Oil?
12-05-2019, 07:04 PM
#27
FULLY SEMI AUTOMATIC
iTrader: (9)
another 710 juice thread back from the dead? best to use a 50/50 mix of ky liquid and **** ease
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CaymanRotary (12-06-2019)
12-06-2019, 04:27 PM
#28
Registered
Did that research include a lab, test stands and multiple oil strategies for different regions? I'm gonna go with no. I'm gonna go with "google: rx8 oil". Close?
As soon as someone uses 'synthetic' to describe an undefined set of oils, they're behind on understanding oil, engines and how the two interact. It's a marketing term. Oil groups and API ratings are what matters, and those have progressed SIGNIFICANTLY since the RX8 was introduced and most of today's myths were written.
I don't have a horse in the fight about what you should run, I've been running LiquiMoly Synthoil 10w40 with 7-8000km change intervals for 6 years now with excellent used oil analyses each time and feel comfortable recommending it based on that. My current fill is near 9,000km and I plan to change it before Xmas. If you prefer to follow different dogma, by all means. Just don't spread the dogma.
As soon as someone uses 'synthetic' to describe an undefined set of oils, they're behind on understanding oil, engines and how the two interact. It's a marketing term. Oil groups and API ratings are what matters, and those have progressed SIGNIFICANTLY since the RX8 was introduced and most of today's myths were written.
I don't have a horse in the fight about what you should run, I've been running LiquiMoly Synthoil 10w40 with 7-8000km change intervals for 6 years now with excellent used oil analyses each time and feel comfortable recommending it based on that. My current fill is near 9,000km and I plan to change it before Xmas. If you prefer to follow different dogma, by all means. Just don't spread the dogma.
12-08-2019, 10:40 AM
#30
You gonna eat that?
iTrader: (1)
12-09-2019, 03:50 PM
#31
Smoking turbo yay
This the same Mazda that recommends 5W-20 in the RX8 for emissions reasons that helped destroy most of their engines? I did do research, there is no good reason to use such a low viscosity oil in the engine especially if it's over 50k miles. The only exception would be winter weather but would still run 5W-30 minimum. The engine bearings and seals require thicker oil to be properly protected.
Of course, while viscosity is important, it isn't as important as regular oil changes which is why synthetic is a complete waste of money unless running a sohn adapter so you can go longer between oil changes. This is why I run 10W40 Castrol GTX in all my RX8s and every single one whether I still own it or not is still on the road being useful.
Of course, while viscosity is important, it isn't as important as regular oil changes which is why synthetic is a complete waste of money unless running a sohn adapter so you can go longer between oil changes. This is why I run 10W40 Castrol GTX in all my RX8s and every single one whether I still own it or not is still on the road being useful.
And technically, you want thinner oil at start-up since thicker oil takes longer to be pumped up, hence why people use 0W40 versus 10W40.
Like NAP said there is no real scientific evidence to be used. For our purposes, scientific means having two engines set up in a controlled lab environment, with the same computer and equipment running the engine to make sure they experience the same difference in loads, with the same temperature, humidity, fuel, etc. with the only variable being oil viscosity. That's why even UOA needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
And when half of population doesn't even know how to check oil level... Add that to the low amount of oil injected in the early 8s, there are just too many variables for a concrete conclusion here.
12-10-2019, 07:51 AM
#33
Water Foul
This the same Mazda that recommends 5W-20 in the RX8 for emissions reasons that helped destroy most of their engines? I did do research, there is no good reason to use such a low viscosity oil in the engine especially if it's over 50k miles. The only exception would be winter weather but would still run 5W-30 minimum. The engine bearings and seals require thicker oil to be properly protected.
Of course, while viscosity is important, it isn't as important as regular oil changes which is why synthetic is a complete waste of money unless running a sohn adapter so you can go longer between oil changes. This is why I run 10W40 Castrol GTX in all my RX8s and every single one whether I still own it or not is still on the road being useful.
Of course, while viscosity is important, it isn't as important as regular oil changes which is why synthetic is a complete waste of money unless running a sohn adapter so you can go longer between oil changes. This is why I run 10W40 Castrol GTX in all my RX8s and every single one whether I still own it or not is still on the road being useful.
