AlmostN0Numbers

hey guys. ive been lurking this forum for roughly 3 years since i got my RX8. i did some deep research before buying a local rx8 with ~55k miles on it. i did an appx. compression test (came back good) bought it for 4k, and have loved it ever since.

some light mods ive done:
decat/hollowed out catalytic convertor (was rattiling ~2.5 years ago, no emissions testing in WA > )
ngk plugs coils and wires from prev. owner
some light tuning from mazdaEdit (supposedly making ~250 crank hp)
mazdaspeed coilovers
front strut brace
premixed in gas tank

.

AlmostN0Numbers

I should also state some important things on why I joined now on the rx8 forum as opposed to when I bought my 8 in 2019.


so I've lurked these forums for years, and it's pretty much my go too whenever I face an issue on my 8. I haven't had a bunch of issues, and overall I would call this car reliable compared to the gti from 00, or the 94 integra I had before this. what little issues I have had have come down to battery or electrical issues near exclusively or entirely from what I remember.

here's where things get interesting: I have joined this forum as I'm currently facing a crisis with my rx8. I'm gonna give the full background so you guys can fully understand the issue.

roughly 5 days ago or so I needed an oil change. I do them 3-4 times a year and most of my rx8s driving is around my small college town (less then 1000 miles a month) with occasional trips to my family driving from Bellingham to Seattle or Spokane. I used to do oil changed myself when I had a garage but now I just pay jiffy lube to do it, since I know the guys who work there and that they know the quirks one might have about an oil change on a rotary. so I do my oil change, everything seems normal, but I'm running into a battery issue again (a chronic issue I've had is with the battery terminals the prev. owner fucked with, I finally stopped having issues 6 months ago when I got new terminals wired up correctly) since the car has slowly been cranking slower when starting and it appears it due to lack of electricity when pulling. I check and see the terminals seem corroded as hell, and I ask the guys at jiffy lube to clean the terminals, and they oblige. outside of that, the only noticeable thing that occured is one of the guys there said he "accidently spilled .... all over the ..., but I cleaned it up, it might smoke a lil bit while warm" (I didn't hear him clearly).

I pay for my oil change and go to fill up on gas. at the time I was planning to go to Spokane to see my sick grandfather the next day. while there I accidently closed my trunk on my phone and broke it (I promise this is important) something I hadn't ever done was break my phone, and I panicked and contacted my mom. the plan was go to Verizon and get a new phone before they close so I can leave the next day. as I'm headed to the nearest Verizon store from my home in a state on panic and Shame I turn on my car and it cranks super fast (still warm, crank speed prob due to the cleaned terminals) but it's idiling at 2.5k to 3k. I noticed how strange that is but continue to the store in a hurry, but when I try to pull out the throttle has no effect on the car. now I'm really panicking that both my phone and car is fucked, so I turn it off and try turning it back on. the battery acts like it was disconnected mid crank, so I pop the hood and go for what has always been the problem, the battery terminals. I slightly scrubbed it with a cloth, tried starting it up, and for whatever reason now it acts completely fine. throttle is responsive as ever.

fast forward the next day, I'm headed 370 miles from Bellingham to Spokane. everything is going as normal, but about 70 miles in I'm noticing the car is shaking way more then normal while driving, usually after I shift. I thought the clutch was going bad and to just be gentle, but randomly at points while around Seattle it's shaking more then normally while driving, and the power seems inconsistent. once I'm over the Snoqualmie pass the problem seems to go away.

I get to Spokane to a friend's house, and I'm there for 4 or so hours. I get to my car and start it up, and something is immediately off: it barely wants to turn over, the idle is extremely rough, it sounds like it's running very rich (smells like it too), and it's power is at best half of what it is normally. it doesn't want to rev or turn over, but I barely get it too get going. it stalls if I ever let the revs drop bellow 1k rpm so I drive it very carefully about a mile away to my parents place, with my hazards on since I can't stop or it stalls, and very slowly since it barely even wants to rev or make enough. power to go. while driving whenever the revs go above 2k rpm the cel flashes (misfire I believe). I have an OBD2 temp gauge that doubles as an OBD2 sensor, and instead of the normal cel code for the catalytic converter problem (as I've hollowed out the cat years ago) I'm getting BOTH codes p2017 and p2018.

