'04 RX8 Issues
11-23-2018 | 06:21 PM
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'04 RX8 Issues
Hey guys,
I got a few issues with my recently purchased RX8, but before I get to that I just want to say this:
Thanks for all the info on the RX8 that you guys provided it has been awesome looking at a forum like this and learning the ins and outs of the car that I was about to buy. Lots of good info and people on this forum.
Now, onto the problem:
Backstory:
When i bought the car a couple months ago, the old owner did not really look like he did any research on the car. It was his first car and neither he or his dad looked like a mechanic. I know that this means the car was probably not maintained properly.
He had some problem with the car, which was the reason he sold it to me. He was driving on an freeway on-ramp getting on the freeway when the car started acting up. the rpm's were dropping and he didn't have the power anymore. he pulled out on the exit and as soon as he stopped, the car stalled. after that he never managed to turn it back on.
The reason i bought it is that at the time I really wanted an 8 and I was looking into it on these forums for the common problems. When I found this car on CL, I was very happy since he was advertising for 1300 and I got him down to 600 because I knew he didn't know what to do with it. As for the problem, I expected the low compression to be the main issue and so I was sure that if i could do the seafoam/ATF trick, it would do the job and i'd have a prefect condition 8 for 600.
It did not turn out like that... it has been months and i can't figure out what the real problem is. My dad is a good mechanic but he never worked on rotarys and it is our first time. This forum was what we relied on, but now as a last resort i'm having to actually post to get an answer.
Ok, with that out of the way, here is what symptoms we got after I got it home and what we did to fix.
-First, the car started up once without any fixes. the tow truck driver kept trying and it eventually started up. it was amazing because it was so unexpected.
I got a few issues with my recently purchased RX8, but before I get to that I just want to say this:
Thanks for all the info on the RX8 that you guys provided it has been awesome looking at a forum like this and learning the ins and outs of the car that I was about to buy. Lots of good info and people on this forum.
Now, onto the problem:
Backstory:
When i bought the car a couple months ago, the old owner did not really look like he did any research on the car. It was his first car and neither he or his dad looked like a mechanic. I know that this means the car was probably not maintained properly.
He had some problem with the car, which was the reason he sold it to me. He was driving on an freeway on-ramp getting on the freeway when the car started acting up. the rpm's were dropping and he didn't have the power anymore. he pulled out on the exit and as soon as he stopped, the car stalled. after that he never managed to turn it back on.
The reason i bought it is that at the time I really wanted an 8 and I was looking into it on these forums for the common problems. When I found this car on CL, I was very happy since he was advertising for 1300 and I got him down to 600 because I knew he didn't know what to do with it. As for the problem, I expected the low compression to be the main issue and so I was sure that if i could do the seafoam/ATF trick, it would do the job and i'd have a prefect condition 8 for 600.
It did not turn out like that... it has been months and i can't figure out what the real problem is. My dad is a good mechanic but he never worked on rotarys and it is our first time. This forum was what we relied on, but now as a last resort i'm having to actually post to get an answer.
Ok, with that out of the way, here is what symptoms we got after I got it home and what we did to fix.
-First, the car started up once without any fixes. the tow truck driver kept trying and it eventually started up. it was amazing because it was so unexpected.
-As a note, the car was running rough and stalling under 2k rpms. If you let the gas go, it would just drop rpms and stall. -THIS ISSUE NEVER GOT SOLVED AND IS MY MAIN PROBLEM NOW-When we got it home, to get it started up, we have to crank it for a long while and press the gas just enough that the rpm is good enough to start, but if i press too much, the rpms drop like its flooding or something.
-When it starts, I have to keep the gas pressed to keep it on. i can safely keep it at about 2k rpm, but any lower and the engine shakes, it misfires, and wants to stall.
-To fix it, First we replaced the Plugs. same problem. Then we looked at the coils and they had the white mark at the bottom and one of them didnt produce a spark when we tested it. Replaced 3 because of funds.(the one we left in should be good, it sparks normal i think)
-Then we cleaned the throttle body and the air box and the thing with the MAF. The grooves on that piece had oil on the bottom so we cleaned with a bit of gas.I thought maybe the guy put too much oil. But we didnt see oil in the throttle body and it seemed ok but we cleaned anyway.
