Calikid219

Alright guys, I really need some help. And first of all, I didn't jump into an RX-8 without any prior knowledge, I know what it is and how difficult it can be. That being said, I recently bought a 2004 RX-8 for $1500 and the car is perfect, it just doesn't run of course. So, the owner before me had the car for about 3 weeks and he said it did run and it ran well, but it would stall out on him and he would have to wait to restart it. Then one day he went out to the car and it wouldn't start at all. I'm pretty sure he knows nothing about rotary engines because I noticed that he replaced the four plugs with THREE leading plugs and ONE trailing plug. I don't know if this could cause the entire engine to crap out but that's my first question. So basically I don't really trust anything this guy says or did which is only changing the plugs and the oil (hopefully he put the 5W-20 it requires). But I really feel like this engine is not junk, I tried deflooding it by taking out the two leading plugs and it certainly seemed like it was making compression with the bursts of air that were shooting out of the plug holes. But even after doing that procedure and trying the "crank for 10 seconds then wait for 60 seconds" deflooding procedure, it still won't start. However, when I feather my foot while cranking it, it seems like it wants to start but it just won't. This brings me to another intriguing fact about this car. It has a "racing style" switch in the center console that I was SOO curious about when I first bought it. I thought it was possibly a kill switch but the car does the same thing whether it's flipped one way or the other. However, i followed the wires from the switch and they lead to a Viper 350HV alarm system which I don't know a whole lot about but I'm pretty sure it can have a kill switch connected to it however it also has a "valet button" connected to it as well which I haven't tried messing with yet. I'm sure the racing style switch has been switch on and off a lot so could it have tripped an alarm and cause the engine not to start? I've also changed the spark plugs and checked for spark (which it did have), changed the spark plug wires and checked the coils and they seem fine. Also, there was some sort of a red liquid in the K&N intake system which we don't really know what it is, we were thinking starter fluid but some dripped out when I took the intake off and it still hasn't evaporated so it doesn't seem too likely (Don't say it's blood, I've heard that far too many times...). I really feel like this rotary isn't dead yet and I know this is a lot of info but let me know if you have any questions, I really want to drive this car or at least hear it run. Thanks!

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

Never fear, Jedi is here!
These are typical symptoms of a low compression engine.

finished reading your post and here are some additional thoughts:

• Not having the right plugs would cause the engine to run a little rough but it should still start if the leadings are in there.
• 5w-20; don't sweat that much. Our little fire breather motors will run on just about anything you put in there. In fact, for warmer climates we recommend a heavier oil.
• No clue on the weird 'racing switch'. I'd probably trace the wires back and just uninstall the whole alarm system but I doubt it's causing the issue.
• the red liquid: could it be the previous owner used too much of the cleaning oil that K&N sells? It is red...
• Glad you checked coils and plugs because those are often neglected and can lead to issues down the road.
• Does the car have an OEM catalytic converter? Midpipe?

Lastly, and I can't stress this enough: You should get a compression test done with a rotary compression tester.
this will be the fastest way to know if the motor is cooked or not and then we can either provide options for you to get it repaired / replaced or continue to trouble shoot other issues.


2nd edit: just noticed your username. Where abouts in California are you?
There are a bunch of really good rotary shops in SoCal so if you're in this area we could help point you there as well.

FunRun8

iTrader: (5)

^What he said, especially the part about the oil on the K&N but my big concern is that if it has THAT much oil it's well over saturated and will definitely NOT allow enough air flow which in turn can exasperate a flooding condition and prevent starting as well. All engines need both air and fuel one or the other lacking and well, it's pretty obvious what happens, or in this case what doesn't. I'd pull it and try without it temporarily.

I think the advice to at least temporarily disconnect the alarm system is also a good idea, just another potential problem to diagnose that you don't have info on so better for it to be removed from the system until you can confirm the issues at large and yes it may have some sort of cut off if not properly armed and disarmed that requires some sort of reboot to activate. Can't the previous owner even give you info on the functions of that?

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

It could easily be flooded......

