P0336 and P0506 help please
06-16-2022, 12:43 AM
#1
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P0336 and P0506 help please
Hello everyone,
I am getting very frustrated with my RX-8 and need the community’s help.
I have a 2005 4-port automatic, a few weeks ago the coolant hose right underneath the throttle leaked onto my ignition coils and spark plugs. I believed this leak caused my spark plugs to go out and lead to misfiring.
I decided to go ahead with an LS ignition coil upgrade, one by BennettBuilt. I have the new coils grounded to one of the bolts that hold the ignition coil bracket in.
Once I have everything plugged in and bolted down, to my knowledge, I tried turning on my car. At first it would turn over then stall, but a few tries latter it would not turn over. And my OBD2 scanner showed theses errors in order:
P0336- Crankshaft Position Sensor A Circuit Range / Performance
P0506- Idle Air Control System RPM Lower Than Expected
The only thing different before/after the misfiring is the ignition coil upgrade. But I’m not sure how that could be causing these codes? Should I be grounding the new coil wires to the battery negative?
I do have an AEM MazdaSpeed cold air intake.
If more information or pictures are needed please let me know and I’ll provide.
Thank you in advance!!
I am getting very frustrated with my RX-8 and need the community’s help.
I have a 2005 4-port automatic, a few weeks ago the coolant hose right underneath the throttle leaked onto my ignition coils and spark plugs. I believed this leak caused my spark plugs to go out and lead to misfiring.
I decided to go ahead with an LS ignition coil upgrade, one by BennettBuilt. I have the new coils grounded to one of the bolts that hold the ignition coil bracket in.
Once I have everything plugged in and bolted down, to my knowledge, I tried turning on my car. At first it would turn over then stall, but a few tries latter it would not turn over. And my OBD2 scanner showed theses errors in order:
P0336- Crankshaft Position Sensor A Circuit Range / Performance
P0506- Idle Air Control System RPM Lower Than Expected
The only thing different before/after the misfiring is the ignition coil upgrade. But I’m not sure how that could be causing these codes? Should I be grounding the new coil wires to the battery negative?
I do have an AEM MazdaSpeed cold air intake.
If more information or pictures are needed please let me know and I’ll provide.
Thank you in advance!!
06-16-2022, 08:19 AM
#2
Are you sure the coils connect to the correct spark plug each?
When you say it doesn't start, does that mean the starter turns but doesn't fire, or nothing moves at all (in which case charge your battery)?
I would clear thos codes and see if they come back. Weird but transient electrical stuff can happen.
I would try grounding them somewhere else away from the engine, since the spark plugs also ground in the housing the bracket is bolted to and there might be weird ground loop effects in play. Easy enough to try.
When you say it doesn't start, does that mean the starter turns but doesn't fire, or nothing moves at all (in which case charge your battery)?
I would clear thos codes and see if they come back. Weird but transient electrical stuff can happen.
I would try grounding them somewhere else away from the engine, since the spark plugs also ground in the housing the bracket is bolted to and there might be weird ground loop effects in play. Easy enough to try.
06-16-2022, 11:31 AM
#3
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Are you sure the coils connect to the correct spark plug each?
When you say it doesn't start, does that mean the starter turns but doesn't fire, or nothing moves at all (in which case charge your battery)?
I would clear thos codes and see if they come back. Weird but transient electrical stuff can happen.
I would try grounding them somewhere else away from the engine, since the spark plugs also ground in the housing the bracket is bolted to and there might be weird ground loop effects in play. Easy enough to try.
When you say it doesn't start, does that mean the starter turns but doesn't fire, or nothing moves at all (in which case charge your battery)?
I would clear thos codes and see if they come back. Weird but transient electrical stuff can happen.
I would try grounding them somewhere else away from the engine, since the spark plugs also ground in the housing the bracket is bolted to and there might be weird ground loop effects in play. Easy enough to try.
The start moves but it doesn’t fire up. I will double check I have the coils are plugged in properly. I know for sure the spark plugs are. I followed this diagram with my friends help.
I have switched the ground, it’s now grounded on a peg somewhere just in front of the brake booster on the chassis. I’m also going to attach a video of me trying to start the car. This video is after all the changes made. I did clear the codes and tried starting her back up but the same codes popped up.
Last edited by APK_RX8; 06-16-2022 at 11:37 AM.
