If you won't be able to do the work yourself still, I HIGHLY recommend "training" your mechanic about the quirks of this car. Or even find a local owner that CAN do the work, or at least, let you use / rent space to do it.

Time after time again we have stories about people that have taken their 8 to a shop (dealer or non-dealer) for an issue, and they spend hundreds or thousands without getting anywhere because they are ignoring a ridiculously simple issue.

 

I plan on learning as much as I can from the DIY forums. The mechanic we have is really good, he used to service my dads old rx-7 is I think he will be able to do any major repairs. For brakes/plugs coils I think in time I can tackle it with my dad. I was planning on buying a mustang, but my dad got me hooked on a rx-8

 

Hey,now that I'm a happy rx8 owner for about 7 months I just started to notice something.Initially the car started just perfect but these days it starts alright but it takes a little longer to start as if its having trouble starting.Please tell me what is wrong my car is an 07 with about 20 k miles on it.

 

...


Today I felt a bit of aching in my leg. Please tell me what's wrong!











Not much to go on is it?

 

Okay i know I didn't tell you much,but what do you want to know so that the problem can be identified

 

You're hijacking RIWWP thread about new owners.

You have a troubleshooting question.

You should look (search) or post your problem in that section corresponding to the same version of your car.
Which is the Series I Troubleshooting section:
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-trouble-shooting-95/

An 07 with only 20k miles on it having a hard time starting is interesting.
In a google search type this without the quotes "site:rx8club.com hard start"

 

Thanks

 

This is sooo true!! And sooo helpful!!! Thanks soo much for posting this RIWWP!

 

and some fund for the possibility of a new engine...

On the other side, most of these apply to other cars as well. RX8 maintenance is just more of 'needed' than 'wanted'.

and a good thing is...no timing belt :P

We were trying to fit a mid size luggage in the rx8 today and failed. The space is just enough, but it is the opening that keeps the luggage from going in. (trunk/backseat). We ended up taking my friend's civic...lol

 

Added the following items:

Warm it up before hard driving!
This is true for ANY car out there. Not just rotaries. Let the car warm up before you start mashing the throttle or revving the snot out of it. Keep light on the throttle and under 4k rpm until the water temp needle is pointing straight up (or however slight off of straight is normal for your car). Even then, technically the oil temps aren't fully up yet, but they are getting there. Mazda actually put a lower rev limit when the water temp is under a certain point to help reinforce this. The 2004-2008 RX-8s have a rev limit of ~5,500 rpm until the water temp reaches 100F (I think, might be off). The 2009+ RX-8s have a 2 stage rev cut, at 5,000rpm and 7,000rpm I believe, each at a different water temp point. This doesn't really mean that it's 100% safe just because you have cleared the rev limit, so give it some time, take it easy, and let it warm up. No need to let it idle warm (though some do), light throttle driving is just fine.

How do I shut off an RX-8?
This somewhat ridiculous question keeps popping up recently. Other than the obvious "turn the key counter clockwise and remove", there is literally nothing special that you have to do. You will find people that insist that I am wrong in making this statement, but no, it is just that they are taking one symptom and extrapolating preventative measures even further off base than they already were. For example, you will find people that swear by reving the engine to 4,000rpm in neutral and cutting the key out there, with the revs up. They are doing this under the assumption that the faster spinning rotors will help sweep excess fuel out of the rotor housing, to prevent a flood. The problem with this idea is already explained in the Flooding section above. If your engine is already warm, there is no excess fuel being dumped in! (Except perhaps the fuel needed to rev to 4,000rpm). Shutting it off at 4,000rpm is no different in terms of fuel than shutting it off at 750rpm. If your engine is currently cold, then this could only POSSIBLY have an impact if your ignition or starter or battery is failing, in which case 'yes', it might help prevent a flood. But a flood is a symptom of another issue anyway, and only happens on START, not on SHUTDOWN.


