eli371

So, I've had my 8 for about a year (04 with 140km/~90k miles, in the last couple days I've been getting a flashing CEL on really cold starts (has only happened on the first start of the day)

I read the Sticky in the tech garage forum about Flashing CEL, but I have some other symptoms so I'm hoping they will help narrow down the issue.


- Whenever I start the car, I get a strange cranking sound (which can be heard in the video above). This (new) sound happens on all starts, however I've only had a flashing CEL on the first start of the day when it's really cold. You can also see in the video that on cold starts, the revs drop significantly shortly after starting, usually below 1k (got lucky when i took the video, that was actually one of the better situations.), i've never had it stall from dropping too low, but it sounds awful, and normally sounds like it's going to choke. Shortly after ending the video I got the flashing CEL. (lasts between 5-10 seconds)

- The car is sluggish at low rpms (below 3k), the motor bounces/jerks, like when you come off the clutch to fast at low rpms when shifting gears, this goes away when the car warms up.

- I want to say that there is slight power loss at heavy throttle and high rpms, but this could just be my paranoia since the car has been acting up. I don't "hear" the misfire while driving, the car drives fine when it warms up, just sounds a little rough at idle.

- On a couple occasions, I have noticed a gas smell, not from inside the car though, I haven't seen any physical fuel leaks either. (this could also be paranoia)

- My car suffered from the hot start issue since the day I got it, I DON'T have an upgraded starter though, so that's not my concern atm, that sound when I turn it over is new.

If anyone has experienced similar issues and can lend some insight I'd be forever grateful. I'm hoping it's coils/plugs/wires (as I'm sure most people do when they have a misfire) but I also think it could be a clogged CAT or even low compression

Thanks for reading. I'll gladly provide any more details if required.

b2fast007

for the lurching check the motor mounts. If you are still on the factory mounts they are defineatly shot by your mileage the coils and plugs also need changed by your mileage. don't know whats been done but check these items first a compression check should also be done but if the seals are good the rest of what I mentioned covers all symptoms. If you pull the plugs first there will be impact damage on the plugs if the seals have failed.check them first before going to dealer for compression check.

eli371

The last time I took the car in they said my mounts were just starting to sag, so I'll definitely get to that to fix the 'lurching'.

I'm going to check the plugs tomorrow, not sure what "impact damage" looks like, but I'm guessing it's something that's pretty noticeable. Thanks for your input.

Will post updates.

b2fast007

google spark plug damage look at the pictures they will say mechanical damage basically something has struck the plug and you are right will be painfully obvious. The coils will have white circles on the bottom of the ones that are bad some lightening of the plastic will show on all the coils but will appear almost true white on the bad ones. They are fairly cheep replace them all and the leads also use the googled charts to determine if the plugs need replaced to. I replaced the lot about 5000 miles ago because of poor idle(rough) did the motor mounts used the mounts from,RX-8 Performance easy install longer lifespan than stock more vibration at low rpm goes away by 2000 rpm or so. I think the vibration actually gives better feedback when starting in first gear as to if you need more gas or more clutch. With the bad mounts it seemed like you gave it lot of throttle and nothing happened then the car would suddenly surge forward not any more it doesn't.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Not true.

From Mazda, who I hope you consider a sufficient expert:

eli371

Hey all,
So I've decided to go ahead and replace my ignition system, but I had a few questions regarding some things I read in the Flashing CEL sticky.

With regards to only using stock plugs, does this mean getting them directly from Mazda? I understand it has to do with the heat range, but I've found NGK laser iridiums (RE7CL and RE9BT?) from a parts dealer through DirectBuy. They are marketed as "racing" plugs, and they even have different plugs for each 50hp increase you've done to the engine to make the motor run cooler. My car is stock, so would going with the base version of these plugs be okay?

Secondly, (please don't flame me for this), I only need ONE coil pack right?

I had the whole system priced from the DirectBuy dealer (4 plugs, wires, coil) going for $270+taxes. Is this something I should consider?

Lastly, I went ahead and went through the new owners thread, I'm overwhelmed with the whole carbon build-up and seafoaming deal, I really want to keep the car, but one can't help but be concerned with the amount of issues that can arise. As an owner I'm very cautious and follow the methods posted here on maintaining the vehicle but at the same time the car already had ~70k miles on it when I bought it (the previous owner also mentioned it had flooded on her before). If I go to the dealer, will they let me know if a compression test has been done in the past and give me the results? If anyone shed some light on the carbon/seafoam deal that would be great, just quick minor details is enough. I appreciate all your time. Thanks in advance.

Edit: Just wanted to add this regarding my starter, is pursuing getting a more powerful starter from the DirectBuy dealer viable? or should I stick to getting the upgraded starter directly from Mazda?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Those are stock / OEM plugs, they are the ones to get. 2 of each.

Each plug has 1 wire that goes to 1 coil. 4 coils, 4 wires, 4 plugs. You can replace individual coils if you want, but A) you better be sure that you are replacing the ones that have failed and B) chances are any you don't replace are going to need to be replaced soon anyway. It's generally recommended to replace all 4 coils at the same time.


Plugs are $20 each, $80 for all 4 from numerous sources
Wires are all over the board based on brand, but pretty much any wires will be sufficient.
Coils can be had for as cheap as ~$30-35 each if you go with BWD/Intermotor coils. These coils are entirely sufficient for use, but expect to have to replace them every 30,000 miles at the longest, possibly longer. Many retailers that sell these also have a lifetime warranty on them, so replacing them every 30k could be done for free, in theory. OEM Revision C coils are going to run you $60-80ish each, depending on your source. They will last longer than the BWD coils, but there isn't any hard data on how much more reliable they are. Avoid ebay coils that are branded "Mazda", there are lots of counterfeit ones showing up. They are -probably- similar to the BWD coils, but I don't trust a company that markets their product under a different brand name. BWD may be "less ideal" to some people than Mazda's, but at least they stick their own name on it.

Add in discounts and free shipping and such, and you can get all 12 pieces for as low as about $190, $200-$210 is more average. Expect $350 range if you opt for the OEM coils of the latest revision.


Also, pull up the rear seat cushion behind the driver, open the access panel, and see if your fuel pump is leaking. It's not common, but if you smell fuel you should make sure to validate that it's not leaking there.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Regarding the seafoam / decarb, it's VERY hard to recommend that someone specifically decarb their engine. When I tested before/after seafoaming, there wasn't a benefit if it is just soaking in seafoam. Ingesting it while the engine is running works better. However ingesting distilled water is just as effective while costing 1% of the price per volume. Even after 2 gallons though, the carbon around the seals (which is what matters) wasn't being removed all that quickly.

Periodic "wankle spanking" where you run the engine hard for a period much of the needed carbon removal occurs. Not all of it, but it's the easiest method and subjectively as good as you might get. Autocross or track days are excellent examples of what works well. It's mainly meant as a warning against lugging the engine in low revs all the time, as this carbon chokes the engine.


In the end though, this is still a finicky engine that needs a lot of attention, and if you get really nervous about the possible problems, it might be better to trade for a car you are more comfortable with. Rotaries don't run on hope or wishes, and will punch you in the ***** if you try to rely on hope or wishes.

eli371

Awesome, thanks for the info.

I think I'm going to get this starting issue resolved, then clean MAF, then compression test. That will be the deciding factor in me selling the car. I may opt to pick up one of the models still under warranty, assuming my dealer won't hassle me regarding not having previous maintenance records and such (I read about this in another thread).