-Cleaned MAF
-Then, we checked the fuel pressure. First, out of the pump, then before the fuel injectors and both were good. about 60 as we turn the ignition to on a couple of times.
-Of course the battery was bought new because the car didn't even have the right Crank number.
-The starter was the old weak one and i found the faster one at pick-a-part. Though i am not so sure if it really is faster. the numbers match the fast one but the sound doesnt sound like the ones on yt.
-We also did the ATF trick. Left it in there for like 2 days. The smoke was Awesome! loved it... not so much the neighbors lol. they came out expecting a fire.-That didn't seem to have as much impact as I expected tho. It made starts a bit easier i think...-After some time tho, when the car turned on again, We noticed a burning smell. and at this point I had a flash back to a post with a burning floor board because of the cat... and lo and behold, my cat was RED HOT Glowing. I put my hand under the passenger chair and it was super hot.-Of course I gutted the cat after and bought a good one from a guy off CL so I can replace easy when smog comes. Problem is, I waited too long to turn off the car and the heat actually melted the O2 sensor's plug together. The male and female plug is fused and can't come apart. No check engine light came on about the sensor tho.-Tried plugging and unplugging the barometer, the secondary air pump and seeing if that made a difference but no.
Here we are today, The car is sitting there, without the injectors and the air intake, and a broken solenoid valve. (that last part is my fault lol)
The injectors were tested and they work as expected. so i am out of options here.
Sorry about the long winded explanation but in order to save your time, i thought it would be the best to explain everything quickly,
Here's the TL'DR:
-Replaced:Plugs, Coils, Battery
-Gutted CAT
-Tested Injectors
-Cleaned Air Intake
-Did the ATF trick
-Changed Starter
Symptom:
-Hard start, even when cold.
-Rough idle when it sometimes starts up. Misfires and engine shakes.
-Idles OK after 2k rpms but as soon as I put into drive, it shuts off
-If you rev it hard, it misfires one very loud bang and then it doesn't misfire as much any more.
-Check engine light is on but since we reset the battery a lot, it clears it. also I think one code was for a misfire.
Thanks again. Any help appreciated
-When it starts, I have to keep the gas pressed to keep it on. i can safely keep it at about 2k rpm, but any lower and the engine shakes, it misfires, and wants to stall.
-To fix it, First we replaced the Plugs. same problem. Then we looked at the coils and they had the white mark at the bottom and one of them didnt produce a spark when we tested it. Replaced 3 because of funds.(the one we left in should be good, it sparks normal i think)
-Then we cleaned the throttle body and the air box and the thing with the MAF. The grooves on that piece had oil on the bottom so we cleaned with a bit of gas.I thought maybe the guy put too much oil. But we didnt see oil in the throttle body and it seemed ok but we cleaned anyway.
-Cleaned MAF
-Then, we checked the fuel pressure. First, out of the pump, then before the fuel injectors and both were good. about 60 as we turn the ignition to on a couple of times.
-Of course the battery was bought new because the car didn't even have the right Crank number.
-The starter was the old weak one and i found the faster one at pick-a-part. Though i am not so sure if it really is faster. the numbers match the fast one but the sound doesnt sound like the ones on yt.
-We also did the ATF trick. Left it in there for like 2 days. The smoke was Awesome! loved it... not so much the neighbors lol. they came out expecting a fire.-That didn't seem to have as much impact as I expected tho. It made starts a bit easier i think...-After some time tho, when the car turned on again, We noticed a burning smell. and at this point I had a flash back to a post with a burning floor board because of the cat... and lo and behold, my cat was RED HOT Glowing. I put my hand under the passenger chair and it was super hot.-Of course I gutted the cat after and bought a good one from a guy off CL so I can replace easy when smog comes. Problem is, I waited too long to turn off the car and the heat actually melted the O2 sensor's plug together. The male and female plug is fused and can't come apart. No check engine light came on about the sensor tho.-Tried plugging and unplugging the barometer, the secondary air pump and seeing if that made a difference but no.
Here we are today, The car is sitting there, without the injectors and the air intake, and a broken solenoid valve. (that last part is my fault lol)
The injectors were tested and they work as expected. so i am out of options here.