If it's a MT get a rope and have a buddy pull you ...let out the clutch slowly in second with the key on and it should start fairly quickly...with a LOT of smoke

Calikid219

Thanks for the replies guys, they've all helped! I've found out a bunch more information, let's see... The Viper alarm system has no power so it's not doing anything. I changed all four coils as I used an in-line spark checker and they weren't sparking correctly. I've also taken out all four spark plugs, cleaned them, and put the two trailing ones back in. With the leading plugs out, I put about an ounce of oil in both holes, cranked it a few times, then put the leading plugs back in and let it sit for an hour or so. After an hour, I tried starting it and I started getting smoke (I hadn't seen this much smoke yet) so I did some deflooding again and after the deflooding, it started up! Hallelujah! Not so fast... I got the temperature up by keeping the rpms high and gradually started bringing them down however below about 2000 rpms it would begin to shake and felt like it would stall out. So I held it at 2000 rpms for a minute or so and then the car died on me. I tried starting it once after it died and it wouldn't. I'm starting to think it's low compression and that the oil I put in gave it enough compression to run for those few minutes. Please tell me I'm wrong (just kidding, tell me your honest opinion).

FunRun8

iTrader: (5)

Well what's with the K&N? Did you do this with it in or out? Or did you clean it? Possibly it can't breathe? Especially at low RPM's,

Funny about the coils, I was going to mention that just because they "looked" good didn't mean they actually WERE good even if they fired it may not be a hot enough spark to fire as often as it has to for the rotary. I'd also not be very confident in the spark plugs either at this point or for that matter any of the ignition electrical components. I tend to just go for a completely new set up in a case like this and just save what ever came off for spares if it doesn't turn out to be the problem.

BTW that brings up another potential issue in all of this and that's a good strong battery with all of this cranking etc. going on, needs to have maximum charge and plenty of cranking amps available.

Calikid219

Alright it's been a little bit since my last post but I've found out a few things. By the way FunRun, when I started the car the first time I didn't have the filter on but I don't think it's hurting anything and this is why.

Today I was able to start the car 3 times after I replaced the starter with a new upgraded one! However, it will not hold any sort of idle. Once it gets down around 1300 rpm, it just starts to shake a lot and feels like it's going to bog out which is weird because it should idle around 750. Anyway, that was all with the filter on which is why I don't feel like it's hurting anything. I've also changed the MAF sensor because I thought maybe it would help but it didn't.

So, after the first time starting it today I realized it probably could use some oil and I was right, it was low. So I put enough oil in it to get it to about halfway on the dip stick. I then was able to start it, got it up to temp and let it stall out. Waited a bit, tried starting it again and it ran for a bit, then I let it stall again. I then reset the ECU because I thought maybe it was having some issues with the idle in that respect and tried starting it again. It wouldn't start but I thought it sounded a bit weird while I was cranking it. I looked underneath and there was a puddle of oil (I'm pretty sure it's oil, it was dark at that point). I don't know where it came from, but it kind of looked like the oil I had put into the car when I noticed it was low meaning it looked clean and it looked like the same amount I had put in.

I have NO idea what happened with that but I had no time to investigate as I had to wrap it up. I'm pretty sure I'm going to be removing the engine from the car and inspecting everything, then getting it rebuilt.

Also, I ripped out the Viper alarm system but kept the racing style switch as I will hook it up to something but I'm not sure what yet, any ideas? Haha thanks!

FunRun8

iTrader: (5)

How about one of these?


But on the thoughts of your car having so much oil leaking out of where? That sounds bad, but not sure how you came to the conclusion based on what you said that you still don't think it's the filter? Nothing you said really proves it isn't and in fact on the contrary, it's such an easy test, besides removing the air box (which is a bit of PITA) I've no idea why you haven't checked that yet? Anyway sounds like another priority at the moment.

RX8Soldier

iTrader: (24)

Try wiping the eccentric shaft position sensor with a dry cloth, or spray it with electric contact cleaner and wipe it off, then reset the NVRAM ( 20 brake pedal stomp procedure ).
I agree with what the others are saying, but try this, as well.

Calikid219

The car does have a K&N Intake on it so it's very easy to remove the filter but the car ran three times with the filter on, it just won't hold an idle. Do you really think it could be the filter?

And alright I'll mess with the ESP the next chance I get.

Love_Hounds

Yes, very common issue in fact.

