cheapest trusted ignition coils 2014?
#51
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I typically don't factor in the possibility of changing your own dwell when i make coil recommendations, because owners that are asking about what coils to use most likely don't have any flash based tuning in hand. Most DIY coil threads I've seen HAVE had some sort of issue that has to be solved, typically a dwell adjustment though not always, and the people that haven't been able to make that change end up going back to OE coils. For the average owner with a stock 8, the cost of a DIY kit ends up including the cost of a tuning method, which immediately makes the kit not plug and play. The BHR kit has the advantage that it IS plug and play. Even if I could put together a kit for your quoted price that worked right the first time, the plug and play value is still considerable just to avoid wasted time or mistakes due to ignorance, arogance, or butter fingers. This is true for most people.
For example with my MSM, when I had the choice of a plug and play $2,000 ECU with post-purchase support and tunes or a bare bones ECU that has to be manually wired and configured for $850 ... I picked the more expensive plug and play option, and haven't regretted it a bit. I get your same argument from the guys that picked the other option.![Smilie](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Back to coils....
When I went to educate myself on what dwell is and what factors are important, I can easily see the problems with incorrect dwell times. In a general way, they can be summarized as:
- Under dwelling the coils typically leads to misfires as the coils can't charge sufficiently before needing to release the charge
- Over-dwelling the coils will shorten their lifespan considerably as it builds heat that has to be held for longer than needed before releasing the charge.
So seeing a comment that suggests an raising of the dwell from a point that already functions well is something that makes me question what is really going on, and what kind of lifespan you can really expect.
For example with my MSM, when I had the choice of a plug and play $2,000 ECU with post-purchase support and tunes or a bare bones ECU that has to be manually wired and configured for $850 ... I picked the more expensive plug and play option, and haven't regretted it a bit. I get your same argument from the guys that picked the other option.
![Smilie](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Back to coils....
When I went to educate myself on what dwell is and what factors are important, I can easily see the problems with incorrect dwell times. In a general way, they can be summarized as:
- Under dwelling the coils typically leads to misfires as the coils can't charge sufficiently before needing to release the charge
- Over-dwelling the coils will shorten their lifespan considerably as it builds heat that has to be held for longer than needed before releasing the charge.
So seeing a comment that suggests an raising of the dwell from a point that already functions well is something that makes me question what is really going on, and what kind of lifespan you can really expect.
#52
Driving my unreliable rx8
Ok, you confused me a little. That coil setup worked for me for around 1000 miles before I raised the dwell. My pourpose for raising the Dwell was only with plans of going FI and wanting all the spark I can get.
#54
And don't get better performance , have more fun, and get better fuel economy out of your RX8 either. Ultimately its your fun and money. You have made your choice. BTW if you try to switch out the coils every 20,000 miles and they don't show failure, good luck with that warranty !
And you just need to return the coils and say 'they are giving me intermittent misfires', easy as that. Auto parts stores don't ever give trouble.
#55
40th anniversary Edition
I said it was his decision. I said he should get the coils he is happy with and can afford. I know what this thread is about. I think in the long run the BHR coils will be cheaper with lifetime use and better mpg each gallon of costly premium gas. As I and others on this thread have echoed, In the short run, getting the cheaper coils looks smart. but in the long run and in the hopefully long life of his RX8 getting cheaper coils with poorer mpg and repeated warranty replacement uncertainty and the risk of a failed coil leading to cat or engine damage, he would be better off financially with the BHR kit. But hey the op had really already made up his mind by middle of this thread . After that it looks like he was just wanting some validation for his choice. LOL
#56
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I said it was his decision. I said he should get the coils he is happy with and can afford. I know what this thread is about. I think in the long run the BHR coils will be cheaper with lifetime use and better mpg each gallon of costly premium gas. As I and others on this thread have echoed, In the short run, getting the cheaper coils looks smart. but in the long run and in the hopefully long life of his RX8 getting cheaper coils with poorer mpg and repeated warranty replacement uncertainty and the risk of a failed coil leading to cat or engine damage, he would be better off financially with the BHR kit. But hey the op had really already made up his mind by middle of this thread . After that it looks like he was just wanting some validation for his choice. LOL
![Naughty](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/naughty.gif)
#57
Rotary Evolution
0, because there is no gaurantee that a simple ignition will increase power or mileage with any repeatable effect from one car to another. ambient condition changes are usually enough to skew results to invalidate them because they are so minor in comparison. all you have to work with is that most people notice very minor gains to their averages, the benefit is the slight gains and support you buy with them.
Last edited by Karack; 03-11-2014 at 12:41 PM.
