New owner needing help (engine problems)
07-13-2015, 12:34 PM
#1
Registered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
New owner needing help (engine problems)
Just bought an 04 Automatic last week. Was flooded when I bought it. De-flooded it, let it warm up, and drove it to the gas station with no issues. Turned the car off, filled up, and when I tried to restart it acted like it was flooded again. Well, had the car towed to Mazda on Thursday at 9. Friday at2 they called and said they got it running but they experienced compression in the radiator (they noticed it had a lack of power sitting in the shop and smelled burnt coolant). The tech went to take the radiator cap off and it supposedly shot off. They informed me that it needs a new engine and gave me an absurd price. My question is this. Are there other reason for pressure in the radiator? When it flooded at the gas station I was able to pop the cap without the cap flying off, and it drove fine. I do know its low on coolat but its been sitting for a few months. Any ideas?
07-13-2015, 12:43 PM
#2
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 16,684
Likes: 0
Received 252 Likes
on
110 Posts
I'm suspicious that what you are referring to as "flooded" may not actually have been flooded.
But it sounds entirely like the dealership is correct, you have low compression, probably from a prior owner overheating it and causing a coolant seal to fail, which is the only reason for an over-pressurization of the coolant system, and is the only reason for a burnt coolant smell.
Yet another purchase that could have been avoided with a proper pre-purchase compression test
This is why we advocate it heavily.
Read more in the New Owner's thread here: https://www.rx8club.com/new-member-f...t-here-202454/
But it sounds entirely like the dealership is correct, you have low compression, probably from a prior owner overheating it and causing a coolant seal to fail, which is the only reason for an over-pressurization of the coolant system, and is the only reason for a burnt coolant smell.
Yet another purchase that could have been avoided with a proper pre-purchase compression test
This is why we advocate it heavily.Read more in the New Owner's thread here: https://www.rx8club.com/new-member-f...t-here-202454/
07-13-2015, 12:45 PM
#3
FULLY SEMI AUTOMATIC
iTrader: (9)
combustion gases in the coolant is a water seal (think head gasket) and the motor will need a rebuild or replaced.
07-13-2015, 12:51 PM
#4
Registered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm suspicious that what you are referring to as "flooded" may not actually have been flooded.
But it sounds entirely like the dealership is correct, you have low compression, probably from a prior owner overheating it and causing a coolant seal to fail, which is the only reason for an over-pressurization of the coolant system, and is the only reason for a burnt coolant smell.
Yet another purchase that could have been avoided with a proper pre-purchase compression test This is why we advocate it heavily.
Read more in the New Owner's thread here: https://www.rx8club.com/new-member-f...t-here-202454/
But it sounds entirely like the dealership is correct, you have low compression, probably from a prior owner overheating it and causing a coolant seal to fail, which is the only reason for an over-pressurization of the coolant system, and is the only reason for a burnt coolant smell.
Yet another purchase that could have been avoided with a proper pre-purchase compression test
This is why we advocate it heavily.Read more in the New Owner's thread here: https://www.rx8club.com/new-member-f...t-here-202454/
07-13-2015, 01:03 PM
#5
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 16,684
Likes: 0
Received 252 Likes
on
110 Posts
At least you paid a dead-engine price 
That helps the sting.
Blue Devil Head Gasket sealer works (imo, that's debateable, but not getting into that) by having the temperature/pressure differential at the point of the leak 'activate' the sealer, causing it to weld a seal. This works if the point of failure is stationary, like a head gasket. However, in a rotary, the "head gasket" is the coolant seal, and it's moving continually. Welding anything that is moving is impossible at best, disasterous as worse. Welding your rotors doesn't sound too helpful to have a running engine.
Only real option ever found is to pull the engine and repair or replace. Part of the "downside" to having only 8 major components to the engine, removing even one of them means disassembling all of them.
That helps the sting.Blue Devil Head Gasket sealer works (imo, that's debateable, but not getting into that) by having the temperature/pressure differential at the point of the leak 'activate' the sealer, causing it to weld a seal. This works if the point of failure is stationary, like a head gasket. However, in a rotary, the "head gasket" is the coolant seal, and it's moving continually. Welding anything that is moving is impossible at best, disasterous as worse. Welding your rotors doesn't sound too helpful to have a running engine.
Only real option ever found is to pull the engine and repair or replace. Part of the "downside" to having only 8 major components to the engine, removing even one of them means disassembling all of them.