Are we changing the oil frequently to be using clean oil, because its viscosity is shearing down, or both? If it is due to shear, well, "synthetic" is much more resistant to shear than conventional, so are we sure about that?
12-10-2019, 08:16 AM
#34
Registered
I live in tropical weather and 5W20 is going to be too thin to provide adequate protection for this car and I base this off of other rotary experts who have claimed increased bearing wear on these engines due to thinner oil especially in warm climates.
synthetic oil can be used but will still require 3000 mile oil change intervals. The main issue for me is the increased cost of synthetic oil for very few benefits. Ideally, if you use synthetic you can lengthen oil change intervals which makes it roughly the same cost as conventional. In a rotary this doesnt work because you will still have to change the oil out every 3k.
I dont claim to be an expert or had the time and money to perform experiments and tear engines down. I learn from others and from my own experience. All 4 RX8s I've owned or previously owned all run 10W40 Castrol GTX and all 4 have healthy engines. So, why risk running thinner oil when I know thicker oil is better for this car? And why spend more money on synthetic when conventional oil works just fine?
12-10-2019, 08:31 PM
#35
Water Foul
It's because you are unable to ever do a full oil change in this car. If you jack up on the driver side you can get 5 quarts out but there will always be 2 to 3 quarts left in the oil coolers each time you change your oil. Also, because rotaries break oil down faster than normal engines.
I live in tropical weather and 5W20 is going to be too thin to provide adequate protection for this car and I base this off of other rotary experts who have claimed increased bearing wear on these engines due to thinner oil especially in warm climates.
synthetic oil can be used but will still require 3000 mile oil change intervals. The main issue for me is the increased cost of synthetic oil for very few benefits. Ideally, if you use synthetic you can lengthen oil change intervals which makes it roughly the same cost as conventional. In a rotary this doesnt work because you will still have to change the oil out every 3k.
I dont claim to be an expert or had the time and money to perform experiments and tear engines down. I learn from others and from my own experience. All 4 RX8s I've owned or previously owned all run 10W40 Castrol GTX and all 4 have healthy engines. So, why risk running thinner oil when I know thicker oil is better for this car? And why spend more money on synthetic when conventional oil works just fine?
I live in tropical weather and 5W20 is going to be too thin to provide adequate protection for this car and I base this off of other rotary experts who have claimed increased bearing wear on these engines due to thinner oil especially in warm climates.
synthetic oil can be used but will still require 3000 mile oil change intervals. The main issue for me is the increased cost of synthetic oil for very few benefits. Ideally, if you use synthetic you can lengthen oil change intervals which makes it roughly the same cost as conventional. In a rotary this doesnt work because you will still have to change the oil out every 3k.
I dont claim to be an expert or had the time and money to perform experiments and tear engines down. I learn from others and from my own experience. All 4 RX8s I've owned or previously owned all run 10W40 Castrol GTX and all 4 have healthy engines. So, why risk running thinner oil when I know thicker oil is better for this car? And why spend more money on synthetic when conventional oil works just fine?
12-11-2019, 02:39 PM
#36
REW Club
I don’t daily my rx8. I like a little insurance so i run Royal Purple, but i hear KY sensations is good also. Noted i also live in Southern California so it doesn’t get too cold.
The lowest id go on a rotary is a 30 weight personally.. but as you see the debate that will never die is oil.
most import thing about oil is that you should change it in regular intervals and add oil as it burns it like any other car. Amazon basics all the way up to $10 a quart stuff.As long as it’s motor oil you should be ok.
i still think this thread was a troll though
The lowest id go on a rotary is a 30 weight personally.. but as you see the debate that will never die is oil.
most import thing about oil is that you should change it in regular intervals and add oil as it burns it like any other car. Amazon basics all the way up to $10 a quart stuff.As long as it’s motor oil you should be ok.
i still think this thread was a troll though
Last edited by 40th8Jake; 12-11-2019 at 02:46 PM.
12-11-2019, 02:46 PM
#37
Registered
I don’t daily my rx8. I like a little insurance so i run Royal Purple, but i hear KY sensations is good also. Noted i also live in Southern California so it doesn’t get too cold.
