Jdavenport

Hi everyone,

I'm brand spankin new to this site and I'm hoping you can help me with some insight. I just bought an 04 rx8 about a month ago. It only has 40k miles on it and has been running great since I bought it. However, i left on a trip for a week and came back, and it wouldn't start. I figured that maybe the engine was flooded, so I did what i read on here and tried putting my gas pedal to the floor while cranking. After a few attempts it didn't work so I got it towed to a dealership to get deflooded. Got a phone call from the dealer today telling me that my spark plugs were put in the holes incorrectly (Have never touched them) and that the engine flood has caused my catalytic converter to go out. Has anyone ever heard of this happening before?? What I thought was a simple $150 fix is now going to cost me around $2200 by the mechanics estimate. Please help if you have any info!!!!

BigCajun

iTrader: (1)

Welcome,
I'm not as knowledgeable as a lot of the members here, but I'll give my opinion for now, strictly anecdotal.
If you drove your car for a month without a problem, I wouldn't think the plugs are installed wrong. I think from what I've read, that would have ruined your engine.
If your car was running fine when you parked it, it's hard to believe the cat is keeping it from starting unless a piece broke off and blocked the exhaust
when you tried to start it.

BigCajun

iTrader: (1)

I don't think a flooded cat could get ruined unless the gas ignited in it on start-up and structurally damaged it.

-_- just.gimme.my.ticket

ill bet 2200 doesnt include their labor.
ask the mechanic if theres any damage to the sparkplug threads on the rotor housing. if not go get your car verify the cat actually IS BAD,(check for code p220 i belive or 202?) if it is get one from somebody on this site selling theres or get a high flow cat from rx7store (only aftermarket cat tat can pass smog) looking at about $200-$500 here.

install everything yourself by reading the proper diy's on this site and be done for around $600bucks with the peice of mind it was done RIGHT
then go throw a rock through the dealerships showroom for charging you 3x as much

Jdavenport

Thanks for the help guys. I called around to a couple dealerships and they said they had never heard of an engine flood causing a catalytic converter failure. And I don't really understand how fuel getting in there could ruin it (unless it was ignited like you said before)


Does anybody have a cat for sale?? haha

-_- just.gimme.my.ticket

dont just buy one cause the dealer said so. test it first get a code scanner

Jdavenport

I just found this emissions recall for an 04 rx8. It states:

[I] Due to insufficient control of oil supply, the engine may suffer
from the lack of engine oil under certain driving conditions. If the
vehicle continues to be driven with such condition, the sealing
capability of combustion chamber may be degraded, causing
drivability or emission problems. Due to wrong PCM calibration,
carbon may deposit on spark plugs or plugs may be flooded
during engine start, causing difficult start condition. In addition,
as a result of wrong service procedure when recovering from
difficult start condition, the catalytic converter may be damaged
on some vehicles.
Remedy: Mazda at no charge will reprogram the PCM for latest
calibration and inspect plus repair/replace if necessary: spark
plugs, engine, and catalytic converter

Will mazda legally be forced to honor this??


http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/recall/420b07003.pdf

-_- just.gimme.my.ticket

if they qouted you a price then your car probably already had the recalls done. cant hurt to ask tho, id call the dealers where the car was serviced previously

BigCajun

iTrader: (1)

I believe the owner at the time of the recall was responsible for bringing it in after notification.
I doubt if it's retroactive.

BigCajun

iTrader: (1)

If you are mechanically inclined, I would suggest learning to do it yourself. Save a lot of money.

Tuneups are not hard at all, cat is a bolt-on.
I replaced my bad cat with a midpipe, and did all work myself.

Plenty of DIY stickies for anything you'd want to do, if you want to learn.

BigCajun

iTrader: (1)

FWIW I have the Torque app & OBD Bluetooth dongle, $30, reads & clears codes & many other cool functions, including real coolant temp displays.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Yes, raw fuel kills cats, relatively fast. However, dead cats around a flooding usually aren't killed from the flood itself.

To explain this a bit better...

Flooding only occurs when something is wrong. A perfectly healthy engine with healthy ignition, grounding points, battery, and starter will never flood, even shutting it off cold. Flooding will only occur when one of those points is not healthy. In your case, I would lay money that your ignition is shot. Why? because our coils, plugs, and wires typically start to fail around the 30,000 mile mark. Part of regular maintenance of owning an RX-8 is replacing the ignition regularly, and paying attention to how the car is running to know if your ignition is failing faster than that ~30,000 average.

When the ignition starts to fail, the engine starts misfiring slightly. The ECU often doesn't even realize that you are misfiring. Incomplete burns start dumping unconsumed fuel and air into the exhaust, where they finish burning. This results in essentially a blowtorch on your cat, which will indeed kill it pretty quick. The failing ignition also makes it increasingly likely that you will flood.

So your flood didn't kill the cat, but the flood and the dead cat are both separate results of the same failure point.

Our ignition is a point of incredibly common failure, and it is also the starting point of a HUGE cascading failure stream that must be caught early to save big dollar repairs.

Yes, this isn't so much "your fault" as it is a new car to you, but the car doesn't really care who is driving it, neglect will still kill stuff fast.

This post in my new owner's thread goes into more detail about ignition health: https://www.rx8club.com/new-member-f...4/#post3663967


Yes, recalls are permanent. Per federal law, emissions and safety recalls won't have an expiration date, or a requirement that it be the original owner. If you have a car that has an open recall, the dealer is obligated to repair it at no cost to you.

What you don't know is if that recall applies to your car, and if it does apply, if it has already been done. You can call MNAO with your VIN to get the recall history on it, to answer those two questions.


There are cheaper options out there than paying the dealer $2,200 for a cat. Namely, other dealers that will only charge $1,300. It's still expensive, so I recommend watching the classifieds section for a used cat, if you feel you must have a cat. If you don't have to worry about emissions there, gutting the cat with a metal rod is a short term solution, with a midpipe being a longer term solution that is far cheaper than buying a new cat. Even the best midpipe out there is only $500.

BigCajun

iTrader: (1)

Hi RIWWP,
Thanks for clarifying the recall question.
Good to know.

eludinu

This +1

oh and as for the cat... just drop it. take out the o2 sensor and use a hammer and 2 inch pipe.takes about 4 good whacks lol. you wont pass emissions but thats of no concern to me. i have a friend that does all my inspections. im new to the rotary world as well. these guys and their diys really enlightened me. the "new owners start her" thread is excellent.

-_- just.gimme.my.ticket

gutted cats are garbage midpipe or bust

eludinu

waiting for mine to come in the mail. but until then just knock it out. no more hesitation above 4k and i can drive my car again.

MsDenise

what I recently learned, don't go off of what your dealer service rep says immediately.
I was told my cat was "destroyed", then I was told maybe it wasn't the cat. Then I was told "it wasn't time for mazda to replace it".
Get a second opinion before you go throwing money around at your dealer.