07-13-2015, 01:06 PM
#6
Registered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Should I disassemble and rebuild it or just replace it? The engine supposedly only has 37,000 miles on it. Car has 110,000 miles and according to service history the engine was replaced at 73,000. I can rebuild a regular Chevy v8 and the 13B looks MUCH easier to work on than that.
07-13-2015, 01:11 PM
#8
Registered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
07-13-2015, 01:12 PM
#9
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 16,684
Likes: 0
Received 252 Likes
on
110 Posts
That's part of the traits of rotary engines. They can be dead, trashed, etc... and the engine still runs seemingly without issues to someone unfamiliar with them.
Lots of stories of people blowing engines at the race track, then driving multiples of hours home on them anyway.
Lots of stories of people blowing engines at the race track, then driving multiples of hours home on them anyway.
07-13-2015, 01:13 PM
#10
Registered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That's part of the traits of rotary engines. They can be dead, trashed, etc... and the engine still runs seemingly without issues to someone unfamiliar with them.
Lots of stories of people blowing engines at the race track, then driving multiples of hours home on them anyway.
Lots of stories of people blowing engines at the race track, then driving multiples of hours home on them anyway.
07-13-2015, 01:17 PM
#11
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 16,684
Likes: 0
Received 252 Likes
on
110 Posts
Eh... if I was in your shoes, I wouldn't bother. I'd confirm a failed coolant seal by testing any number of ways (combustion gas in the coolant, coolant in the oil, and/or coolant on the spark plugs after sitting over night and a quick crank to spread any liquid around. If you confirm that, a compression test doesn't really matter, you will have the same diagnosis, same solution needed.
07-13-2015, 01:24 PM
#12
Registered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What if I don't find evidence any of those ways? The first one will be semi-difficult as now I can't even get the car to start. When I drained the oil after I bought it (first thing I did was oil and plugs) it was a light brown color. Smelled more like gas than anything. I personally did not smell burnt coolant when it ran. Wondering if low coolant would cause excess pressure in the radiator. Cause its low enough that there's none in the jug........ And I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier: I should first check by filling the jug and trying to start it for a few days. If it's a bad seal won't I notice the level decrease?
07-13-2015, 01:29 PM
#13
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 16,684
Likes: 0
Received 252 Likes
on
110 Posts
If you fill the coolant and let it sit a while, you might notice a decrease in coolant level if it's draining into the engine. However, this isn't a sure thing, since the failure could be pinprick in size, which would still be enough to let pressure through when the engine is running.
Yes though, there are a variety of ways to test to be sure. Just keep in mind that any one test failing confirms the failure, while some tests passing doesn't mean anything at all.
Yes though, there are a variety of ways to test to be sure. Just keep in mind that any one test failing confirms the failure, while some tests passing doesn't mean anything at all.
07-13-2015, 01:45 PM
#15
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 16,684
Likes: 0
Received 252 Likes
on
110 Posts
Eh, that's a hard one. The 4-port you have now is the most expensive block you can have and also the worst performing and least reliable... a bad bargain all around).
Swapping to a 6-port 6spd with the ECU, harness, and accessories to match would make the most amount of sense, though at a higher cost. You would effectively have to gut a donor car.
Just the 6-port still has some problems, but might be easier.
Swapping to a 6-port 6spd with the ECU, harness, and accessories to match would make the most amount of sense, though at a higher cost. You would effectively have to gut a donor car.
Just the 6-port still has some problems, but might be easier.
07-13-2015, 01:54 PM
#17
07-13-2015, 02:28 PM
#20
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 16,684
Likes: 0
Received 252 Likes
on
110 Posts
Well, I'd never buy a 4-port to begin with, it's cheaper and easier to start with a 6-port equipped car, even one with a blown engine. But, given your circumstance, what I'd do is do the full 6port 6spd swap, if I could find a junkyard 8 to pull everything I needed from, and that includes every electronics module, since changing the ECU means either towing to a dealer to have them all re-coded to recognize the new ECU, or swapping in every module that already recognizes that ECU.
Or maybe I'd just get the 4-port replaced by itself, then sell the car off. Or just sell the car for what I bought it for (the price is fair) to let someone else deal with and take the money for a deadl engine 6-port to deal with as far simpler. Or a downpayment to a good engine'ed RX-8 for sooner driving with less hassle.
Or maybe I'd just get the 4-port replaced by itself, then sell the car off. Or just sell the car for what I bought it for (the price is fair) to let someone else deal with and take the money for a deadl engine 6-port to deal with as far simpler. Or a downpayment to a good engine'ed RX-8 for sooner driving with less hassle.
