delta378

Hello all! Been lurking for a few days getting some info and thought I'd introduce myself. Just got a beautiful new to me rx8 and it's my first rotary car. She's a 2004 GT with 117k miles. I always loved and admired the look and style of the rx8 and when the opportunity presented itself I jumped on it. I love the car. So fun to drive.

I don't know if its the original motor but there's plenty of power and runs pretty darn smooth considering it's 15 years old. I'm not an experienced car tech so be gentle. Only DIY I've done are basic fluid changes and accessory installs. That may all change after buying the rx8. lol! I know they are finicky machines that require a lot of attention and love. Looking forward to hanging out and learning about these incredible cars.

Cheers!

delta

Speedanimal

Great looking car!

Your car is what I wish my new project looked like (same year and color even haha).

You can call Mazda directly and ask for any service records. I believe any local dealer can also get them. This should tell you if the car has had an engine replacement and any dealership work on it. My assumption is it on at least its second motor (mine had one at just 6k miles from a local Mazda dealer for example) as most any beyond 100k seem to have had their's replaced.

Welcome to the club! I hope you enjoy the car!

furansu

Dealer records are a pain and, at least in my experience, are de-centralized. Best bet is to use your CARFAX records to see what dealers have touched the car (new sale, service, recalls, etc). Take that list and call each dealer's service team and request a print out of the records they have on the VIN (They will need the model, and last 8 digits of the VIN). Big thing to check for is that the car's ECM was updated for the increased oil flow through the Oil Metering System.

Mazda reman engines should (not always) have a blue tag on the front engine cover (just below the alternator/coils on the driver-side).

Loki

iTrader: (1)

Just call Mazda North America. Engines are big ticket items, especially if changed under warranty, I'm sure Mazda would have records if it was changed by Mazda. You'll get your recall status at the same time.

delta378

Well I guess the inevitable happened. lol I need your help now.

Car ran great for a little while (few hundred miles) but noticed it gulps oil. Like a full quart or more per tank of gas. There was mild blue smoke from exhaust at startup but went away after warming up and although I couldn't see it, I could definitely smell it. Car started idling funny past couple days. Just a tiny blip of rpm drop every few seconds. Also noticed a high pitched scraping noise coming from engine bay. Sounds a little like one of the pulleys needs some lube. First rotary so I thought that was normal.

So the other day I drove the 8 for a couple short trips around town picking up kids and such. That evening decided to take the 8 out for a high rev decarb session. After warm up took her to redline a couple of times. On the way back home I drove her a little hard making runs above 5-6k. I came to the intersection to pull into my residential track and upon accelerating to make the turn, car started bogging hard and CEL flashing light came on. Luckily I was close to home and limped her home. Checked code and it was P0301. Decided not to try anything else that night and let her sleep. Walked into my house all depressed and pissed.

The following morning I started the car and the oil light popped on. Opened the hood and noticed the scraping noise was louder than usual. Sounded horrible. I dumped in oil as quickly as I could and the sound leveled off back to where it was before. I wasn't trying to measure the oil as I was just trying to get it in as quickly as possible. I think I poured in a full quart or more. BUT, now the car started puffing out smoke from exhaust like crazy. Previously, I did notice if I topped off oil a little above half way mark on the dipstick car tended to smoke more and if I kept it right above the low level line it didn't smoke as much if at all. I let her sit at idle and it just didn't sound right. Idle was rough but was hoping it sort itself out. Cleared code and pulled out of driveway with tons of smoke still puffing out of exhaust.

Tried to take it around my block to see how bad the situation was. It started bogging bad so I turned around and parked it right back on the driveway.

Later at night with the cover of darkness to hide the embarrassing smoke from exhaust, I decided to take her out around the residential block a few times. Car started as usual but sounded a little rough. After a about a minute after startup, exhaust started puffing out smoke again. Warmed it up at idle and eased her out of the driveway. 1st gear there was a severe herky jerky stutter accelerating from stop. Throttle response was really laggy. But once it got moving above 2k rpm the stutter dissipated and shifting to 2nd at around 15 mph it was not as noticeable. I didn't push it too hard and never went more than 3k rpm and 3rd gear was the highest I took her. 2nd and 3rd gear the stutter seemed much better. Thankfully the smoke went away after a couple times around the block. Didn't want to push her anymore and parked.