Questions we CAN answer:
Most issues that the RX-8 faces are easily answered when you post detailed, descriptive, and accurate explanations of what symptoms you are having with your RX-8. Many of our issues share common symptoms with at least one other issue. Several of the really common issues share MOST of their symptoms with another problem. So when you post: "power loss?" We can't really tell you what is going on. We can only throw the book of possible issues at you for you to figure out.

The amount of assistance you receive is DIRECTLY associated to how much detail you provide!

So what do you need to share?

A) Break each issue you are seeing out by itself. For each of these issues, detail what RPMs it occurs in, and what RPMs it doesn't. Detail how much throttle you are giving when it occurs.
B) Detail what the ambient temperatures are that you are seeing, what the gauges are doing.
C) If you have a CEL, GIVE US THE CODE! (most auto-parts stores will pull the code for free for you. Otherwise, you can buy a code reader for LESS than the dealer's diagnostic price, giving you a discount on that one, and free code pulling for the rest of the device's life, across every car you own) (Hint, search with Google and site:rx8club.com <CEL> before posting. You will probably find your answer.)
D) Detail any possible modifications or repairs that have been made within the last 3,000 miles, even if it seems like it's not related.
E) Detail the age and mileage of the car, and what maintenance history it has been on. NOT just "it's gotten regular maintenance" because there are wear items that are not part of "regular maintenance" for dealers and most shops.
F) Since many issues are ignition related, and you are going to get asked, give us the mileage and age of ignition coils, wires, and plugs.
G) Detail out when it DOESN'T happen. This is just as critical as when it does!

Another thing to keep in mind is that unless you are being a complete jackass, and unless the person responding to you is ignorant about the issues, our answers are going to be pretty accurate, if not dead on. Even if you don't like the option. We have no stake in your finances, no stake in making money off of it. We DON'T like to see unhealthy or busted 8s. So if you choose to ignore our recommendations, do so at your own peril, and don't come whining to us that you shoveled money at the problem that was completely unneeded.

 

+ 1
Super Like !!!!!!!

 

Hey guys...new to the forums. Have been reading every thread I can over the last few days, thinking I was going to join the club shortly.

Found the perfect 05 shinka - 47k miles, immaculate interior/exterior, a meticulous owner who spoke of not a single engine problem. Took it for a test drive and it was smooth as silk - maybe a little too much idling vibration on the shifter.

Gave him a deposit and had him bring it to the Mazda dealership for a comp test (thanks to this forum), turns out it failed. Although he hasn't given me the numbers yet, supposedly the dealership is walking some line between putting in a reman vs deferring until it starts acting up.

Have tried google searching for the last hour, and apologies if this is something easy to find...maybe I'm just not searching the correct terms or don't know where to look. Are the REMAN engines pretty reliable now? Or should I move on and wait for another one to show up?

Thanks for your help, looking to officially join the club in the near future.

 

Generally, yes, they are. Bad apples are still possible though. There is no reason to turn down a an 8 because it's getting a new engine. Just the opposite.

 

Thanks for the reply! From what I've seen, you're a bit of a godfather figure around these parts. I had seen in another thread that engine replacements after a certain year (2006 or 2008, I can't remember) were considered pretty reliable, but just couldn't corroborate it anywhere else.

ps I read War and Peace in a matter of 2 days at the age of 19, couldn't put that book down for the life of me. One of the best ever.

 

My 07 GT has as many miles as your 05 and that vibration your feeling could be a bad motor mount. Mine did the same thing when sitting at a stop light and i never thought anything of it until I took it to the dealership for an oil change and got the inspection with it. Turned out it was a bad motor mount but it was fixed under warranty. It would have cost about 700 without the warranty.

 

RIWWP... actuallyz u can add under the 'warm up before driving' part... to depress the clutch (for manual) before starting up the car... Less load... Not surez, if u feel it is relevant but just felt it may be useful tip..

 

?

I can add it, but that is an inherent part of starting a manual. The clutch interlock switch prevents the relay from sending power to the starter if the clutch is not depressed.