06-16-2022, 12:35 PM
#4
Hmm. Is it possible the coolant leak affected more than just coils? The eccentric shaft position sensor is low on the engine, could the coolant have leaked there and fouled the sensor or shorted the connection?
Your tach moves, which means it's picking up engine rpm through that sensor, so it's weird that you would get that code.
Perhaps the P0366 issue is intermittent. P0506 is also a weird one, you may want to check what MAF flow rate and rpm values you're seeing while cranking via OBD.
Given the number of starting attempts, I would try deflooding or checking the spark plugs condition and drying them out. It might just be flooded (though this would be strange given that it was fine before you changed coils).
Your tach moves, which means it's picking up engine rpm through that sensor, so it's weird that you would get that code.
Perhaps the P0366 issue is intermittent. P0506 is also a weird one, you may want to check what MAF flow rate and rpm values you're seeing while cranking via OBD.
Given the number of starting attempts, I would try deflooding or checking the spark plugs condition and drying them out. It might just be flooded (though this would be strange given that it was fine before you changed coils).
06-16-2022, 02:53 PM
#5
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Thread Starter
Hmm. Is it possible the coolant leak affected more than just coils? The eccentric shaft position sensor is low on the engine, could the coolant have leaked there and fouled the sensor or shorted the connection?
Your tach moves, which means it's picking up engine rpm through that sensor, so it's weird that you would get that code.
Perhaps the P0366 issue is intermittent. P0506 is also a weird one, you may want to check what MAF flow rate and rpm values you're seeing while cranking via OBD.
Given the number of starting attempts, I would try deflooding or checking the spark plugs condition and drying them out. It might just be flooded (though this would be strange given that it was fine before you changed coils).
Your tach moves, which means it's picking up engine rpm through that sensor, so it's weird that you would get that code.
Perhaps the P0366 issue is intermittent. P0506 is also a weird one, you may want to check what MAF flow rate and rpm values you're seeing while cranking via OBD.
Given the number of starting attempts, I would try deflooding or checking the spark plugs condition and drying them out. It might just be flooded (though this would be strange given that it was fine before you changed coils).
I have a friend who’s a mechanic that will come out and work on the car for me, so I’m going to set up an appointment with him. I think this issue is just beyond what I’m capable of figuring out. But I will be keeping this thread updated.
Any more information is always appreciated!!
06-16-2022, 06:41 PM
#6
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So after talking with a friend, he suggested I pull out a spark plug, attach it to the ignition coil wire, and crank the engine. To see if I saw a spark, which I did not.
So, my conclusion is that the ignition coils are getting power BUT they are not sending a spark.
Where should I go from here? The ignition coils, wires, and spark plugs are all brand new.
So, my conclusion is that the ignition coils are getting power BUT they are not sending a spark.
Where should I go from here? The ignition coils, wires, and spark plugs are all brand new.
06-17-2022, 06:39 AM
#7
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Starter is turning to slow for the ess to get a good signal. Pretty sure the car will cut spark if the starter is to slow.
06-17-2022, 09:19 AM
#8
So after talking with a friend, he suggested I pull out a spark plug, attach it to the ignition coil wire, and crank the engine. To see if I saw a spark, which I did not.
So, my conclusion is that the ignition coils are getting power BUT they are not sending a spark.
Where should I go from here? The ignition coils, wires, and spark plugs are all brand new.
So, my conclusion is that the ignition coils are getting power BUT they are not sending a spark.
Where should I go from here? The ignition coils, wires, and spark plugs are all brand new.
Personally, if I were your buddy coming behind you with everything you said, I'd be checking plugs on the harness all around where you were working to make sure they're all fully seated. I don't have your car in front of me to know exactly what's in each plug and wire where you're messing around, but it's not beyond the bounds of reason to assume Mazda would group a few systems together in the harness there on the block.
Last edited by spectre6000; 06-17-2022 at 09:23 AM.
06-17-2022, 11:24 AM
#9
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Thread Starter
The plug still needs a ground connection. You can't just hold it in the air and watch. If your spark plug cables have boots on them, you can pull the boot back and hold the lead to the plug tip while it's still in the engine (easier than pulling the plug), and see that it arcs to the plug when held within a few mm (it's high enough voltage to jump a decent gap, but still needs to be close). If the wires don't have boots, or you want to see it on the plug, you just need to touch the plug threads to the block or something so it can still flow current. You actually don't even need to go that far, the plug wire/plug can arc to any ground directly instead of going through the plug if the plug is inconvenient to get to. I'd stick to the block, since the ground strap can for sure handle the voltage, but it's not a very finicky test. Just gotta know how the electrickery do.