The lowest id go on a rotary is a 30 weight personally.. but as you see the debate that will never die is oil.
most import thing about oil is that you should change it in regular intervals and add oil as it burns it like any other car. Amazon basics all the way up to $10 a quart stuff.As long as it’s motor oil you should be ok.
i still think this thread was a troll though
The lowest id go on a rotary is a 30 weight personally.. but as you see the debate that will never die is oil.
most import thing about oil is that you should change it in regular intervals and add oil as it burns it like any other car. Amazon basics all the way up to $10 a quart stuff.As long as it’s motor oil you should be ok.
i still think this thread was a troll though
12-12-2019, 11:19 AM
#38
Smoking turbo yay
In hotter climate I suppose XW-30 makes more sense. My climate was more mild so I never worried about it much.
The problem I see with synthetic is that there are a lot of kind of oils that can be considered synthetic. Pennzoil has a synthetic oil that is based on natural gas liquidation, while some other synthetic oils share similar bas stock as conventional oil. Because of this, it's a bit unpredictable to see how they will react as they get burnt in the combustion chambers. Conventional oils, on the other hand, are very similar to each other other than the additive packages, so the results are more predictable.
Either way, I am not gonna worry about it now since I don't have the 8 anymore and I know my Accord is definitely not as fussy on oils. My advice is that do UOAs to find out what works for you, since everyone's use case is different enough there will not be a universal agreement.
Oh, and for people accusing Mazda of running thinner oil for EPA emissions... My buddy's Mazda 6 2.5T requires 5W-30(2.5 requires 0W-20 but that's the standard nowadays). You'd think they will want to use 0W-20 on the 2.5T reduces the emissions, but it looks like they did consider other factors over it.
The problem I see with synthetic is that there are a lot of kind of oils that can be considered synthetic. Pennzoil has a synthetic oil that is based on natural gas liquidation, while some other synthetic oils share similar bas stock as conventional oil. Because of this, it's a bit unpredictable to see how they will react as they get burnt in the combustion chambers. Conventional oils, on the other hand, are very similar to each other other than the additive packages, so the results are more predictable.
Either way, I am not gonna worry about it now since I don't have the 8 anymore and I know my Accord is definitely not as fussy on oils. My advice is that do UOAs to find out what works for you, since everyone's use case is different enough there will not be a universal agreement.
Oh, and for people accusing Mazda of running thinner oil for EPA emissions... My buddy's Mazda 6 2.5T requires 5W-30(2.5 requires 0W-20 but that's the standard nowadays). You'd think they will want to use 0W-20 on the 2.5T reduces the emissions, but it looks like they did consider other factors over it.
12-12-2019, 12:30 PM
#39
77 cylinders, 4 rotors...
The 5w-20 recommendation came from FoMoCo's influence ($$$$$), I believe, which was specified across the entire corporate fleet of Ford and Mazda cars and gas trucks, at that time. Ford has since changed that spec to thicker oil on many US performance models, and also some trucks. Take that how you may. I find it completely predictable. Like 0w16. There will be a debate on that sometime too. Long term, I will bet it will be a problem. Not in all cases obviously, but enough for careful owners to notice, and choose something different for their cars, if they plan on keeping them for a while beyond the warranty period. I know they used it in Japan for years, etc. The US owner is a different animal than anywhere else in the world. We all know this. Our climate probably has more variance, too, which is a factor.
Emissions regs and CAFE work at cross purposes to the owner who wants his car to last as long as possible.
I don't want to get into the oil thing over and over, but its so hard to resist!
Emissions regs and CAFE work at cross purposes to the owner who wants his car to last as long as possible.
I don't want to get into the oil thing over and over, but its so hard to resist!
12-12-2019, 12:58 PM
#40
REW Club
In hotter climate I suppose XW-30 makes more sense. My climate was more mild so I never worried about it much.
The problem I see with synthetic is that there are a lot of kind of oils that can be considered synthetic. Pennzoil has a synthetic oil that is based on natural gas liquidation, while some other synthetic oils share similar bas stock as conventional oil. Because of this, it's a bit unpredictable to see how they will react as they get burnt in the combustion chambers. Conventional oils, on the other hand, are very similar to each other other than the additive packages, so the results are more predictable.
Either way, I am not gonna worry about it now since I don't have the 8 anymore and I know my Accord is definitely not as fussy on oils. My advice is that do UOAs to find out what works for you, since everyone's use case is different enough there will not be a universal agreement.