Sorry about the long winded explanation but in order to save your time, i thought it would be the best to explain everything quickly,
Here's the TL'DR:
-Replaced:Plugs, Coils, Battery
-Gutted CAT
-Tested Injectors
-Cleaned Air Intake
-Did the ATF trick
-Changed Starter
Symptom:
-Hard start, even when cold.
-Rough idle when it sometimes starts up. Misfires and engine shakes.
-Idles OK after 2k rpms but as soon as I put into drive, it shuts off
-If you rev it hard, it misfires one very loud bang and then it doesn't misfire as much any more.
-Check engine light is on but since we reset the battery a lot, it clears it. also I think one code was for a misfire.
Thanks again. Any help appreciated
11-23-2018 | 06:47 PM
#3
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From: North carolina
Ahh maybe you should check the compression. You should use a compression tester for a rotary, but you can get away with one for a normal car just read the 3 numbers that you get thought each crank over. Most likely doesn't have any compression or at least not enough
11-23-2018 | 07:36 PM
#5
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I did expect a compression problem. That is why i did the ATF trick. I was hoping that might help it.
I have not done a compression test, but you can feel each rotation definitely has a whoosh at each chamber when you spin it with plug out.
I got the regular coils from Pep boys. I made sure it was the rx8 ones but not the expensive ones
I have not done a compression test, but you can feel each rotation definitely has a whoosh at each chamber when you spin it with plug out.
I got the regular coils from Pep boys. I made sure it was the rx8 ones but not the expensive ones
11-23-2018 | 08:42 PM
#13
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From: North carolina
Really depends but most likely it won't be as eazy as just replacing the seal. If it is the compression you need to tare the engine down and look at it and see if you are able to save anything or if it's a lost cause, engines with lots of damage can seem like engines with not too much damage but you can't really tell until it is apart
11-23-2018 | 09:29 PM
#16
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I would check the compression before doing anything else, otherwise you could be wasting a lot of time and money chasing your tail. Make sure you've got the basics, then check for more complicated issues. Sounds like you've confirmed fuel and spark, only thing left is compression.
11-24-2018 | 12:48 AM
#17
The stalling below 2k thing has a few common causes:
- low compression
- clutch safety switch
- coils connected in incorrect order
- maaybe ESS profile. Look up "20-time brake pedal stomp".
The last 2 you can check in your parking spot or whatever. You'd be surprised how often people mix up which coil goes to which spark plug.
Since you cooked the cat, I'm leaning toward that. You're dumping unburnt fuel, there's a reason for that (which is not compression).
Just for kicks, try disconnecting the MAF too and see if behaves any better.
The question of whether its apex or other seals is kinda the wrong question. If any of them need replacing, the entire engine has to come apart and at 120k, I doubt many parts are reusable.
Get a compression test. At least a piston one, if finding a rotary tester is difficult.
- low compression
- clutch safety switch
- coils connected in incorrect order
- maaybe ESS profile. Look up "20-time brake pedal stomp".
The last 2 you can check in your parking spot or whatever. You'd be surprised how often people mix up which coil goes to which spark plug.
Since you cooked the cat, I'm leaning toward that. You're dumping unburnt fuel, there's a reason for that (which is not compression).
Just for kicks, try disconnecting the MAF too and see if behaves any better.
The question of whether its apex or other seals is kinda the wrong question. If any of them need replacing, the entire engine has to come apart and at 120k, I doubt many parts are reusable.
Get a compression test. At least a piston one, if finding a rotary tester is difficult.
11-24-2018 | 02:26 AM
#18
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Joined: Apr 2017
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From: BC, Canada
ATF/Seafoam/Zoom-Zoom kit is really just a last-ditch bandaid. If you have to use it, realize that at best, you are buying a little bit of time until you have to rebuild it and for the most part, it doesn't do much.
11-24-2018 | 06:07 AM
#19
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Thx for the replies guys.
So for the car, it is automatic. So no clutch switch.
I disconnected the coils a couple times after that and im sure they are in the right order.
I did do the 20 pedal trick and the odometer button trick and it didnt seem to improve.
We did the MAF and the barometer and the Secondary air pump disconnect also to see if it makes difference but nothing.
That's my main reason for the confusion tho, Why did the cat burn up? I wasn't burned the first couple of times we turned the car on, and we had it on for longer than 10 min before this time. But this one time, it got red hot.
