BradTheFad

Found what looks like a really neat and well-preserved 2005 in purple Shinka trim. I really like it and it was very fun to drive, but I am worried about whether this may be a tough car to own in my state.

The current owner had removed the stock exhaust system and replaced it with a straight pipe - but as you may know, that will make it fail CA smog inspection. The state requires functioning cats and requires that they be OEM stock. He will put the original exhaust system back on to get it smogged, but he says you wouldn't want to drive it around like that normally because the burning oil in the rotary engine will foul the cats. But, I also don't want to deal with swapping out the exhaust system every two years for a smog inspection and then undoing it, because that's garbage. I should also mention that the current owner premixes his fuel with 2-stroke, possibly pretty heavily; enough in any case that it smells like a lawnmower. If I understand these engines right, they can run fine without premix, just on the oil they draw in naturally. And that premixing in addition to that is fine with a straight pipe, but the double dose of oil might lead to problems with the stock cats?

Anyway, my question is, if I were to just keep the stock exhaust on it and not premix the fuel, is that an acceptable state of things? In other words, it shouldn't destroy the engine to avoid premix, and if I don't premix, it shouldn't destroy the cats, as long as I keep on top of regular maintenance?

I should mention the car has 86k miles, did not seem to have any telltale signs of oil leaks, white/blue smoke, etc. It did have trouble starting from a cold start, but started fine as soon as we got out the pocket jumper. As I understand it, this does not indicate a problem with the motor, just the battery. The owner says the battery has not been charging fast enough and he wants to do some modification on the alternator to increase the current. (Sounds to me like the battery and/or the alternator may just be old, which would not be a huge deal to me to replace.)

Lastly, I do wonder if this may just be too much car for me, as a single dad who only has so much time to spend on it. I am not afraid to tackle maintenance and some mechanical things on cars, but probably the most involved types of repairs I will do on my own are things like replacing water pumps, valve cover gaskets, things of moderate complexity like that. I am not a hardcore car enthusiast or a hot rodder. I just really like the car and it would be great if I could make this work out - but I worry if I might be getting myself into more than I can handle at the moment.

speed7

Two questions,

1) will this be your only car?
2) if it is down for maintenance.. can you afford to fix it?

the Rx8 runs fine with a cat.. but it is a consumable part. So at some point you will need to change it.. this is for all cars. My suggestion is to read up on the car on the forum.. they are inexpensive cars to get into.. but expensive cars to run and maintain. Tbh for me who’s also in California… the only reason I’m in a rotary again is the Rx8. They don’t sniff the tail pipe anymore.. just check the OBD2 info. As long as you don’t have a check engine light, you’ll pass smog in California.

BradTheFad

It won't be my only car. Probably will only be driven a few thousand miles a year on average. I like to have one car/SUV that's useful, and one car that I have because I like it.

The prospect of a cat replacement is a little worrisome, because of the laws in this stupid state against aftermarket parts. From looking around a bit, it seems like that's a $2k minimum job on an RX8, maybe more. I had to junk my last car (the one this would be replacing), an old Jaguar XJ8, because it developed an oil leak that eventually ruined one of the cats, and I couldn't even get the parts for less than the entire car was worth at that point. The car ran fine, and probably could have been fixed relatively cheaply, but the OBD monitor and the certified-parts law hosed me. I'm not against spending money, but it seems like apart from an engine rebuild, the cats could be the next-most expensive likely issue to deal with on this one.