Personally, if I were your buddy coming behind you with everything you said, I'd be checking plugs on the harness all around where you were working to make sure they're all fully seated. I don't have your car in front of me to know exactly what's in each plug and wire where you're messing around, but it's not beyond the bounds of reason to assume Mazda would group a few systems together in the harness there on the block.
Personally, if I were your buddy coming behind you with everything you said, I'd be checking plugs on the harness all around where you were working to make sure they're all fully seated. I don't have your car in front of me to know exactly what's in each plug and wire where you're messing around, but it's not beyond the bounds of reason to assume Mazda would group a few systems together in the harness there on the block.
this information was most helpful. I’m not very good at understanding how the electrickery do the do, so I really appreciate the couple different ways you mentioned! I’m definitely going to have to have one of my homies come over and help with that part.
But to clarify, cause I’m super ignorant, the boot you refer to on the plug cables is the rubber piece that the spark plugs go into?
So I pull back the rubber on the spark plug cables and hold them close to the spark plugs and see if it arcs; if I understand the method correctly.
I will be taking my time today in double checking that all electrical plugs are plugged in properly and all the way in.
Again, I really appreciate your help! I’ve never had anyone to show me car stuff so I’m learning on my own, makes me feel less alone in this lol.
06-17-2022, 02:24 PM
#10
The thing you're looking for is an HEI tester. I dunno how I feel about holding high voltage coils in the air to see if it sparks. Mostly because you don't want to accidently become part of your ignition circuit, but also because the air gap from cable to spark plug ADDS to the air gap at the spark plug electrode so what works when plugged in may not work the same way when not plugged in. An HEI tester is the right tool for coil testing.
But given all the startup attempts you've been doing, and how it died on the first few, I guarantee it's at LEAST flooded. If the wiring is verified correct, and the ESS is clean/plugged, I'd give deflooding a solid try. It takes longer than you would think, but it should start to catch after a few attempts.
But given all the startup attempts you've been doing, and how it died on the first few, I guarantee it's at LEAST flooded. If the wiring is verified correct, and the ESS is clean/plugged, I'd give deflooding a solid try. It takes longer than you would think, but it should start to catch after a few attempts.
06-17-2022, 07:41 PM
#11
@Loki Lol! Sounds like someone who's never taken that jolt! It's not my favorite part of poking around an engine compartment, but it's not going to hurt you. That's not to say don't respect it, it can do damage if you really try to do especially dumb things, but spark plug wires aren't going to kill you. There'd be a lot more dead mechanics if that were the case.
@APK_RX8 You have to complete the circuit. The energy flows in a circle, and if the circle is open*, the energy doesn't flow. In this case, the electricity starts at the battery, goes out through various bits to the coils, through the plug wires and plugs, through the block, and to ground back at the negative pole on the battery. If you're holding the plug in the air, the circle is broken. *That said, the pixies can jump over small gaps, and that's what you're trying to do; make a gap, but a small enough gap that the pixies can make the leap.
Spark plug wires are pretty simple. They're wires (duh) with little clips on the ends that go over the ball-shaped terminals on the spark plugs, or into the cups/over the ***** of coils (do a google search for universal spark plug wire kits where you cut to fit, etc. to see the anatomy more clearly). They have rubber boots that cover those clips so you can manipulate them easily without getting zapped. On some wires, the boots are molded in, and you can't slide them back; sometimes you can roll them back though. On others, the boots slide. Exposing the clip on the end, and holding that next to the block is an easy way to check for spark.
Classic (pre-computerized everything) troubleshooting involves only three things: fuel, air, and spark. Spark is usually the first thing you check, because it's nothing to grab a spark plug wire off a plug or the distributor, and hold it up to the block to make sure it arcs, thus verifying spark. Which, oh yeah, you could do this same thing at the coils if you don't want to reach down there.