That was the reason we thought about the injectors, because if it's leaking it could make the car lean...lean right?... too much gas. Im wondering if we tested them right too, We connected a rubber hose full of cleaner and blew into it like a straw. then connect the terminals and the stuff did spray. Should be good, right?
I will have to do the compression test using the slow mo method then. Taking out the valve thing in the tester to allow the pressure to get out and film the tester. I found that method somewhere here or YT i think.
I know it's a last ditch effort, but i have heard really good things about the seafoam/ATF trick. I just don't want to take the engine out and rebuild.
So for the car, it is automatic. So no clutch switch.
I disconnected the coils a couple times after that and im sure they are in the right order.
I did do the 20 pedal trick and the odometer button trick and it didnt seem to improve.
We did the MAF and the barometer and the Secondary air pump disconnect also to see if it makes difference but nothing.
That's my main reason for the confusion tho, Why did the cat burn up? I wasn't burned the first couple of times we turned the car on, and we had it on for longer than 10 min before this time. But this one time, it got red hot.
That was the reason we thought about the injectors, because if it's leaking it could make the car lean...lean right?... too much gas. Im wondering if we tested them right too, We connected a rubber hose full of cleaner and blew into it like a straw. then connect the terminals and the stuff did spray. Should be good, right?
I will have to do the compression test using the slow mo method then. Taking out the valve thing in the tester to allow the pressure to get out and film the tester. I found that method somewhere here or YT i think.
I know it's a last ditch effort, but i have heard really good things about the seafoam/ATF trick. I just don't want to take the engine out and rebuild.
11-24-2018 | 09:23 AM
#20
Don't take it out and rebuild it, buy one rebuilt by someone with experience. They are not trivial to rebuild right and you definitely don't want to do it twice. As I said, at 120k there probably isn't much in that engine that can be reused anyway. Big parts like housings wear out.
You already did the ATF trick, I'd stop hoping that is a solution to this problem and look for other solutions.
Also don't take it out until you figure out the problem, because then whatever it is could kill your new engine also. If you can get it to warm idle, get fuel trim data from OBD. That will tell you if the computer is demanding the extra fuel.
Too much fuel = rich, not lean.
You already did the ATF trick, I'd stop hoping that is a solution to this problem and look for other solutions.
Also don't take it out until you figure out the problem, because then whatever it is could kill your new engine also. If you can get it to warm idle, get fuel trim data from OBD. That will tell you if the computer is demanding the extra fuel.
Too much fuel = rich, not lean.
Last edited by Loki; 11-24-2018 at 09:28 AM.
12-03-2018 | 02:16 PM
#22
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Everyone is so quick to throw compression in there!!!!
Id start with CEL codes....is the Check Engine Light on? what codes is it throwing?
Have you looked at you ESS- Eccentric Shaft Sensor. Located at the front bottom pulley AKA Eccentric Shaft Pully ( piston engines- Crank Pulley) Make sure the ESS is cleaned well for a accurate reading. The Early year RX8s the front main seals go bad and leak oil which covers it and causes poor idling conditions.
You say you can get it started with a struggle, but has misfire and cant rev over 2k? or drop below 2k or it dies......this leads to believe you have a ignition problem or MAF is bad.
But check all of you plugs, wires, and coil packs again.......I recently had to replace one coil pack. It was sparking but it wasnt consistant like the other 3 and the CEL code was a missfire.
Youve checked the fuel system/ fuel pump and injectors..... have you tried new fuel in the tank? how long has the car sat?
As for that solinoid- no biggy. I broke mine as well at the connector. Replaced it, cheap fix. But it wont keep the car from running.
Gut the cat!!!! Do not run any kind of catalitic convertor.....Fuel wont clog it as fast as the oil will.
My conclusion is that you need to go over everything once more. Compression doesnt seem to likely, seeing as it died while driving and you can still start it after so long
Anytime you have any kind of engine issue, everyone automatically Says Compression.
Since your 8 is a automatic, have you tried starting the car in a neutral gear versus park? maybe this a transmission related issue.
Id start with CEL codes....is the Check Engine Light on? what codes is it throwing?