I have very limited tools so my brother offers to fix it if I can get it down to his mechanic school. I try the day before to see if I can see the problem so I try starting it, it barely turns over like before, but now it stalls out after a min. it's very late so I tell myself I'll try to get it going tomorrow. I try to see if I can do what happened days earlier to temporarily solve the problem and get it 5 miles to my brothers school, that being resetting the battery (manually this time). I do that but it doesn't turn over now. I think it may be flooded but I don't have any tools and I'm home alone and by the time it's deflooded via cranking with no fule pump fuse, the battery charge is incredibly low.

I'm at a loss to the issue. I was thinking it's maybe bad coil(s) since they were needing to be replaced soon and with the smell of fule while driving and the fact it seemed to be running rich that was my running theory, but the fact I got no misfire codes beyond a flashing cel and that my symptoms don't seem to line up with a bad coil I'm unsure.

please help me out here. I'm stuck at my parents place and need my 8 working asap.

thanks for the read

AlmostN0Numbers

ill update this thread in the event someone runs into this same issue i did.

im still stuck outside of my home with my parents. did some further research and my current theory is that its (ranked by likeliness to be the problem) 1) ignition coil, wires, or spark plugs 2) a dirty sensor somewhere caused by the previously mentioned guy at jiffy lube 3) a broken barometer sensor 4) the idle control valve 5) throttle control sensor

got it towed to a mazda dealer. my parents arent super wealthy, but im fortunate enough that they helped me out given i really only have faced issues with the battery and blown tires that were not my fault; to put it bluntly its cost 250-300$ just getting it there and checked in.

AlmostN0Numbers

here are some more pictures and media ive gotten of my 8 over the years

CaymanRotary

You could try taking the UIM off and spraying seafoam directly in there to help free the APV motor. Unfortunately, this can be a pretty serious problem to solve if the seafoam doesn't help. I'm at a loss as to how an oil change would have caused this issue.

CaymanRotary

You could try taking the UIM off and spraying seafoam directly in there to help free the APV motor. Unfortunately, this can be a pretty serious problem to solve if the seafoam doesn't help. If taking the UIM off isn't practical, a regular seafoam treatment may still work.

AlmostN0Numbers

i am hedging my bets that the issue is the ignition coils. Ive put 30k on the car and something like low compression or a needed engine rebuild can form in one of two ways: 1) slowly over time due to lack of lubrication or heat (two things i keep an eye on via a temp gauge and premixing it when its not on the highway) 2) some kind of "event" that would occur while driving (like a loud bang) that would cause total engine failure. I havent encountered any of these and all of the symptoms of low compression (slow starts, regular misfiring, smoke, ect) would usually come on slowly in the event of a case where #1 is happening, yet i havent experienced any of these issues at all.

so like i said, these coils are likely far overdue to be replaced. ive never replaced them in 3 years and ~30k miles of driving, and in the absolute best case scenario the previous owner replaced them 5k miles or so before he sold it. these coils also appear to be OEM, so what is probably far more likely is, since he was a baby boomer who owned rx7s but didnt go online to research or document stuff about RX8s, is he hit 30k miles or greater (probably 35-45k miles) then they went out, he took it to a dealership, replaced them, then continued owning it (doing the math my cars mileage is 86k and that would put me at 51k to 41k miles on the current coils that are OEM and not BHR which last for 30k approx.).

if this car has a blown engine then im super, duper extra f*****. ive done a TON of preventative measures and being honest the videos and information ive seen lends credence that its a toss up as far as what the issue could be. I got off the phone with the dealership and they wanted to do a compression test for 400$, and i told them to just replace the coils, wires and plugs and get back to me. The guy said on the phone that i "seem to know what your talking about, which is rare from the RX8 owners i talk too" which is a good sign since he seemed dead set that it was a blown seal at first, then i gave him all the info I did and he seemed way less confident that the seals are gone.