 

Hey guys, could really use some advice... The 8 i put a deposit on had comp numbers of 667 and 671 at 250rpm. It's a 2005 Shinka with 47k miles...still drives great with no noticeable lag in starting or drop in power. As such Mazda won't put in a reman until it starts to crash. Th fidelity extra warranty guy quoted me at 2500 for five years.

We had settled on a price of 11250 with the owner, how much of a drop in price would be reasonable? Obviously being patient and finding another 8 seems like the smarter thing to do here...

 

I'd say around $1,500 to $2,000. The engine is below "perfect", but it's not hovering on death's door either. Should easily have another 20k+ in it, probably 30-40k, baring any other issues. Mine lasted ~40k from the point that I got just a hair higher than those numbers till it dipped under spec.

 

Thanks for the advice. Ignorane could have been such bliss lol. Will see how flexible he is I guess.

 

Also you are talking Shinka which was a limited run Series I RX-8 with 'extra' features..

From memory, piano black trim on and down console, exclusive seat-handbrake lever-gear **** leather trim and colours, sports package suspension with Bilstein shocks, exclusive paint colours, AKE and urethane foam filled engine cross member to name a few...

Sunroof..I think

 

Yessir! Trim officially is Cherry Black. 11250 would have been a steal...

 

That's the one I have (manual), with 61,000 miles and NO engine trouble so far!
(knock wood) What a GREAT car. And no trouble so far except for routine maintenance....but there was that time my daughter flooded it and I had to have it hauled in for new plugs, etc

Nan

 

Added to post #9

So if I get one, what can I do to help make my engine last?
For this, you have to understand that each different failure method has to be addressed individually. Some solutions help more than one aspect, but if you ignore one, it's probably going to be the one to bite you.
First Note as you read these: There are some "solutions" presented which conflict with causes listed. Example High Load High RPM helps carbon, but hurts side seal and cooling. It's the excess that gets you into trouble. Don't stay high RPM all of the time for carbon, because you are dramatically increasing the chance of heat related failures, but don't avoid high RPM either because it is increasing the chance of carbon related failure. Dip your feet in both pools...
Second Note: These are fairly basic concepts. They can get far far far more involved. Pursuing any of these should be preceded by research.

Failure causes from the list in post 2:
- Excessive carbon buildup accelerates seal wear, causing compression loss
- Excessive carbon buildup unseats the apex seals, causing compression loss
It is nearly impossible to prevent all carbon buildup in our engines. But some things can help make an impact:
A) High RPM at full throttle (commonly known as "redline a day") produces lots of heat and energy along with high air/exhaust velocities, which can help is breaking down the carbon and blowing it out of the engine. An engine that only sees low RPM and low load (as many automatics do) has been shown to have significantly more carbon buildup than one that is rev'ed hard often. This will NOT prevent all carbon.
B) Premix. Premix is largely a benefit for apex seal wear, however it has been shown on engine teardowns that the carbon in an engine that was premixed is 'softer' than carbon in an engine that wasn't, and seems to lend a slight benefit in this area to decarbing
C) Seafoam / Decarb. (This is more of a possibility than a definitely. You will find members that will completely disagree with me on this) Seafoam / decarb treatments are intended to help strip carbon from the engine. There are several ways of doing this treatment, and it's likely that not all of them are effective, and some are only slightly effective, etc... I can not discount how it can indeed remove carbon from parts under the right circumstances outside of an engine. The debate is around if it actually is INSIDE the engine, since it's largely difficult to get a heavily carboned item in an environment that you can clearly see, and treat it with seafoam under combustion with extreme heat. 9k in particular is an advocate against seafoaming as "pointless", though I can't so quickly discard it's possibilities. I believe that the lack of effectiveness is more due to HOW it's applied. Example, you can take a pressurized aerosol can of seafoam and watch it strip carbon from an intake manifold on your work table. So it CAN work under the right circumstances, and I don't believe that the chilled pressurized spray is the only possible option.
D) Steam cleaning. This is a bit more hesitant to mention. If you ever plan on doing a steam cleaning, RESEARCH the hell out of how to do it first. Please! It's possible to destroy your engine if you do it wrong. But, the concept is basically similar to seafoam, only the atomizing water is what is cleaning off the carbon rather than the chemical composites.
E) Water/Meth injection. W/M injection is usually targeted almost entirely for forced induction as a safety margin by increasing the effective octane rating of the fuel. However it does have side benefits of producing remarkably clean engine internals. If you want to learn more, read up on this opening post on RX7Club: (http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=806104). Slightly different application and goal that the writer was going after, but still valuable nuggets in there for our engine's long term health. However, note that W/M is not legal everywhere, many racing organizations prohibit it, it usually requires some sort of tuning, and kits are usually set up to deliver under boost, which an N/A engine won't have. I don't know of anyone running W/M on an naturally aspirated Renesis for the purposes of cleaning only. I am very tempted to pursue this myself. W/M injection solves a few of the steam and seafoam treatment weaknesses, namely the inability to deliver either with the engine under full load while the car sits in your driveway. Injection also gets the intake valving that none of the other treatments do.