Oh, and for people accusing Mazda of running thinner oil for EPA emissions... My buddy's Mazda 6 2.5T requires 5W-30(2.5 requires 0W-20 but that's the standard nowadays). You'd think they will want to use 0W-20 on the 2.5T reduces the emissions, but it looks like they did consider other factors over it.
The problem I see with synthetic is that there are a lot of kind of oils that can be considered synthetic. Pennzoil has a synthetic oil that is based on natural gas liquidation, while some other synthetic oils share similar bas stock as conventional oil. Because of this, it's a bit unpredictable to see how they will react as they get burnt in the combustion chambers. Conventional oils, on the other hand, are very similar to each other other than the additive packages, so the results are more predictable.
Either way, I am not gonna worry about it now since I don't have the 8 anymore and I know my Accord is definitely not as fussy on oils. My advice is that do UOAs to find out what works for you, since everyone's use case is different enough there will not be a universal agreement.
Oh, and for people accusing Mazda of running thinner oil for EPA emissions... My buddy's Mazda 6 2.5T requires 5W-30(2.5 requires 0W-20 but that's the standard nowadays). You'd think they will want to use 0W-20 on the 2.5T reduces the emissions, but it looks like they did consider other factors over it.
Have plans to get another rotary in the future?
Yeah i put cheapest 5w-30 in my older camry.
if you do plan to get another rotary keep us updated. I like living vicariously through those threads.
12-12-2019, 02:14 PM
#41
I heard sometimes the oil injectors for the OMP have issues with older thicker oil. Might be something to take into consideration if you don't know the status of your OMP injectors. To clean the OMP injectors, take them out, soak them in seafoam over night and blow them out with an air compressor. If you have an OMP oil adapter kit run a lil bit of sea foam through the lines and let it sit over night, thats if you don't want to remove them. Clogged OMP injectors = a lot of engine wear if you keep driving without a condom.
12-12-2019, 06:30 PM
#42
Smoking turbo yay
The 5w-20 recommendation came from FoMoCo's influence ($$$$$), I believe, which was specified across the entire corporate fleet of Ford and Mazda cars and gas trucks, at that time. Ford has since changed that spec to thicker oil on many US performance models, and also some trucks. Take that how you may. I find it completely predictable. Like 0w16. There will be a debate on that sometime too. Long term, I will bet it will be a problem. Not in all cases obviously, but enough for careful owners to notice, and choose something different for their cars, if they plan on keeping them for a while beyond the warranty period. I know they used it in Japan for years, etc. The US owner is a different animal than anywhere else in the world. We all know this. Our climate probably has more variance, too, which is a factor.
Emissions regs and CAFE work at cross purposes to the owner who wants his car to last as long as possible.
I don't want to get into the oil thing over and over, but its so hard to resist!
Emissions regs and CAFE work at cross purposes to the owner who wants his car to last as long as possible.
I don't want to get into the oil thing over and over, but its so hard to resist!
Besides, Toyota is the one that's adopting 0W-16, so I would think they probably rigorously tested it before going ahead with it. They make some of the most boring cars, but you gotta hand the reliability crown to them.
One more factor is the way engines are produced and assembled. Rotaries are all hand assembled, while grocery getter engines come off automated production lines. This means A. there will be a bigger difference between two RX-8 engines than there will be between two Camry engines and B. the gaps and crevices between parts in a rotary engine are likely larger, which means thicker oil can still flow between them versus modern piston engines with lower clearance tolerances.
And putting thicker oil than recommended in your grocery getter is actually a bad idea. At least RX-8 actually is designed to take different weight oils as there is an oil weight recommendation chart depending on your climate, but I have seen threads on the Accord forum I go to where there are engine failures that may be linked to using too thick of an oil(0W-40 versus 0W-20).
Don't think a thicker oil is automatically better. Use a UOA to find out if you value your car.
I mean if Mazda actually makes another rotary sports car in the future then I would definitely sign up for that, otherwise I might try an FD in the future.
12-12-2019, 07:02 PM
#43
REW Club
Here is the thing, cars using 0W-16 tend to be grocery getters. People don't drive them like they drive an RX-8(or sports cars in general). With the kind of driving conditions they are subject to, I wouldn't be worried.