please give me your thoughts, prayers and energy so I can manifest my cars engine to mantain compression. last i tested it I got back readings of high 7.8ish for PSI at the lowest and 9.5 at the highest

AlmostN0Numbers

just got off the phone with the mazda dealership again. 700$ for ignition coils, plugs and wires. unbelievable considering the cost for those parts its at most 150$. his thoughts were that it was likely a compression failure issue based solely off the fact that most rx8s he works on end up having that as the issue, but he said ignition failure is entirely possible. he thinks if it were compression failure that there would have been a "point of failure" which would have been the cars throttle being unresponsive before i left for Spokane. i had a nervous breakdown since if he is right ill be dropping a HUGE amount of money for a car that is dead in the water, or it could be a throttle positioning error code p2107/p2018. im super anxious about whatever result awaits me.

AlmostN0Numbers

if ANYONE has any suggestions or advice to give I would love to hear it. CaymanRotary did give solid advice but codes 2107 and 2108 are
P2107 - Throttle actuator control module processor error
P2108 Throttle Actuator Control Module Performance
and I believe they arent tied into the ECU/PCM or APV. those problems do somewhat line up with the issues im facing but not entirely (just like the coils and low compression not looking to be the entire issue)
If its not the coils me and a buddy who has a fuckton of tools are gonna take a look and see if we can try fixing the code p2107 AND p2108 in the mazda parking lot.

CaymanRotary

Those codes p2017/2018 relate to the APV. Changing out coils is good practice but may not be your issue so don't fully expect this to fix it. Coils from Mazda are expensive but it's the only ones I ever use. Spark plugs aren't cheap either so $700 doesn't sound unreasonable considering.

I would just seafoam the thing and see if it works. The APV motor could just be clogged and the seafoam could free it. At $10 for the can its worth a shot.


Edit: just realized you missed input the code to p2107 lol. My advice is irrelevant now up to this point.

AlmostN0Numbers

my apologies i listed codes 2017 and 2018, they are codes 2107 and 2108 :/

with that, I have done a BUNCH of digging through forums since its the only thing i CAN do. i couldnt find a single result about an RX8 having a 2107 or 2108 code anywhere. Not a youtube video, forum post here or otherwise, nothing. What little I could find where some generic p2017 and p2018 codes that vaguely list similar symptoms to what im facing.

the plan is IF its not the coils/plugs/wires then I do a compression test myself (not looking for accurate results but rather if one or more sides fails to give me a result then i know its a blown seal) using one of those normal engine compression testers you can rent from orileys for free if you dont break it. If we get 3 similar numbers/readings then i have at minimum 2 friends who are into cars as a hobby, up to nearly a dozen (s/o to being a part of my local ssbm scene, they all like me bc im beat most of them) maybe more who are gonna see what we can do to find this mysterious throttle actuator control module

CaymanRotary

I'd still try the Seafoam anyways haha. Never know, it's fixed random errors for me before.

AlmostN0Numbers

the car doesnt even turn over now. last time i tried it did then it stalled out 2m in. knew it might have flooded things so i deflooded the way that has worked before and i cant tell if it worked or not since it doesnt wanna turn over. my little brother (in school for being a mechanic) said it doesnt sound like its sparking during the cranks and i agree.

AlmostN0Numbers

update: good news? I found a TSB that *MAY* apply to my car.

here is that TSB:
Subject: Bulletin No: 01-010/04
MIL ILLUMINATION WITH DTC P2107, P2108 OR P2109
Last Issued: 2/26/2004

APPLICABLE MODEL(S) / VINS

2004 RX-8

• A/T: After VIN JM1FE17N*40132580
• M/T: After VIN JM1FE173*40132647
DESCRIPTION

Some vehicles may experience MIL illumination with DTC P2107, P2108 or P2109 stored in memory after jump
starting the engine due to a discharged (dead) battery.
-P2107: Throttle actuator control module processor error (Sub CPU/RAM/ROM inoperative)
.


