Slow start up, rough idle and weird noise
07-29-2018, 06:55 PM
#1
Slow start up, rough idle and weird noise
Hi all, so this is my third week as an rx 8 owner, I just had the cat replaced as the internals broke which was affecting my rpms. All fixed and working great.
Then... I was leaving work the other day and accelerating, I heard a weird sound, like blowing leaves in a bucket with a hairdryer, weird example but thats the closest that I can think of. The location of the sound seems to be from the glovebox area. Weird sound went away and performance did not seem to be affected. But then I stopped at target to get some groceries and when I went to start, it would not start. I waited and then tried again, this time I held it and after about 30 seconds of turning the key and holding it, it started.
The next morning I went out to the car just to test start and it started fine. Didn’t drive it all day. Sunday I went to go to the store and again, took about 30 seconds of holding the key turned to get it going and then the strange rustling sound when I started off.
I know startup issues can be a few different things but the strange sound could be an indicator so I was just curious what others think, the help here already pinpointed the cat but this time I don’t have a check engine light do no dishes to check. Also it idles below 1 which seems low to me?
Then... I was leaving work the other day and accelerating, I heard a weird sound, like blowing leaves in a bucket with a hairdryer, weird example but thats the closest that I can think of. The location of the sound seems to be from the glovebox area. Weird sound went away and performance did not seem to be affected. But then I stopped at target to get some groceries and when I went to start, it would not start. I waited and then tried again, this time I held it and after about 30 seconds of turning the key and holding it, it started.
The next morning I went out to the car just to test start and it started fine. Didn’t drive it all day. Sunday I went to go to the store and again, took about 30 seconds of holding the key turned to get it going and then the strange rustling sound when I started off.
I know startup issues can be a few different things but the strange sound could be an indicator so I was just curious what others think, the help here already pinpointed the cat but this time I don’t have a check engine light do no dishes to check. Also it idles below 1 which seems low to me?
Last edited by Staples; 07-29-2018 at 08:05 PM.
07-30-2018, 04:00 AM
#2
Smoking turbo yay
First of all, don't crank your car for more than 10 seconds consecutively, unless you like a crispy fried starter. If it doesn't start after 10 seconds, let it off for 10 seconds before trying again.
So you are having trouble with cold cranking or hot cranking? Cold cranking issues are usually related to ignition components(replaced yet?), while hot cranking issues are usually related to compression(have you had that checked properly) or fuel pump.
As for the noise from the glovebox area, look up "marbles in a can" and see if your problem is similar.
Lastly, normal idling speed should be around 800~850 RPM. I have never actually been in a car with idling above 1000 RPM. My old V6 Accord actually idled as low as 650 RPM and that's the spec. Some old ported rotary engines cannot idle below 2000 RPM, but that's another story.
So you are having trouble with cold cranking or hot cranking? Cold cranking issues are usually related to ignition components(replaced yet?), while hot cranking issues are usually related to compression(have you had that checked properly) or fuel pump.
As for the noise from the glovebox area, look up "marbles in a can" and see if your problem is similar.
Lastly, normal idling speed should be around 800~850 RPM. I have never actually been in a car with idling above 1000 RPM. My old V6 Accord actually idled as low as 650 RPM and that's the spec. Some old ported rotary engines cannot idle below 2000 RPM, but that's another story.
Last edited by UnknownJinX; 07-30-2018 at 04:03 AM.
07-30-2018, 08:18 AM
#3
Good to know about the crank time. I don’t think it’s related to hot or cold because it’s started up fine in both. Then again it was working fine and the all of a sudden it almost doesn’t start. Compression was checked about 2000 miles ago. I have noticed before this happened that when I drive it for a wile and stop at the store or the gas station, it does does take a few more seconds to start than it would from completely cold but it always started without too much of a problem. When I am cranking it, it feels almost dead with no life and then it starts to feel like a heartbeat rhythms slowly comes as the car gets closer to starting, weird analogy I know but that’s how it feels
07-30-2018, 09:49 AM
#4
So as an update. This morning I got into my car. It started immedirately, as good as ever. I turned it off and started again, it started perfectly.
i went about 5 mins down the road, filled her up and she started ok, as little slower but only by a few seconds. Opened her up on the highway, hit the redline, seemingly no performance issues. I got to work which is about a 20 minute journey and when I got there i turned her off and then tried to restart and it took 3 times or so of cranking, stopping and then trying again before she did come back on.