07-14-2015, 10:43 PM
#21
Registered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, I'd never buy a 4-port to begin with, it's cheaper and easier to start with a 6-port equipped car, even one with a blown engine. But, given your circumstance, what I'd do is do the full 6port 6spd swap, if I could find a junkyard 8 to pull everything I needed from, and that includes every electronics module, since changing the ECU means either towing to a dealer to have them all re-coded to recognize the new ECU, or swapping in every module that already recognizes that ECU.
Or maybe I'd just get the 4-port replaced by itself, then sell the car off. Or just sell the car for what I bought it for (the price is fair) to let someone else deal with and take the money for a deadl engine 6-port to deal with as far simpler. Or a downpayment to a good engine'ed RX-8 for sooner driving with less hassle.
Or maybe I'd just get the 4-port replaced by itself, then sell the car off. Or just sell the car for what I bought it for (the price is fair) to let someone else deal with and take the money for a deadl engine 6-port to deal with as far simpler. Or a downpayment to a good engine'ed RX-8 for sooner driving with less hassle.
Oh, and they gave me a "discount" on the labor. They claimed it was because I work at the nearby Nissan Dealer. That's what made it somewhat shady.
Last edited by ShadowGryphon; 07-14-2015 at 10:48 PM.
08-09-2015, 04:44 PM
#22
Registered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
High coolant temps
So, I bought an 04 auto about a month ago. Took it to the dealer because I couldn't get it to start. They told me it needed an engine because it was burning coolant and pushing compression through the radiator or something (which I didn't believe because I was able to start it once and idle for a good 45 minutes, and I smelled no burning coolant). Fast forward to last week. On a whim I ordered a ls2 ignition kit and the car now starts (takes a few minutes but its also got bad grounds and I'm using really cheap ebay coils). I installed the ignition kit on Wednesday. I have been able to start the car every day (using a jump box or my other car as the alternator isn't charging quick enough). Yesterday I was finally able to get the car out of my driveway as I put insurance on it. Driving speed limit on city streets it stayed about 220-230 (read with Torque on my tablet). When I got on the freeway it seemed to cool down faster, and got as low as 212. Now, the ambient temp has been about 100 the last few days. I noticed that when I slowed down or stopped the temp started to climb, but as soon as I started rolling it would drop. When I parked it and shut it down the temp rose to about 240 for a few seconds. What could be causing this?
P.S. I also noticed that the plastic tray under the engine is hanging down, could that have something to do with it?
P.S. I also noticed that the plastic tray under the engine is hanging down, could that have something to do with it?
08-09-2015, 04:56 PM
#23
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
I think the dealer told you the truth. But if you don't believe them then get the cooling system pressure tested (probably what they did). No it has nothing to do with the tray, but it could be many things, there is no point in guessing. And why did you buy this car without a compression test? I assume you did not read the new and potential buyers thread here first.
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 08-09-2015 at 04:58 PM.
08-09-2015, 04:57 PM
#24
Welcome to the club.
First things first. If the dealer says you need a new engine, ask for a compression test. You should have six numbers and an rpm. If compression is good, you could have a damaged coolant seal. Best to watch the coolant level, and check for white smoke.
As for the tray hanging down, that is bad. You need the plastic tray to force air through the radiator. You can buy an aftermarket aluminum one, cheaper than a plastic one through Mazda.
You saw that the temperatures are okay on the highway, because air was moving across the radiator. The standing still temps are a different story. The fans should come on at 190. If they are not, you could have some overheating problems. I would check both fans first, make sure they come on when they should.
First things first. If the dealer says you need a new engine, ask for a compression test. You should have six numbers and an rpm. If compression is good, you could have a damaged coolant seal. Best to watch the coolant level, and check for white smoke.
As for the tray hanging down, that is bad. You need the plastic tray to force air through the radiator. You can buy an aftermarket aluminum one, cheaper than a plastic one through Mazda.
You saw that the temperatures are okay on the highway, because air was moving across the radiator. The standing still temps are a different story. The fans should come on at 190. If they are not, you could have some overheating problems. I would check both fans first, make sure they come on when they should.
08-09-2015, 05:01 PM
#25
Registered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually. What they did was supposedly got it running and when the tech supposedly smelled burning coolant he took the radiator cap off and it supposedly shot off. The reason I am not inclined to believe they even got it started is because they reduced the deflooding charge (what I took it in believing it needed) from $180 to $48. In the 5 days I have had it running I have not experienced any issues related to pressure in the cooling systems, just heat. I have also noticed that the fans kit on fairly late in my opinion, will have to check at what temp and get back to you, but I know they should come on sooner.