@APK_RX8 You have to complete the circuit. The energy flows in a circle, and if the circle is open*, the energy doesn't flow. In this case, the electricity starts at the battery, goes out through various bits to the coils, through the plug wires and plugs, through the block, and to ground back at the negative pole on the battery. If you're holding the plug in the air, the circle is broken. *That said, the pixies can jump over small gaps, and that's what you're trying to do; make a gap, but a small enough gap that the pixies can make the leap.
Spark plug wires are pretty simple. They're wires (duh) with little clips on the ends that go over the ball-shaped terminals on the spark plugs, or into the cups/over the ***** of coils (do a google search for universal spark plug wire kits where you cut to fit, etc. to see the anatomy more clearly). They have rubber boots that cover those clips so you can manipulate them easily without getting zapped. On some wires, the boots are molded in, and you can't slide them back; sometimes you can roll them back though. On others, the boots slide. Exposing the clip on the end, and holding that next to the block is an easy way to check for spark.
Classic (pre-computerized everything) troubleshooting involves only three things: fuel, air, and spark. Spark is usually the first thing you check, because it's nothing to grab a spark plug wire off a plug or the distributor, and hold it up to the block to make sure it arcs, thus verifying spark. Which, oh yeah, you could do this same thing at the coils if you don't want to reach down there.
06-17-2022, 10:30 PM
#12
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@spectre6000 and @Loki thank you both for your help so far! I really appreciate it a lot! Right now, I’m going to purchase one of those HEI testers and test all 4 of the ignition coils. But, unfortunately I’m broke from buying parts previously. So I’ll have to wait until Tuesday (pay day). Once I figure out if a spark is being sent to the spark plugs, I can go from there hopefully.
I am going to do some independent research on how to do the de-flooding process. Some YouTube videos and around the forums here. I’ll at least try that until I get the money to purchase a tester.
But fear not I will keep the thread updated for those who may have this issue in the future.
I am going to do some independent research on how to do the de-flooding process. Some YouTube videos and around the forums here. I’ll at least try that until I get the money to purchase a tester.
But fear not I will keep the thread updated for those who may have this issue in the future.
06-20-2022, 10:39 PM
#13
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Hey everyone, just wanted to keep things updated!
This morning a held one of the spark plugs to the battery ground before work, and I got a spark.
I also heard back from BennettBuilt, he said the engine sounded flooded on the video.
Finally having a full day off tomorrow, I can focus solely on my car and I’m going to try to do the deflooding process. Hopefully it goes well..
I’ll be back with how it goes!
This morning a held one of the spark plugs to the battery ground before work, and I got a spark.
I also heard back from BennettBuilt, he said the engine sounded flooded on the video.
Finally having a full day off tomorrow, I can focus solely on my car and I’m going to try to do the deflooding process. Hopefully it goes well..
I’ll be back with how it goes!
06-21-2022, 11:12 AM
#14
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Hello friends and fellow enthusiasts! I am still in need of your knowledge and guidance.
I did the deflooding process for the first time. Now, my RX8 fires up and turns over but does not stay on. It sounds like a lawn mower and when I give it gas it pops real bad. It also doesn’t go above 3rpm when I give it gas at idle. If you’ve ever accidentally forgotten to plug your MAF sensor in and turn the car on, it sounds like that.
As far as I know everything is still plugged in properly. Here a video of me turning the car on, any insight would be greatly appreciated!!
I did the deflooding process for the first time. Now, my RX8 fires up and turns over but does not stay on. It sounds like a lawn mower and when I give it gas it pops real bad. It also doesn’t go above 3rpm when I give it gas at idle. If you’ve ever accidentally forgotten to plug your MAF sensor in and turn the car on, it sounds like that.
As far as I know everything is still plugged in properly. Here a video of me turning the car on, any insight would be greatly appreciated!!
06-21-2022, 01:14 PM
#15
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Another update:
I tried doing the “tap the brake pedal 20 times in 8 seconds” method to try reset everything. But I’ve now drained my battery with all the start ups. BUT initially after doing the 20 pump reset the car then did not want to turn over again.
The mystery continues… Unfortunately.
I tried doing the “tap the brake pedal 20 times in 8 seconds” method to try reset everything. But I’ve now drained my battery with all the start ups. BUT initially after doing the 20 pump reset the car then did not want to turn over again.
The mystery continues… Unfortunately.
06-22-2022, 04:05 PM
#16
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So, some less than satisfying news.