- Excessive heat buildup warps the housings to one degree or another, preventing the apex seals from sealing, causing compression loss
This can be caused from a few different sources. Probably most common is a coolant system overheating, followed by a cat clogging. Most housing warp failures end up leaking coolant and/or oil directly into the housing because the seals and rings can no longer seal properly. The greater the warp, the faster the oil and coolant leak. (Separate from the oil injection. Oil injection rates shouldn't ever produce oil smoke from the tailpipe, which oil control ring failure usually does). This can be a sudden failure from any single cooling system component. A suddenly stuck thermostat, a clogged radiator, too low coolant without realizing it, too much high RPM, high ambient temps in stop and go traffic, etc...
A) Remove the cat, install a midpipe. This isn't kosher with the EPA, environmentalists, federal government, most state governments, emissions inspection stations, your spouse's nose, or your rear bumper paint. However, aside from the power increase it will give you, removing the cat removes the possibility that it will clog on your car, which can cause significant localized heat within your cat, header, and back up into your engine. I believe that my engine failed due to housing warp from a failed cat.
B) Upgrade your cooling system. Do not rely on your temperature needle. By the time it starts to move, the engine is already hot enough to be able to start warping. Damage is almost guaranteed. You have to understand what each component of your coolant system does, don't just go upgrading *****-nilly. The radiator is what transfers the heat out of the coolant. An upgraded radiator means a faster heat dump from the coolant it sees (actual upgrade, many aftermarket radiators are NOT upgrades). However, the thermostat is what controls what coolant gets to the radiator, and if the coolant temp drops to a certain point, it won't even send the coolant to the radiator to dump heat from. So if you have a 200 degree thermostat, and your coolant temps sit at 200 degrees, upgrading your radiator will do nothing to drop this! It will only increase the rate of temperature drop when you are ABOVE your thermostat temp. Upgrading your thermostat to a lower temperature is what can allow your radiator to bring temps down. If you are getting an engine rebuild, there are improvements you can have done to your coolant passages to aid their heat transfer from the block to the coolant. There is also the water pump, which pushes the coolant through the system. It's speed is based on RPM speed, and the OEM water pump can have quite a bit of trouble moving coolant at high RPM. Upgrading the water pump can help reduce heat-spotting in the engine
C) Lower the trigger temp for the radiator fans. The OEM trigger temp is almost 'too high' already. There are a few kits you can buy, as well as it is built into Mazdamaniac's AccessPORT base tune. So your fan runs more, but your system stays cooler.
D) Flush radiator fluid periodically. Already part of regular maintenance, but more critical for our engines than piston engines.