I searched through the forum and googled everything I could but there is so much information I don't even know where to start. Thought I'd log the sequence of events here to get some advice.

From what I gathered so far, the ignition system is a prime suspect and the guzzling oil could be the OMP. That scraping noise really haunts me though. No idea where it's coming from. What scares me is that it got loud when oil light was on and went away after putting more oil in.

Here's what I know. Engine was replaced by Mazda at 80,214 miles back in 2010. Car now has 117,500 miles. Car was serviced through Mazda dealer and they performed a full service inspection at 116,704 miles Sept. of 2018. All recalls have been performed. New muffler installed during service inspection.

Sorry for the long post. Just wanted to list everything that happened to help diagnose the problems.

Thanks,

delta

UnknownJinX

Did the full inspection include a rotary-specific compression test?

1 quart per tank... I think people who track would burn less than that normally. According to RIWWP's comments:

Have you also checked the ignition components? If you are burning that much oil, I would definitely check to see if the spark plugs are fouled, which would be why you are getting the misfire.

Lastly, do you have a catalytic converter? If so, remove it and inspect it ASAP, and don't put it back on until you figure out why the car uses that much oil.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

Take the intake apart and see if the oil filter and MAF are oily. That will be one cause of instability, and is often caused by simply overfilling the oil, but on a tired engine blowby pressure will force oil into the intake.
As for the screeching noise... the air pump can make all kinds of sounds when the bearings start to go, but it's only used to warm up the cat and plays no role once the car is warmed up. That may be why it got better as you added oil (while the car warmed up). Since you weren't measuring, it's possible you dumped way too much oil in there. What is the level now?

It could also be oil control ring failure, but let's eliminate the stuff outside of the engine first.

While this is obviously not just ignition, what is the actual state of the ignition coils and spark plugs?

delta378

Thanks for the replies guys. Haven't had a chance to take apart the ignition system or cat yet. Only had time to look in intake. Air filter and throttle body was clean of oil.

I drove the car around several times and the smoking has significantly reduced and virtually gone but see below comment. The misfire/stuttering seems to have disappeared as well, other than briefly yesterday after driving car hard. It misfired and stuttered briefly after pushing car to redline. Drove car this morning and no misfires. Drove fine. Car has plenty of power. Scares the crap out of me from 7k to 9k rpms. In a good way

Still smokes mildly at startup both cold and hot, but disappears after driving it for a bit. But as mentioned, this was the case when I kept the oil level just above the low level mark. When it was smoking like a chimney it was at or slightly above halfway mark on dipstick after dumping in oil in panic. Yes, car consumed that much oil (from half mark to just above low mark) with only a few sessions of driving about 50 miles. I don't know if that's any kind of indication of a problem. It's definitely guzzling oil. I also noticed that when it was smoking bad, more came out of the passenger side exhaust port. What could this mean?

I'm planning on ordering new coil packs, wires and plugs but I don't want to spend the money to change only to find out the car needs a rebuild. I guess I should really inspect the coils and plugs first. I'll do that asap.

What are your thoughts on this ignition kit from amazon.
Car recently passed emissions so I'm not due for awhile. Should I remove cat and throw on a midpipe? I think I can deal with the oil guzzling because I don't drive it often but my concern is that it'll destroy the cat and cause more engine problems. If I switch to midpipe would that help alleviate some of the problems a clogged cat would cause to engine? I know I'll have to do a rebuild sooner or later but not trying to dump money into car just yet. I read on forum you can drive car for awhile with a failing oil ring as long as I keep adding oil. That's why I ask if I should switch to midpipe and make engine last a little longer as-is.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

I would hedge on the side of needing a rebuild and work backwards from there. There are no good reasons to be huffing that much oil, but you can certainly try and confirm the diagnosis. If it needs a rebuild, doing it now or doing it in 2 months is not a significant difference, so you may as well so it now and not drive on failing oil rings and not spend money on a midpipe.

The cat could still be saveable so focus on that.

I wouldn't buy suspiciously cheap coils any more than a suspicously cheap liver transplant

delta378

I'm curious why my car won't smoke out of exhaust if the oil level is at the low level mark but smokes like a chimney at half way mark. Purely based on this, what do you think it could be?