-P2108: Throttle actuator control module performance error (Sub - Main CPU communication error)
.
-P2109: TP sensor minimum stop range/performance problem.


DTCs setting into PCM memory may be caused by improper PCM calibration. Customers having this concern
should have their vehicles repaired using the following repair procedure.


REPAIR PROCEDURE

1.
Using WDS B29.2 or later software, reprogram the PCM to the latest calibration (refer to “Calibration Information” table) by following the “Module Reprogramming” procedure.
NOTE:

•
Always update the WDS PTU first, then install the needed calibration file that WDS shows during PCM reprogramming. Go to “WDS Calibration” on ESI and download the “update” file. If the
PTU is not updated to the latest WDS calibration level, the calibration file will not install into the
PTU.
•
It is not necessary to remove any fuses or relays during PCM reprogramming when the WDS
screen prompts you to do so. You may accidentally stop power to one of the PCM terminals and
cause the PCM to be blanked, or you may receive error messages during the WDS reprogramming procedure.
•
WDS shows the calibration part numbers after programming the PCM.
•
Please be aware that PCM calibration part numbers and file names listed in any Service Bulletin
may change due to future releases of WDS software, and additional revisions made to those
calibrations for service related concerns.
•
When reprogramming a PCM, WDS will always display the “latest” calibration P/N available for
that vehicle. If any calibration has been revised/updated to contain new information for a new
service concern/issue, it will also contain all previously released calibrations.
•
When performing this procedure, if the WDS PTU is not docked and connected to 115V-120V,
we recommend that a battery charger be installed on the vehicle battery and turned ON to a
maximum charge of no more than 20 AMPS to keep the vehicle battery up to capacity. If you
exceed 20 AMPS, it will damage the WDS PTU.

Bulletin No: 01-010/04
© 2004 Mazda Motor of America, Inc.
Last Issued: 2/26/2004
2.
After performing the PCM reprogramming procedure, make sure to perform “Self-Test”, ALLCMDTCs and
erase any stored DTCs that appear after the reprogramming.
•
If any DTCs should remain after performing DTC erase, diagnose the DTCs according to the appropriate
Troubleshooting section of the Workshop Manual.
NOTE:
It is normal for some U**** DTCs and possibly C1119 to be stored after reprogramming modules
with WDS. After the DTCs are erased, no DTCs should be present.

3.
Place an “Authorized Modification” label (P/N 9999-95-AMDC-97) with the new calibration information near
the Emission Control Information Label located on the hood or in the engine compartment.
4.
Verify repair.
NOTE:
After reprogramming a PCM, it is necessary to road test the vehicle to relearn KAM (Keep Alive
Memory) strategy and verify no MIL illumination or DTC’s are present.

CALIBRATION INFORMATION

Transmission New PCM Calibration Part
Number
File Name
A/T N3H4-18-881L SW-N3H4EL000
M/T N3H6-18-881L SW-N3H6EL000

WARRANTY INFORMATION
NOTE:
•
This warranty information applies only to verified customer complaints on vehicles eligible for warranty repair. Refer to the SRT microfiche for warranty term information.
•
Additional diagnostic time cannot be claimed for this repair.
Warranty Type A
Symptom Code 6X
Damage Code 9W
Part Number Main Cause ****-18-881
Quantity 0
Operation Number / Labor Hours: XX648XRX / 0.3 Hrs. "

•
This warranty information applies only to verified customer complaints on vehicles eligible for warranty repair. Refer to the SRT microfiche for warranty term information.
•
Additional diagnostic time cannot be claimed for this repair.
Warranty Type A
Symptom Code 6X
Damage Code 9W
Part Number Main Cause ****-18-881
Quantity 0
Operation Number / Labor Hours: XX648XRX / 0.3 Hrs.

now just like anything ive encountered with this issue, MOST of the stuff here thats important lines up: I have a 2004 RX8 with BOTH codes p2107 AND p2108 (which is specified in the warranty, since you have either both 2107 and 2108 OR JUST 2109) and the one issue ive faced with this car is battery issues and it constantly disconnecting itself. This would be perfect but my VIN is JUST before the cutoff at JM1FE173X40122131 and isnt after JM1FE173*40132647.