Have you looked at you ESS- Eccentric Shaft Sensor. Located at the front bottom pulley AKA Eccentric Shaft Pully ( piston engines- Crank Pulley) Make sure the ESS is cleaned well for a accurate reading. The Early year RX8s the front main seals go bad and leak oil which covers it and causes poor idling conditions.
You say you can get it started with a struggle, but has misfire and cant rev over 2k? or drop below 2k or it dies......this leads to believe you have a ignition problem or MAF is bad.
But check all of you plugs, wires, and coil packs again.......I recently had to replace one coil pack. It was sparking but it wasnt consistant like the other 3 and the CEL code was a missfire.
Youve checked the fuel system/ fuel pump and injectors..... have you tried new fuel in the tank? how long has the car sat?
As for that solinoid- no biggy. I broke mine as well at the connector. Replaced it, cheap fix. But it wont keep the car from running.
Gut the cat!!!! Do not run any kind of catalitic convertor.....Fuel wont clog it as fast as the oil will.
My conclusion is that you need to go over everything once more. Compression doesnt seem to likely, seeing as it died while driving and you can still start it after so long
Anytime you have any kind of engine issue, everyone automatically Says Compression.
Since your 8 is a automatic, have you tried starting the car in a neutral gear versus park? maybe this a transmission related issue.
12-03-2018 | 02:24 PM
#23
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also the ATF and Seafoam trick will help it start easier with Hot Starts, it will not fix cold start issues or missfires and no revving issues....
It will not hurt to do though.
you can run lines from the service ports on the lower intake, run them both into the bottle of seafoam, disconnect your ignition so that it doesnt start and run. do a few cranks and in between cranking checking how much seafoam has been sucked in. I did a whole bottle before. But half a bottle should be enough. Let it sit for 24hrs.
REMOVE CAT- Catalitic Converter before doing this, if isnt already clogged, this sure hell will clogg TF outta of it
It will not hurt to do though.
you can run lines from the service ports on the lower intake, run them both into the bottle of seafoam, disconnect your ignition so that it doesnt start and run. do a few cranks and in between cranking checking how much seafoam has been sucked in. I did a whole bottle before. But half a bottle should be enough. Let it sit for 24hrs.
REMOVE CAT- Catalitic Converter before doing this, if isnt already clogged, this sure hell will clogg TF outta of it
12-03-2018 | 02:26 PM
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04-01-2019 | 12:42 AM
#25
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Posted this in another forum but wanted to post it here too.
I now own a 2004 RX8 after moving back state side.
The problem I am having with my car is a loud sound coming from the air intake only while the car is underload and shortly after the car has reached operating temperatures and driving it for a while. You can say it sounds like a old truck, you can say it's making popping sounds. I removed the air intake and notice black residue inside the air intake tube, so I cleaned it out and the MAF sensor. The intake by the way is a short ram with a K&N filter on it. Does anyone know what may be causing this sound to come from my air intake?
Again, this sound occurs when The car is in drive and I am stepping on the gas. I hear it when I am driving and it is loud like the tail pipes on a old truck. I can hear the normal sound of my engine and this louder sound that is coming from the air intake. I had my hood raised while someone set my parking brakes and held the brake pedal and step on the gas and it's no question that this continues (rapid popping sound) "don't know a better way to describe it" is loudly come from the air intake. The only code I have is for the crankshaft position sensor (ESS)
I now own a 2004 RX8 after moving back state side.
The problem I am having with my car is a loud sound coming from the air intake only while the car is underload and shortly after the car has reached operating temperatures and driving it for a while. You can say it sounds like a old truck, you can say it's making popping sounds. I removed the air intake and notice black residue inside the air intake tube, so I cleaned it out and the MAF sensor. The intake by the way is a short ram with a K&N filter on it. Does anyone know what may be causing this sound to come from my air intake?
Again, this sound occurs when The car is in drive and I am stepping on the gas. I hear it when I am driving and it is loud like the tail pipes on a old truck. I can hear the normal sound of my engine and this louder sound that is coming from the air intake. I had my hood raised while someone set my parking brakes and held the brake pedal and step on the gas and it's no question that this continues (rapid popping sound) "don't know a better way to describe it" is loudly come from the air intake. The only code I have is for the crankshaft position sensor (ESS)