Loki

iTrader: (1)

Excess blowby could be forcing oil into the intake, especially at higher rpms. This would also cause high rpm stumbles and misfires. I know you said the intake and MAF are dry, but what about the throttle body and further down?

If! Its all dry then the oil really is exiting through an oil seal somewhere. The OMP even at its highest output doesn't push enough oil for heavy smoke.

That's why I'm thinking there is not easy fix here, unfortunately.

delta378

Update...

Wasn't able to get the cat off but did a couple other things over the weekend.

Saturday: Seafoamed the engine following the DIY on forum through vacuum lines. The torque app was reading an idle vacuum of 15-ish before treatment but 16-ish afterwards. Maybe slightly smoother all around but no major difference I could tell.

Sunday: With seafoam treatment complete, it was time to finally replace ignition coils, wires and plugs. Rotor 1 plugs and plug hole were caked with gunk and Rotor 2 plugs/hole were clean.

Result: After ignition system replaced, car started up instantly both hot and cold. It took a good few seconds before. But the biggest difference was how smooth car ran, especially at low rpm where it usually bogged before. Definitely feels like increased power. Drove it couple days with medium trips here and there ranging from 40-50 miles round trip and car ran great but still guzzled oil.

Observations:

1. I noticed car would smoke out exhaust after driving car hard or under heavy load such as driving up steep inclines. It doesn't smoke right away but after shutting down engine and after restarting. The other day went to run errand and had to climb a 1 mile steep incline. Completed errand and when I started it up, it started smoking a lot. Smoke went away after a couple miles of driving. This also happens after doing a redline decarb session. Just yesterday after taking to redline, car bogged for a brief moment. After restarting, plumes of smoke. This was with the new ignition coils and plugs.

2. Also notice that car smokes out exhaust when engine braking going downhill. This is only with prolonged engine braking/down shifting.

3. Went for another drive last night and it started smoking a lot after startup. Let it idle for a awhile and smoke reduced but didn't fully go away. Went around the block a couple of times and smoke reduced even more. So I took car out to main road and drove it mildly around town keeping it under 5k rpm and cruised around town averaging 3.5k rpm cruising for about 15 mins. I was testing out a theory that oil is being excessively consumed under heavy load. Car drove perfectly fine during this time and zero smoke.

4. This morning had to run an errand and after startup, car didn't smoke at all. Nothing. Completed errand driving mildly like last night and it ran perfect. No smoke, no bogging, nice and smooth.

5. Almost forgot but when changing out coils, I found some oil had collected on the lower ridges of the accordion intake tube. Oil looked old as it appeared dry and light brown in color.

Just throwing out as much detail and info I've been able to collect the past few days hoping to get a diagnosis. Trying to figure out if I really need a rebuild or not. Any ideas??

I don't think the cat is clogged because it wasn't glowing red anytime I checked and there is no power loss, and never got any cat related cel codes. That said, with the excessive oil consumption and exhaust smoke, I'm guessing the cat is going to go probably sooner than later.

Questions is, would gutting cat or replacing with midpipe buy me some time before I have to rebuild if I have a failing oil ring?

delta378

Plugs that were pulled. Right plugs rotor 1.

UnknownJinX

So you are saying it doesn't guzzle oil when you keep it at low line?

That gives me an unlikely idea... Maybe you have the wrong dipstick? You know, when it reads low, it really is at max?

And when you dumped in oil, did you use a long neck funnel? If not, oil can go down the PCV pipe and end up in the accordion tube.

Seafoaming the engine like that... From what I have read, it doesn't really achieve much, and you can use distilled water to get essentially the same results. Carbon the rotor face isn't the key problem, and it would be pretty difficult to get the carbon that wedged in the apex seals out.

And what colour is the smoke? Seafoam can produce quite a smoke show, but shouldn't last that long.

thebubbadog

I did the distilled water trick and it worked out really well and made the car feel better

Loki

iTrader: (1)

Smoke + high oil consumption = you're either sucking in oil through the intake or it's passing by the oil rings. Considering only one rotor has oil deposits, I'm inclined to believe this is oil ring failure on the front rotor.

delta378

Is there anything I can try to address the failing oil control ring other than a full rebuild?