As long as there are not notorious problems with the cats on an RX8 compared to cars with normal engines, then I am not as concerned. I've been trying to give myself a crash-course on this car, and on rotary engines in general, for the past week since this one popped up, and will keep doing that. Much of the maintenance and potential issues seem a little ... different ... from piston-engines, but not insurmountable. The oil-burning/cat one just raised a red flag for me, since that's exactly how I lost my last car and I could see how that might be a problem!

speed7

Well the cat will cost 2k but should last around 100k miles. And tbh I love this state.. the Rx8 without a catalytic converter is very very potent. I only use a race pipe on the track. For the street I have it on. I’d strongly suggest reading more on the car before pulling the trigger. While I always support others getting an Rx8. Rotaries have always been a love hate relationship for me. They can be a handful in their later years.

speed7

Oh and putting the cars “worth” in comparison to maintenance will not work for this car. You will easily pay more than the cars value in maintenance or upgrades. You will have to remove that thinking while owning this car to be happy.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

If 2k risk is too much, $5k engine replacement risk is probably not going to work for you. Cars aren't an investment, trying to stay under resale value is meaningless. Your maintenance is investment in continuing to drive that car

delhi

You can always get a spare midpipe with an aftermarket cat for emissions testing purposes.

California is on a warpath against ICE vehicles. If I live in state, I'd drive an EV and take up other hobbies.

BradTheFad

It's not that a $2k risk is too much - maintaining cars isn't free. But if it was a $2k certainty that would happen repeatedly, that's something to think about. The reason I ditched the last car was because even if I replaced the cats, they would just get ruined again unless MAJOR work was done to the engine.

My question is really whether this is a known issue that will keep coming up more than once because of the way the car is designed. Like, is it viable to have the stock cats on for normal use - or are they just going to get ruined quickly and then get ruined again quickly if you replace them. Or is a straight pipe or some sort of modified (illegal in this state) exhaust system the only way.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

Yes it's fine to keep the stock cat. Most people do. Mine is 17 y/o and holding just fine even after track years. Cats die because of poor ignition and neglect.

They still lose efficiency over time but the federal 80k warranty requirement is a real thing.

BradTheFad

An EV sounds like a great idea except that California is also on a warpath against electricity. Last time I looked into it, I would have barely saved any money on fuel at all, owing to the fact that electricity prices are triple the national average by government order, with a special penalty rate if you use more than you "should." Maybe that's changed with gas prices the way they are now, but eh. I'd rather drive a car powered by coal than get on board with the morons at the California Air Resources Board.

BradTheFad

Ok, that's exactly the information I was looking for. It sounds like as long as you take the rest of the steps you're supposed to, it is not a design problem that will be an Achilles heel.

Do you have any opinion on premixing, and whether that's more likely to foul the cats? Or is the risk to the engine of NOT doing it higher?

Loki

iTrader: (1)

The appropriate premix oil in the quantities used here shouldn't affect the cat any more than the stock oil injection. AFAIK. I haven't tested these things in a lab, but logically JASO FD oil is made to burn clean.

BradTheFad

I apologize if this is a noob question, but you mean premixing in addition to the stock oil injection, not instead of, or combined with some modification to it, right?

The reading I was doing on this and other forums suggested that some people thought both premixing and the stock oil injection put together could give it a double dose of oil that would be a problem. But if you or others have been doing this, and not experiencing any ill effects from it, that would be relieving to know.

Apparently premixing is a somewhat hotly debated topic among RX owners, but I just don't want to do anything that would be blatantly stupid and guaranteed to ruin a part. Thank you for all the input here, by the way.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

Yep it's debated here too. At the end of the day nobody has a lab and a supply of engines to test this properly. But, my take is 2-stroke premix lubricates parts that injection can't, because of where the nozzles are positioned. That makes it worth adding. It's also very different from engine oil and has clear clean burn requirements to pass cert. Newer SN, SM engine oils also need to pass certain burn products criteria (specifically for cat protection), but not to the same extent as JASO FD.

A lot of what you might read about rotaries was written several oil generations ago, and oil has changed.

In your specific case, or the case or anyone buying an RX8 today, what you do is less important than what the previous 10+ years of owners did. You're buying their mistakes, make sure you're comfortable with their maintenance practices.

speed7

Since it's a series 1, you can add the Sohn adapter to add that added level of comfort btw. But like Loki and said, keep up with the maintenance, especially the ignition system.