My friend and I didn’t get the car started. The 3 small little hoses that go on the upper intake I had originally forgotten to plug back in. Once I did, the car began to idle. It was EXTREMELY rough, but an improvement in my eyes.
At this point, I plan on taking it to a rotary specialist after my next pay check (which will be next Tuesday). The only one I know of near me (Apopka, FL) is Kilo Racing in St Cloud, FL. If anyone knows of any other reputable mechanics in the Apopka/Orlando Florida area I’d really appreciate any advice on where to go!
My friend and I didn’t get the car started. The 3 small little hoses that go on the upper intake I had originally forgotten to plug back in. Once I did, the car began to idle. It was EXTREMELY rough, but an improvement in my eyes.
At this point, I plan on taking it to a rotary specialist after my next pay check (which will be next Tuesday). The only one I know of near me (Apopka, FL) is Kilo Racing in St Cloud, FL. If anyone knows of any other reputable mechanics in the Apopka/Orlando Florida area I’d really appreciate any advice on where to go!
06-23-2022, 09:06 AM
#17
Going back to the original post, your assumption was that the coils failed due to coolant leaking on them. I understand the common misperception about anything electrical + anything wet = disaster, but consider that cars are driven in rain. Barring some serious corrosion, it's really not all that likely that was the cause of your problem so much as a red herring netted because you started poking around looking for an explanation for a problem.
Another almost-as-common malady resulting in poor idle, etc. is low compression. Nowhere in this thread is there any mention of a compression test or compression figures. Unfortunately, the shop manual troubleshooting section has nearly a page of possible culprits for these sorts of symptoms... Could also be more vacuum leaks, more electrical problems, fuel pump, old gas, etc. We really don't have enough information to point you in a more resolute direction. Taking it to someone who knows rotaries and can actually look around and lay hands on things is probably your best bet.
Another almost-as-common malady resulting in poor idle, etc. is low compression. Nowhere in this thread is there any mention of a compression test or compression figures. Unfortunately, the shop manual troubleshooting section has nearly a page of possible culprits for these sorts of symptoms... Could also be more vacuum leaks, more electrical problems, fuel pump, old gas, etc. We really don't have enough information to point you in a more resolute direction. Taking it to someone who knows rotaries and can actually look around and lay hands on things is probably your best bet.
06-23-2022, 09:54 AM
#18
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Going back to the original post, your assumption was that the coils failed due to coolant leaking on them. I understand the common misperception about anything electrical + anything wet = disaster, but consider that cars are driven in rain. Barring some serious corrosion, it's really not all that likely that was the cause of your problem so much as a red herring netted because you started poking around looking for an explanation for a problem.
Another almost-as-common malady resulting in poor idle, etc. is low compression. Nowhere in this thread is there any mention of a compression test or compression figures. Unfortunately, the shop manual troubleshooting section has nearly a page of possible culprits for these sorts of symptoms... Could also be more vacuum leaks, more electrical problems, fuel pump, old gas, etc. We really don't have enough information to point you in a more resolute direction. Taking it to someone who knows rotaries and can actually look around and lay hands on things is probably your best bet.
Another almost-as-common malady resulting in poor idle, etc. is low compression. Nowhere in this thread is there any mention of a compression test or compression figures. Unfortunately, the shop manual troubleshooting section has nearly a page of possible culprits for these sorts of symptoms... Could also be more vacuum leaks, more electrical problems, fuel pump, old gas, etc. We really don't have enough information to point you in a more resolute direction. Taking it to someone who knows rotaries and can actually look around and lay hands on things is probably your best bet.
I believe I did mention in my last update I planned on taking it to a place called Kilo Racing in St Cloud, FL. They work on rotaries and have decent reviews on Google. If you are familiar with any rotary specialist in the Apopka/Orlando area please share!
06-23-2022, 08:51 PM
#20
You might check that each coil has the correct low voltage wiring plug connected. If you disconnected all coils at the same time to replace them it may be possible to cross the wires (the small wire bundles that do not go to the spark plugs). I don't remember off hand how they are marked although I replaced mine recently.
If that is the case you could be firing a leading instead of a trailing or the wrong rotor.
If that is the case you could be firing a leading instead of a trailing or the wrong rotor.
Last edited by SDB; 06-24-2022 at 04:01 PM.
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