There also isnt an official version of this I could fine uploaded by mazda, but there IS a version which states AFTER JM1FE173*40112647. though its far less common.

no idea if this means anything at all.

AlmostN0Numbers

well this saga is anticlimactically over. i was right, the coils were indeed the issue and now its running better then ever. codes p2017/8 nowhere to be found and the car feels like it could be making double the power it was a month ago when it was running fine (did a butt dyno and 0-60 "test" and it was ~6.5s last time i tested and its 4.7s now)

**** every single blockhead who told me "le apex seal blow :p" and caused me to have a panic attack over the past 2 days

BTW one of the mazda techs said "we had an abundance of inventory, so I gave you some special sauce thats not on the bill". I thought he was referring to premix but i didnt smell any, any idea what that could be? fuel injectors? tune? intake?

CaymanRotary

He probably seafoamed it!

AlmostN0Numbers

I mean... possibly. I think you may be a bit biased given your advice to me. he got some pictures of the inside of the rotary housing when the spark plugs were taken off by putting a small camera through the holes. said the engine has very little carbon buildup from what is expected out of an 86k mile engine.

they also gave me that call that "it turned over im stunned" (said in a very sad tone) within 2m of its work being done, and I was there within 10m, so it's pretty unlikely they could've seasoned it that quickly.

Meat Head

Those responses are typical for 2 Face Book and the clown show idiots who troll that site. You need a filter for all the stupid if that’s the source of your panic attack. Keep reading all the material available here. Use this site when issues arise.

AlmostN0Numbers

I didn't post anywhere outside of /o/ and here. the people who told me this were all but 1 mechanic

_JB_

6-ish second 0-60 MPH times are normal for stock manual 6-port RX8s.

AlmostN0Numbers

I should add this is not a literal 0-60 test. there's a very empty, wide, long and straight road right after a stop sign on the way to my house where I "test". it's also a rolling start done with my phone stopwatch... so this isn't very scientific is what I'm saying. I'd say since my compression is still great and the crank horsepower calculator on mazdaedit had it at 252-245, it's probably making 220 at the ABSOLUTE MOST to the wheels, likely 210 or 200 on a bad day. it was probably making as much as a 4port would for the last couple of months: I'm guessing 140 to the wheels? maybe 160?

all that really matters is I'm beating my buddies wrx wagon in a straight line, let alone a track

CaymanRotary

The RX-8 is actually a pretty quick car for what it is. Light weight and good power after 4k RPM it can beat a lot of cars on the road even today. I'll always have a soft spot for these machines. Glad yours is fixed!

AlmostN0Numbers

I never updated this post with what the problem was, the coils failed and every mechanic told me the car was totaled. Dealership charged an unbelievable amount but I had no options, car ran great.

mazdaverx7

iTrader: (6)

Having failing or bad coils can cause a plethora of issues. You were smart to not jump on the bad apex seals bandwagon. If that were where you were leaning, a proper compression test with a rotary compression tester would have eased your mind I'm sure.

How is the car running and driving these days?

AlmostN0Numbers

still no engine issues from what i can tell. still suffering from repeat issues with battery and termianls and sensors. replaced the clutch last january and also never noticed the dealership (which charged well over 900$) didnt change the plugs or wires so I did that last year as well.

recently I will get a very occasional and questionable flashing cel, indicating a missfire but no code while hard accelerating. it could be one of the plugs or wires, since a fix i did about 2 mo ago was to pre-emptively change out the coils the dealership put on as those were the oldest components of the ignition system, but that didnt seem to change things. It technichally could be the engine losing compression, but I am very doubtful of that given this would be my only symptom of compression loss.