nothing makes sense - it's a bright red car! It's probably a good time now to install the rear mudflaps. On the bright side, you can start saving gas money again with the Prius!

 

I think the "Prius" is a four letter word... gas savings or not. :p

 

Don't even get me started on the Prius. Cars that drive that bad should be banned.

When I went to pick up a rental on Saturday they only had a Prius and a few trucks to chose from. I told them I'd rather wait until Monday so that I could pick up a Mazda3 instead. Gotta keep it in the family.


Anyways back on the topic of Watkins Glen. You can find some photos and videos of the event on the NASA Northeast Forum

 

Spin9k, Tigger:

Well, the squirliness of the back end also depends on how hard you squeeze on the brake in the braking zone. I've used to stand on the brake in between the 100 and 200 feet marker before the bus stop in my other car without any drama. Of course I can't do it with the 8 now as its getting really nervous! I started applying the brake at around the 300 feet market instead.

Btw, I've used the Mazdaspeed pads and they're great! Without sorting out the problem with the backend I think its useless to go with any full-blown track pads. Speaking of which, seems like SpeedRacer has fixed the problem with the stiffer suspension setup. I think that helps to control the issues of weight transfer and potential excessive toe-out under heavy braking situation.

>RotaryZZ, you going to join us next time? Sounds like you'd have had a >blast out there with us!
Sure I would love to. I've never go with the NASA before as I used to go with PCA and BMWCCA folks. How long is each run session and how many run groups are there? Btw, did anyone go with these folks at all? http://www.mazdadrivers.com/

>As for checking the coil’s ......................................
What exactly is causing this to happen and how common is this problem? I guess you'll really feel the big loss of power if that happens right?


SpeedRacer,

I'm pleased to hear that you've get rid of the instability problem with the stiffer suspension setup. What kind of coil-over you've btw? I wonder how it feels comparing to the the Mazdaspeed suspension?

Did you have the car corner-balanced and re-aligned after putting in the new suspension. Coil-over supposed to be great but I'm just worried about the almost infinite adjustability and its effects on the car. I supposed if I've the equipment and the time then it'll be fun to play with the settings :-)

>........ my next performance mod will be R-compound tires.
I agree but personally I don't think its such a big issue in Watkins Glen. I think it'll make more of a difference in tracks like Summit Point and Jefferson as they've more turns and shorter straightaways in between.
On my last 2 laps of the session while in Summit Point, the OEM tires just won't hold it anymore. Even when I aimed at the apex the car just sliding away from it!
So, what kind of R-tire you've in mind for the 8 for next season?

>Even with the deficit in power I didn't have any problems catching and >occassionally passing the 350Z, STi ......................
That reminds me of my last track event at Summit Point. I've played with a 928 for 3, 4 laps. That car has about 100 more hp than the 8 with a big V8, but I was all over his bumper everywhere on the track except the long front straight. Once we got on the straight, I only see him just walking away from me and there is nothing I can do about it. What a bummer! :-(

>but I was able to close the gaps in the corners especially in the Bus Stop
I usually do the catch up on the big, slight downhill band right after the bus stop section.

>When I was waiting to turn into my drive way I got hit from behind.
I'm sorry to hear this. It sure feels sucks especially you're almost home. There are just too many idiots driving in this country!

 

:D Happy to hear there are others out there trying out the Glen. I went with the Shelby Club of Rochester at the end of August. This year the format changed ... for the better might I add. 4 - 40 min. session / day (2 days) for about the same price you guys have said for the advance guys.
It was the first time I went with the 8. I also was able to compare notes with another 8 (also from Mich). I got to show him my lines.

He was surprised at the lap times (as much as I was - he was timing from the passenger seat). Pretty good for virtually stock.

I find that the "real" measure is the entire package (car + driver) and not just the car. I have experienced quite a few "high powered"cars with drivers who exhibit poor lines and rely on long straightaways to feel "fast". Unfortunately, they usually feel less courteous to let you by because you are in a lesser car.... but the funny thing is, you were not behind them from the start of the lap, so wouldn't that imply that you were faster because you are behind them now? (a leap of logic too great for some).