#58
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The power and mileage difference between a set of failing coils and any brand new ones is significant: https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tro...-plugs-234383/
#59
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That is the answer I was expecting. And I'm also expecting that the life of the coils varies quite a bit from driver to driver and from motor to motor. I've already installed my new coils on my car and since I don't know the brand or when my last coils were last replaced I'm going to see how long these last me before committing to getting bhrs next time. When my coils die and if I remember I will post how long they lasted and what I decide to do.
For now though and for anyone who just had the same question as I did going into this problem (which is the title of the thread) The intermotors from advanced auto are probably the way to go. But remember to order them in two separate orders to maximize your discounts from the promo codes!
For now though and for anyone who just had the same question as I did going into this problem (which is the title of the thread) The intermotors from advanced auto are probably the way to go. But remember to order them in two separate orders to maximize your discounts from the promo codes!
#60
40th anniversary Edition
The power and mileage difference between two brand new coil types is negligible at best, below what dyno variances can detect.
The power and mileage difference between a set of failing coils and any brand new ones is significant: https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tro...-plugs-234383/
The power and mileage difference between a set of failing coils and any brand new ones is significant: https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tro...-plugs-234383/
#62
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What i said is that the difference in quantified mileage and quantified power is negligible and below what can be measured on a dyno. A 2% variance on a dyno can be expected from run to run, and that is 4hp. Unless you can claim that there is a 4hp increase from new OEM/Whatever coils to new BHR coils, I stand by my statement. Even Ray agrees that while there may be a benefit, it isn't enough to measure.
Same with gas mileage. A 5% increase would be...1mpg? That hasn't even been reported that a BHR equipped 8 can get 1 more mpg than OEM equipped coil ones, so the gain must be lower.
I'm not saying that there isn't a gain, but any perceived gain for BHR coils has to take into account that the prior ignition was not performing properly to spec.
I don't disagree that they are the best ignition components possible, but I have yet to see proof that BHR coils have measurable power and measurable mileage gains over brand new OEM ignition. Every gain example I have seen brings the RX-8 up to what is easily reached by stock 8s with new ignition, suggesting that it is simple recovery of what was lost. I have yet to see a BHR ignition install result in numbers that exceed what stock 8s can get.
#63
40th anniversary Edition
I have yet to see a BHR ignition install result in numbers that exceed what stock 8s can get. (quote from RIWWP)
Maybe you have yet to see this, but I have seen it and felt the difference and drive it every day, and I am NOT talking about compared to used coils, but compared to my oem new coils. This is a new member thread and many naysayers here have never even driven the same RX8 with new oem coils, then new BHR coils. Have you done that RIWWP, the same RX8 with new oem coils, then new BHR coils ?
In 4 decades of rotary ownership (spending more than a large six figure amount on mods and maintenance of seven rotaries) I know quantitatively when I am getting better hp and mpg, even a slight increase. I am getting that with the BHR coils and wires. If you choose not to believe that, that's fine. I will continue to enjoy the extra smiles and miles.
BTW RIWWP I look forward to seeing you and your MX5 at NJMP in April where we can continue this discussion in person.
Maybe you have yet to see this, but I have seen it and felt the difference and drive it every day, and I am NOT talking about compared to used coils, but compared to my oem new coils. This is a new member thread and many naysayers here have never even driven the same RX8 with new oem coils, then new BHR coils. Have you done that RIWWP, the same RX8 with new oem coils, then new BHR coils ?
In 4 decades of rotary ownership (spending more than a large six figure amount on mods and maintenance of seven rotaries) I know quantitatively when I am getting better hp and mpg, even a slight increase. I am getting that with the BHR coils and wires. If you choose not to believe that, that's fine. I will continue to enjoy the extra smiles and miles.
BTW RIWWP I look forward to seeing you and your MX5 at NJMP in April where we can continue this discussion in person.
Last edited by gwilliams6; 03-12-2014 at 08:11 AM.
#65
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gwilliams, so far you have given me exactly what most provide: A statement that you obtained a gain. What is the quantitative measurement to back that up? Got a dyno comparison? A record of mileage differences? A dyno will be hard to obtain, but mileage would be easier. Keep in mind that I, and others, could get 24mpg or more on stock ignition. How much can you exceed that with BHR?
I'm open to being wrong, but so far, I have never seen evidence that I am. Only that people with failing ignition replaced it.
Posted From RX8Club.com Android App
I'm open to being wrong, but so far, I have never seen evidence that I am. Only that people with failing ignition replaced it.
Posted From RX8Club.com Android App
#66
gwilliams, so far you have given me exactly what most provide: A statement that you obtained a gain. What is the quantitative measurement to back that up? Got a dyno comparison? A record of mileage differences? A dyno will be hard to obtain, but mileage would be easier. Keep in mind that I, and others, could get 24mpg or more on stock ignition. How much can you exceed that with BHR?