Besides, Toyota is the one that's adopting 0W-16, so I would think they probably rigorously tested it before going ahead with it. They make some of the most boring cars, but you gotta hand the reliability crown to them.
One more factor is the way engines are produced and assembled. Rotaries are all hand assembled, while grocery getter engines come off automated production lines. This means A. there will be a bigger difference between two RX-8 engines than there will be between two Camry engines and B. the gaps and crevices between parts in a rotary engine are likely larger, which means thicker oil can still flow between them versus modern piston engines with lower clearance tolerances.
And putting thicker oil than recommended in your grocery getter is actually a bad idea. At least RX-8 actually is designed to take different weight oils as there is an oil weight recommendation chart depending on your climate, but I have seen threads on the Accord forum I go to where there are engine failures that may be linked to using too thick of an oil(0W-40 versus 0W-20).
Don't think a thicker oil is automatically better. Use a UOA to find out if you value your car.
Kinda sorta had to since I have to relocate for an opportunity I can't turn down, and I wanted to try something different when I move back. Something completely opposite of an NA rotary: no revs with lots of torque, like an LS powered car(Corvette or Camaro). I like switching things around to experience it all, and I do the same for smartphones(jumped across 4 big brands over many years).
I mean if Mazda actually makes another rotary sports car in the future then I would definitely sign up for that, otherwise I might try an FD in the future.
Besides, Toyota is the one that's adopting 0W-16, so I would think they probably rigorously tested it before going ahead with it. They make some of the most boring cars, but you gotta hand the reliability crown to them.
One more factor is the way engines are produced and assembled. Rotaries are all hand assembled, while grocery getter engines come off automated production lines. This means A. there will be a bigger difference between two RX-8 engines than there will be between two Camry engines and B. the gaps and crevices between parts in a rotary engine are likely larger, which means thicker oil can still flow between them versus modern piston engines with lower clearance tolerances.
And putting thicker oil than recommended in your grocery getter is actually a bad idea. At least RX-8 actually is designed to take different weight oils as there is an oil weight recommendation chart depending on your climate, but I have seen threads on the Accord forum I go to where there are engine failures that may be linked to using too thick of an oil(0W-40 versus 0W-20).
Don't think a thicker oil is automatically better. Use a UOA to find out if you value your car.
Kinda sorta had to since I have to relocate for an opportunity I can't turn down, and I wanted to try something different when I move back. Something completely opposite of an NA rotary: no revs with lots of torque, like an LS powered car(Corvette or Camaro). I like switching things around to experience it all, and I do the same for smartphones(jumped across 4 big brands over many years).
I mean if Mazda actually makes another rotary sports car in the future then I would definitely sign up for that, otherwise I might try an FD in the future.
you could always LS swap a broken rx8. You would probably save a little money, find a ls1 from junkyard and tranny. I still see clean c5s going for 16k-18k.
I love my boring car. Predictable is good most times.
Good luck on your new opportunity man!
12-13-2019, 10:01 AM
#44
You gonna eat that?
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12-13-2019, 12:05 PM
#45
Smoking turbo yay
Fair enoguh man. Got to roll with what life has to offer.
you could always LS swap a broken rx8. You would probably save a little money, find a ls1 from junkyard and tranny. I still see clean c5s going for 16k-18k.
I love my boring car. Predictable is good most times.
Good luck on your new opportunity man!
you could always LS swap a broken rx8. You would probably save a little money, find a ls1 from junkyard and tranny. I still see clean c5s going for 16k-18k.
I love my boring car. Predictable is good most times.
Good luck on your new opportunity man!
I like my Accord because I don't have to freak out every time I scrape or bump into a shopping cart. Also not having to fill up a full tank every week with premium is a bit of a relief(I now only need half a tank of regular every two weeks, around 35 L or 9.2 Gal), although I also don't have to drive my car as often since my company provides free shuttles for commuting. But at the same time, I do miss shifting at 9k and the rotary scream...
And thanks! So far I do like the work. It's very cold now(-30C or -20F outside) but my work is mostly office based, I have a great mentor and boss, I am learning stuff and it pays pretty well so no complaints here.
There are way worse threads... But given this is an oil thread, you know how it ends.
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