My question is that if it is having compression issues, would it come back on when hot like it was today or would it just not come back on at all? Because if that is the case then I am leaning towards the starter, battery or coils
i went about 5 mins down the road, filled her up and she started ok, as little slower but only by a few seconds. Opened her up on the highway, hit the redline, seemingly no performance issues. I got to work which is about a 20 minute journey and when I got there i turned her off and then tried to restart and it took 3 times or so of cranking, stopping and then trying again before she did come back on.
My question is that if it is having compression issues, would it come back on when hot like it was today or would it just not come back on at all? Because if that is the case then I am leaning towards the starter, battery or coils
07-30-2018, 01:43 PM
#5
Smoking turbo yay
What are your compression numbers? How old are your ignition components? Just curious.
Which model year is your car? The 04 and early 05 starters were a bit weak.
Which model year is your car? The 04 and early 05 starters were a bit weak.
07-30-2018, 01:51 PM
#6
I don’t know what the compression numbers are. In the paperwork from Mazda that the seller gave me, it just states that compression was good, but it was taken in for deflooding because supposedly it sat too long. When they replaced the CAT last week, they said the starter looked brand new! I have no documentation that it was ever replaced though.
I just paid $1300 for a cat and sparks, so I’m a little hesistent to go back to the repair shop, especially when they always start with the $100 diagnostics. I ran a code reader and there’s no code being thrown out, no check engine light.
So I am thinking... should I check the battery amperage and possibly replace that and the starter motor?
I just paid $1300 for a cat and sparks, so I’m a little hesistent to go back to the repair shop, especially when they always start with the $100 diagnostics. I ran a code reader and there’s no code being thrown out, no check engine light.
So I am thinking... should I check the battery amperage and possibly replace that and the starter motor?
07-30-2018, 02:11 PM
#7
Water Foul
If it is a compression issue, it is typically gets harder to start with higher coolant temperatures. It takes about 10 minutes to get fully up to temp in the summer, so a trip of a few miles to the gas station may not be enough to realize the full extent of the compression loss on startup. The only way to truly know your engine's compression is to have it properly tested at a Mazda dealer or rotary shop.
Some people have run lower compression engines for thousands of additional miles, by ensuring the cat is healthy or absent, keeping the coils, plugs, and wires fresh, and by installing an S2 starter, which spins the engine faster.
Some people have run lower compression engines for thousands of additional miles, by ensuring the cat is healthy or absent, keeping the coils, plugs, and wires fresh, and by installing an S2 starter, which spins the engine faster.
07-30-2018, 02:27 PM
#8
Yeh I kinda figured someone was going to point me towards compression and it does make sense. I was just really hoping that it was something starter motor related because I just bought the car a few weeks ago for $4000 and within a week I put $1300 into it. If I put another couple of thousand into it I’m at the point where I could have got a newer one. It just seemed well taken care of, the previous owner was a nice older guy, it was a 2005 with 74000 which was good for its age and now it’s just crumbling. I almost sold it after I replaced the cat but I thought I’d stick with it. But now I can’t sell it because it doesn’t always start.
Could bad coils be the problem because i am not sure when they were last replaced?
Could bad coils be the problem because i am not sure when they were last replaced?
Last edited by Staples; 07-30-2018 at 02:29 PM.
07-30-2018, 03:15 PM
#9
Water Foul
Coils are considered suspect at 20K miles in this car, unfortunately. One of my Rev B trailing coils failed at around 10K miles. I bit the bullet and upgraded to BHR back then, so I wouldn't have to keep worrying about coils failing and killing my cat and then my engine.
Our general rule of thumb to used car buyers is, if you don't know the age of the coils, best to consider them weak and replace them, and do the plugs and wires, while you are in there. The ignition system certainly could be causing or contributing to your problem.