I'm open to being wrong, but so far, I have never seen evidence that I am. Only that people with failing ignition replaced it.
Posted From RX8Club.com Android App
I'm open to being wrong, but so far, I have never seen evidence that I am. Only that people with failing ignition replaced it.
Posted From RX8Club.com Android App
#68
#70
That is my definition of clear. Put another way - there is absolutely no evidence that the $500 coil kit from BHR is going to give you anything other than maintenance-free longevity. To some, that may be worth $500. To me, I'll spend $96 on OEM coils and replace them free under warranty every 30k miles (or 2 years).
#71
40th anniversary Edition
If it makes people feel better if they naysay against the BHR coils, then hey believe what you wish everyone. It is no sweat off my brow if you never buy BHR coils and keep rebuying or replacing oem coils forever.
For me, I have driven with NEW OEM coils (on a properly broken-in Renesis,) and then NEW BHR coils (on the same properly broken-in Renesis) under as similar conditions as possible, and there is a very noticeable difference. The OEM coils do not match the hotter, higher voltage spark delivered by the BHR coils . This contributes to better and more complete combustion. Ask BHR's Charles (though he might not want to alienate any potential future customers). He would honestly tell you he didn't put together his coils to JUST give longevity. He set out to put together coils and wires that give greater performance than stock oem coils whether you remain NA or go FI. And yes the mileage has also improved slightly and NOT compared to worn coils, but compared to new oem coils.
Folks here will never agree on this, that is fine. I will keep using the BHR and take my better performance and mileage to the bank, thank you. For others just enjoy your stock oem coils and be happy. The best to you all.
For me, I have driven with NEW OEM coils (on a properly broken-in Renesis,) and then NEW BHR coils (on the same properly broken-in Renesis) under as similar conditions as possible, and there is a very noticeable difference. The OEM coils do not match the hotter, higher voltage spark delivered by the BHR coils . This contributes to better and more complete combustion. Ask BHR's Charles (though he might not want to alienate any potential future customers). He would honestly tell you he didn't put together his coils to JUST give longevity. He set out to put together coils and wires that give greater performance than stock oem coils whether you remain NA or go FI. And yes the mileage has also improved slightly and NOT compared to worn coils, but compared to new oem coils.
Folks here will never agree on this, that is fine. I will keep using the BHR and take my better performance and mileage to the bank, thank you. For others just enjoy your stock oem coils and be happy. The best to you all.
Last edited by gwilliams6; 03-15-2014 at 08:44 AM.
#72
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We aren't "nay saying" the BHR coils. They are indeed great coils. We are saying that there hasn't been a single owner that has produced quantitative test results proving any point of mileage or power.
Even Ray refuses to make a statement of gain for power or mileage.
If you want to be the first to produce the test results to back it up, plenty of us will be more than happy to accept it. But without test results, we aren't giving the BHR ignition any more credit than BHR is.
Even Ray refuses to make a statement of gain for power or mileage.
If you want to be the first to produce the test results to back it up, plenty of us will be more than happy to accept it. But without test results, we aren't giving the BHR ignition any more credit than BHR is.
#73
40th anniversary Edition
We aren't "nay saying" the BHR coils. They are indeed great coils. We are saying that there hasn't been a single owner that has produced quantitative test results proving any point of mileage or power.
Even Ray refuses to make a statement of gain for power or mileage.
If you want to be the first to produce the test results to back it up, plenty of us will be more than happy to accept it. But without test results, we aren't giving the BHR ignition any more credit than BHR is.
Even Ray refuses to make a statement of gain for power or mileage.
If you want to be the first to produce the test results to back it up, plenty of us will be more than happy to accept it. But without test results, we aren't giving the BHR ignition any more credit than BHR is.
Mazda and many other manufacturers over the years haven't listed actual hp numbers to avoid liability and risk penalties of rules and gov't regulations . It doesn't mean the reality of what hp these engines produced wasn't so.
Last edited by gwilliams6; 03-15-2014 at 05:04 PM.
#75
Boosted Kiwi
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Hey just keeo non believing, thats fine. I know these cars and their performance and I have tried just about every mod and addition since rotaries came out in the early seventies. I know what I see and feel in performance and mileage. End of story for me on this matter.
Don't bring it up again unless you have something real for us ............... please.
BTW I ran stock coils on my 300whp turbo setup for 3 years . I then switched over to the D585s .
Guess what ......... same performance .
Last edited by Brettus; 03-15-2014 at 04:52 PM.