Calikid219

Alright, I'll take a look at it.

Khurram

Lots of great info in here..

Also inspect all the intake hose make sure they are snug tight. I had one come loose and car won't hold at idle.

Calikid219

Great! I hope this will help others in the future. Also, those hoses were cracked at the ends on the intake side of the hoses so I cut them back and reinstalled them with brand new shiny hose clamps. That was about a week ago and today I can't get to the car but I was thinking about it and it seems that everything needs to be just right in order for the car to start. The starter needs to be spinning at max speed, the oil needs to be at a perfect level, and I need to do some special throttle feathering. Also it's almost like there's a dead spot somewhere around 700 rpm. Not "dead" like low on power, but "dead" like it can't run at that rpm. I feel like this because 1. It won't idle and 2. the starter needs to be running at max speed and I need to feather the throttle to push it over that dead spot. It's very weird! That's just what I'm thinking at this point...

RX8Soldier

iTrader: (24)

Don't confuse your line of thinking with real world troubleshooting

I've seen it happen where people are set on something that actually interferes with the troubleshooting process...

FunRun8

iTrader: (5)

It starts and runs but you keep saying that as soon as it gets to idle speed or even just a bit above it for that matter, it stalls out, that's an absolute symptom of an engine that can't breathe, as it's vacuum capability is lowest at idle and so a filter that in this case is over oiled will not allow enough air to pass to feed the engine at idle, where it's vacuum is lowest. Not saying for certain it is the filter, (no way to know honestly on a forum) but everything you're saying is pointing to that possibility for certain. But you're also right it all sounds like the engine is asking for perfect conditions and there's no doubt it may have a rebuild in it's near future but for piece of mind and maybe even a little fun time with it before that becomes absolutely necessary I figure you'd like to get it running if possible so you know where you stand.

Calikid219

Soooo. It's been a little while since my last post and even though there were still things I could have looked at, I decided that I wanted this car to basically be a blank slate for me. So in the past week or so I've pulled the engine out and completely disassembled it down to the block. Now I want to get it rebuilt obviously but there's nobody in northern Cali who will rebuild the Renesis for some reason. I kinda want to avoid as much of a shipping cost as I can so I guess LA is the best place for me to ship the 13B... Anyway, now that I have everything out and disassembled, what would be the best things to replace? I'm definitely going to replace most, if not all, coolant/heater hoses (since I had to slice some of them to remove them from the thermostat housing), some vacuum lines, the battery terminal connections, and hopefully all gaskets (though I noticed that the lower intake manifold gasket is $115 alone? Wow...). I'm also thinking that maybe I should replace the fuel injectors just because why not? I don't know if that's a big deal though... And since it's easy right now, I kinda want to put on an aluminum flywheel. The clutch disc, I noticed, is an Exedy N312 or something like that and it's painted with some interesting rainbow colors like when titanium exhaust pipes get hot. I'm guessing it's not factory but I don't know. And the pressure plate still has all of its teeth and doesn't show many signs of wear or cracking so I think I'll leave those alone. My dad says I should look at the throw out bearing as they tend to go relatively easily and now's the time to change it. So let me know what you all think should be replaced or checked so that this car can have an almost brand new engine.

I also plan on cleaning pretty much everything, I've already done all the big parts (Exhaust manifold, lower intake manifold, etc.) and I noticed that the two sleeves on the lower intake manifold had a lot of "black stuff" on one side but the other side was clear. I don't know if this is normal or if I should be chipping this stuff out but I decided to consult here until I touch it. Let me know! Thanks!

FunRun8

iTrader: (5)

Why fuel injectors? Have them cleaned, and flow tested, not likely to need replacing, unnecessary cost possibly, not cheap either, coils if not new, plugs if not new, wires if not new, check and replace oil injectors for certain as needed, and definitely lines as well, possibly install a ground kit upon reinstall, maybe some others have some more ideas?

Calikid219

I don't know, I was just spit balling haha! Cleaning and flow testing are definitely better ideas but the coils, plugs, and wires are all brand new. And what do you mean by "ground kit"? A body kit?

hoosier1104

iTrader: (2)

He means improving the electrical ground.

RX8 (This is for example only and you should do your research on available kits.)