- Excessive exhaust temperatures overheat the side seal springs
This is a failure that most of us don't have to really worry about. It's the number one failure method in race engines, and I suspect most turbo'ed engine failures that don't involve a sudden lean spike detonation. Lots of exhaust heat builds up exhaust port heat, leading to the side seal spring deforming until it gets to the point that it pushes the side seal out of place, the seal catches the exhaust port and shatters. This is usually only a problem in cars putting down ~220whp or more, AND spends most of it's life at high RPM and high load (like a race engine). It is a scale, it's likely more about how much "increments of energy" the spring takes, and a lower power level can get away with more high load than a higher power, etc...
A) The only 'known' solution for this is using the side seal springs from the FD engine. I have nothing to prove this, and you can find race teams that swear there is nothing to do about it and other race teams that swear they no longer have the problem. If you are getting a rebuild and want to reduce this risk, there is likely no harm in going with the FD side seal springs, and it very well may help.
B) Increasing the efficiency of the exhaust system will also reduce exhaust port temps. A more efficient exhaust dumps heat more rapidly, reducing buildup.

- Fuel pump failure or high lateral G left turns with low fuel causes fuel starvation under load, creating a lean spike that causes detonation and shatters seals
This is an all-too-frequent failure seen. If you expect frequent full throttle hard left curves, it is recommended to not let the tank get under 1/4 remaining. (like if you have such a curve in your regular driving and could hit it at all sorts of fuel levels). The actual point of failure is somewhat lower than that, and a sudden starvation doesn't MEAN your engine will fail, but it's certainly possible. The OEM fuel pumps can start failing around 60,000 miles (for 2004-2008, the 2009-2012 should be better), though can certainly last far longer. Most fuel pump failures are due to overheating of the pump, and will suddenly stop pumping, which suddenly shuts off the engine inexplicably. Letting the car sit for a while and then restarting should get it started just fine as if nothing happened. If this happens to you, stay low load, low RPM and get it where you can park it for a fuel pump replacement. Going full throttle with a fuel pump failing is dangerous to your engine. I personally know someone who lost their engine to their fuel pump failure, but didn't know it. The dealer didn't know it either, put in a new engine, and while on the shakedown after installation, the fuel pump gave out again and destroyed that engine too.

- Cat failure (even more common than engine failure) causes localized heat and pressure buildup that overstresses the seals and breaks down oil viscosity, leading to various issues
I've covered the issues with cat failure, so this is largely a redundant point. If you can remove it, do it.

- Clogged oil injection lines prevent oil from being injected, leading to excessive apex seal wear and side seal overheating, leading to compression loss and/or catastrophic failure (depending on which fails first)
This is one of the 'silent killers'. The only real symptom of clogged oil injection lines is when oil consumption drops below the 1qt / 1,500miles rate. You can run seafoam through them using engine vacuum as a good cleaning method. There is no set recommendation on how often to do it, but the longer you go between oil changes, the more likely you are to need it more frequently. No shop or dealer will have any idea on how to do this, or even what you are talking about, so just do it yourself for free.

- Subpar reman engine quality, starting with low compression that accelerates any other issue (reman quality has improved over the years, but bad apples are still reported)
There isn't anything you can do about getting a reman engine that has poor seal clearances or overly worn parts. So, cross your fingers.

 

Hello all,

Just wanted to thank the community for this site in general, and this thread specifically. The information contained within has been invaluable.

I've wanted an RX since I first drove a 7 in Gran Turismo, nearly 20 years ago. Even a video game representation of the vehicle was enough to spark an emotional attachment. I remember the first time I saw the commercials for the 8. I swore that one day, I'd have one.

Back on November 1st, I made good on that promise. The research I did here allowed me to buy with utmost confidence. It was clear that I knew far more about the car than the dealership did. They had it priced as a base model, even though it was a GT. I was able to use the car's mileage and worry over engine trouble to further reduce the price, even though I knew the car had less than 2000 miles on its reman. All told, I got my '04 for 4k under book value.

Without the information here, I would have paid more. Even worse, I may not have purchased the car at all. Every time I've had a question, I've been able to find the answer easily here.

So thank you, once again. I look forward to many years of driving what has rapidly become my favorite self-owned car of all time.