BradTheFad

Well, if people have been doing it and it's not been a notorious problem, that's good enough for me.

The current owner I would describe as a car enthusiast who obviously takes good care of it - before that, I don't know.

Price is low enough at ~$6.5k that I think it's worth taking a chance on money-wise. The one other thing that makes me hesitant is whether the RX8 is different enough that you are exclusively your own tech support - in other words, any little thing goes wrong, you are on your own to diagnose and repair it in your own garage.

Like I said up top, I don't mind taking care of the routine stuff. But if it's going to be a situation where some $50 valve wears out and it's inconvenient to get to, a regular shop won't know how to fix it, so it waits until I find time to put it up on jack stands and spend a whole afternoon on it - maybe that is not the right car for me.

Again, apologies for so many questions, but I'm just trying to figure out whether that's really the case, and every single thing is DIY, or I'm worrying unnecessarily just because the engine is different.

speed7

Where do you live? There are rotary shops all around California. I can probably find a few within a hundred miles of you. Just get AAA Roadside and upgrade to the premier membership. Gives you a few super long tows for free each year.

https://www.ace.aaa.com/membership/benefit-chart.html

Plus when you do any sort of registration, no lines. Just smog the car the day prior, then go to AAA to complete the registration. You're in an out usually within 30 minutes and no appointment needed. But don't use them for insurance.

BradTheFad

I'm in San Diego - and from the limited information I can gather, if you want a real rotary shop, you're probably heading up to the LA area.

But I don't know whether you would need a real rotary shop for everything - or whether if it's some run-of-the-mill issue that does not directly involve the engine, any old shop could handle it. Is it rotary shop/DIY or nothing? That's just me not really knowing the degree of difficulty.

Oh yeah, and AAA is great, almost worth it for avoiding the DMV lines alone. But they are about 25% more expensive than the insurance I have now.

speed7

I'm in San Diego.. for things I don't do myself.. or some things I don't have time for I use A&D Autoworks https://aanddautowerks.com, Bob Baker Mazda in Carlsbad (they have a rotary mechanic there), and Rockys Miatomotive Home | Regular and Advanced Miata Maintenance | San Diego, California | Rocky's Miatomotive

For smog, I make sure the CEL is clear for a few days, this is after I put the cat back in for the race car.. maybe a week.. then drive over to University City Service Center, https://g.page/UCServiceCenter?share. They just hook up the car to the OBD2 port, takes about 20 minutes. Then you're on your way for the next 2 years.

Being this is a second car.. I wouldn't worry much about it. For the serious stuff, yeah LA.. but that kind of work you'd be planning for anyways. Not to mention they usually have waiting lists as well.

speed7

You have to remember that the car is basically a fat Miata.. the only thing unique to the car itself is the engine.. the rest of the peripherals... transmission, suspension, brakes.. thats just regular mazda / miata stuff.

BradTheFad

Ok, thanks, this is all very helpful and reassuring! To be honest, when I first saw this car and started researching it, it felt like I'd landed on another planet. As long as there are places that can help with the moderate-level issues that are beyond my amateur abilities, that's all I need.

I kind of suspected that there were a lot of standard-issue parts other than the engine itself, but this car seems to be so popular among enthusiasts that it's easy to get afraid you cant handle it unless you've got your own full auto garage. But I don't want to mod it or race it, I just like the car!

speed7

It’s a good car.. and safe tbh. I recommend still doing your research.. also be sure to have the car looked over before purchasing. I’m a fan of the series 2 myself. As you can see in my signature.

delhi

I've owned my RX8 from day one. Apart from coil issues 3 years in (Mazda fixed it under warranty), the car has been trouble free. It's possibly one of my easiest car to work on. Maintenance is fairly simple. It even runs happily on 87 oct and dino oil.

Alot of folks are lulled into the low entry barrier of beat up abused specimens and complained. My advise is don't cheap out and be patient. Buy the best well cared for model.