Our general rule of thumb to used car buyers is, if you don't know the age of the coils, best to consider them weak and replace them, and do the plugs and wires, while you are in there. The ignition system certainly could be causing or contributing to your problem.
07-30-2018, 06:42 PM
#12
Smoking turbo yay
No, there is actually no CEL code for the starter motor.
Sounds like you need to clean the Eccentric Shaft Sensor. Search the threads here on where it is. It just needs to be wiped clean.
Sounds like you need to clean the Eccentric Shaft Sensor. Search the threads here on where it is. It just needs to be wiped clean.
07-31-2018, 06:59 PM
#15
So another update, the car shut of when I was driving it home from work, I was in gear 1, it seemed to come back on whilst I was moving so I barely noticed it, I got a little further and it died again just outside my apartment, not stalled, just dead! I waited about 5 minutes and was able to start it up which was not easy. Then the battery and engine light came back on. My question is that before I start jacking it up and cleaning the ESS, could it be a bad battery? Or do you think I could still be looking at the ESS. I ask because now I can’t drive it, I was lucky it **** off just outside my home.
07-31-2018, 07:13 PM
#16
Smoking turbo yay
You said that the other morning it started up right away, so it doesn't sound like the battery to me. Just make sure the clamps are tightened properly and pushed down all the way. I learned that the other way.
You could also have a load test on your battery, which is free at most of the car places.
You could also have a load test on your battery, which is free at most of the car places.
07-31-2018, 07:30 PM
#17
My plan is to clean the ESS tonight, if that does it, great, if not I am taking to Mazda next Monday for a compression test, I’ve already booked her in. I figure it’s worth knowing for sure what the results are. If the ESS clean doesn’t do the trick then maybe the folks at Mazda could at least let me know what they think because they willl have it to do the compression test anyway.
08-06-2018, 12:01 PM
#18
So here is my long overdue update... I replaced the coil packs even though I was pretty sure that the previous owner replaced them around 2000 miles ago. I cleaned the ESS, I also replaced the air filter (it was crazy dirty). I cleaned the MAF sensor, the spark plugs were replaced a week ago. it Started fine, it drove great, I was able to red line it without issue. I started driving down my back streets, 5 mins into my journey at most and the car suffers a complete loss of power, it just shuts off and the battery and engine lights come on. I stop, sit for a few minutes and then am able to start it back up eventually. I drive it straight to the repair shop which I was luckily right next to, it shuts off again whilst I’m pulling in so I just let it roll into the parking space. They think is the crank shaft sensor, I don’t think so but I will leave it with them and see what they come up with.
It does not seem like a compression issue to me from what I have read online, but it’s just weird because it seems like so many things have gone wrong all at the same time.
list of done...
Cleaned MAF sensor
New CAT and sparks installed
New coils installed
Air filter replaced
ESS cleaned
It does not seem like a compression issue to me from what I have read online, but it’s just weird because it seems like so many things have gone wrong all at the same time.
list of done...
Cleaned MAF sensor
New CAT and sparks installed
New coils installed
Air filter replaced
ESS cleaned
08-06-2018, 01:30 PM
#19
Smoking turbo yay
If I have to guess, I would say it might be your fuel pump. If it starts to go bad, it will overheat after some hard pulls.
ESS just needs to be wiped clean for the most part.
ESS just needs to be wiped clean for the most part.
08-08-2018, 09:25 AM
#20
So my final update. I did take the car to Mazda and they confirmed that the compression is very low. I’m the 5’s. So I have my answer. They offered me a pre owned engine for $4300 or a new engine for $6300.
Im just totally gutted, the paperwork that the guy showed to me must have been a sham. The guy at Mazda said the engine had been going out for a while and the guy had installed a quick starter to get it going.
Im just totally gutted, the paperwork that the guy showed to me must have been a sham. The guy at Mazda said the engine had been going out for a while and the guy had installed a quick starter to get it going.
Last edited by Staples; 08-14-2018 at 05:48 PM.
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