05rx8problems

I'm not here to complain, I came to this post hoping to see someone do another clean swap on a rx8. What I found was a bunch of people saying that swaps are unreliable, such a ignorant statement. As for the problems involved with rotory vehicles, they are well documented facts. Just like any other problematic engine there are things to do to make them last longer.

I will agree that putting a crap v6 from a prove or a mazda 6 in these is a dumb idea but atleast he is keeping the correct brand.

05rx8problems

I'll just throw this out there

2006 corvette ls2 m6 roughly 400hp and 3200lbs 3.42 rear end
Rx8 with ls2 m6 roughly 400hp and 3200lbs with a 4.33 rear end depending on year

Seems to me logically the rx8 with enough power is a corvette killer no matter what engine is in it.

I seen a picture once that said "LS1s are like a drunk retard, they'll stick it anything" lol

LiveWire

iTrader: (1)

The LSX series are not bad engines. If done properly they probably will out perform other vehicles. I think the big issue is when people want to swap to LS series motors because they think it is superior to the rotary engine. It has its pros and cons compared to a rotary, but that doesn't make it flat out "better" and if you fail to address that you are going to get bashed, as you would (and should) on most any forum for a swap into some other vehicle. It is poor etiquette and shows fundamental lack of understanding as an auto enthusiast IMO. After all, why buy a platform if you don't understanding it and are not willing to learn about it? Admitting you want an LS series motor because you are a fan boy/girl would be a lot simpler because a forum filled with rotary enthusiasts is likely to understand that desire. That's just a single example.

LSXREX

"better" is subjective. I prefer torque all over the powerband and not having to downshift to get around a semi. I also like having a motor live longer than 100k miles. But thats just me. Lots of fan boys out there. But its undisputable. Its internationally known that the LS platform is best for swaps and thats why it is such a popular swap. Theres gotta be a reason why half of the swaps have LSXs. Just the most intelligent option. I admit the rotary is a cool design and i would also admit i have a slight interest in it. However thats where it stops for me.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Another reason for the common LSx swap thing is that they are cheap and available.....that doesn't always equate to better

Otherwise we would possibly see more Ferrari engine swaps

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

And you probably found exactly what our members have been seeing for years: People that talk big about a swap, but end up falling flat when it comes time to deliver. They trivialize the problems that every prior swap runs into, underestimate the costs, and eventually vanish when they realize we were right.

The components aren't unreliable. The LS engine is very reliable. No one here is going to disagree with you on that. The SWAP is what's unreliable, and it's unreliable because of the issues overlooked, the problems ignored, and the corners cut.

I don't seriously think that you believe such a swap would automatically be reliable?

05rx8problems

A botched swap is a botched swap. It's not the idea thats the problem. It's people who don't know what they are doing.

Ls engine swaps are extremely reliable when done correctly. No need to bash the swap because of stupid people. That's all I'm getting at, swaps aren't the problem. People who shouldnt be under a hood is the problem.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

No one here disagrees with you on this. At all. In any way.

What if we are bashing the people that botch the swaps out of ignorance or arrogance? Or bashing the people who are clearly on the path to botch them?

I think you are getting our intent a bit crossed.

05rx8problems

I say we bash everyone lol the idea is flawless stupid people are the problem lol

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Well, I wouldn't say that the idea is flawless. That is probably a stretch

The cost and trouble of a proper swap is usually more than just getting a car with that engine in the first place. So most swaps are inherently illogical, and thus flawed.

05rx8problems

Depends on what it's worth to you. To me having a sick rx8 with a v8 under the hood is amazing. Some people believe only a rotary should be under it but that's just brand loyalty.

I love corvettes and I can't afford one. Well let me rephrase that I can afford a corvette, but I my standard of living would change dramatically for what a new one cost. Personally I love buying car parts. With a 1000$ a month car payment I won't be buying and car parts.

With that being said why not find a well designed good looking car and throw a corvette engine in it and have 4 seats. Some might say "buy a gto" my response would be I don't want a 3700lb car. Who the hell does? The mazda rx8 is the best all around car to put a Ls engine in next to a corvette. It's light, it handles well, and has a ridiculous aftermarket for every single part of the car. Also it has 4 seats. Which the s2k doesn't have, the sky doesn't have, the solstice doesn't have, the miata doesn't have, and the corvette doesn't have. I do want to be able to have a high horsepower sports car that's light and I can put my kids car seat in the back.

A running and driving rx8 can be had for as low as 3000 if your willing to wait out the right engine and trans combo sometimes when people get hard up you can pick up a ls1 with t56 and wiring for 1500. You could do all the fab work yourself if your able to. You can pick up unused swap kits for a reduced cost from people who never got out of r and d. A local shop can do the driveshaft. Wiring can all be done yourself as well. Now at this point people will say some people can't fab and as one people can't wire. I will respond "stick to Hondas" only because if all they can do are basics they should stay with a basic car.

I had a v8 supra and I will say that swap was done at home with no kits. The swap had zero issues, upon selling the car to another kid he sold the motor and transmission to put a toyota engine back in it. Today because of another failed project that car sits in a scrap yard. Total swap was done with less then 1000$ but it was a 350 rocket and turbo transmission.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Ahhh no . You got that very wrong . We actually like rotary engines and consider it the soul of the car .

LiveWire

iTrader: (1)

There will always be nay-sayers. It is best just to do what you want and listen to the people who seem most level headed.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Here we go again.

Someone else that thinks the swap can be completed for cheap.

I can find plenty of Corvette listings for under the price of an actual complete LS swap. Most of them even have warranties.




So you are still in the bottom left of this chart then:

05rx8problems

But Im not saying that if people only know the basics they shouldn't try new things. Just ask before do. That's all this forum is here to help people learn.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Actually, that's not why the forum is here.

But, even if we agree with you for a moment, that education can be in many forms, and could easily not be the education you expect. 12 years of RX-8 history has proven that swaps are never as cheap as people think, and that literally every single person that has shown up assuming that it is is making the assumption that they have better skills than any of the hundreds of people before them.

And every single one gets tripped up in the end by something they didn't expect, and virtually none ever succeed.

If you think that the forum is here to learn, perhaps open your eyes and ears to EVERYTHING, rather than just what you want to hear.


I don't expect you will do that. In the world of swaps, no one ever does.

05rx8problems

We as in your speaking for everyone. This isn't a rotary forum, this is a mazda rx8 forum. There are forums out there for the rotary specifically, no matter what it's in. Whether its a john Deere, a war ship, a car, a plane, or anything else they have been stuck in, in the last 30 plus years or whatever.

I like the rotary engine, it's a great idea and a amazing engine. Unfortunately right now it's not the best engine in the world, it's actually far from it. There are more amazing uses for it then driving to work everyday. Like racing. These engines are high revving and should be used the way they are designed not run 5 miles to work and back every day being drove into the ground.

Will I take my car to the track? Probably wether it has a Pistons or rotars. But it'll get at least 5k miles in between or more. If it was a track only car I would buy my friends 3 rotor from him and it would get raced, rebuilt, and taken care of all the time like it deserves.

05rx8problems

But that's exactly it, I'm here and im responding. If I wasn't listening I woudln't be responding. I know how people feel on both sides of this story. But here is the thing the most popular consensus may be what is believed, doesn't mean it's true.

At one time the world was flat, well that's what everyone believed.

I'm not saying swaps are gold, I'm not saying they are super easy. But what I saying is quit blaming the swap for people's ignorance. That is all. Wethere they are adding Rotar's or Pistons. It's not the technology or the metal. It's people. That's all I'm saying.

Only reason I commented was I'm sick of people acting like "swap" is some sort of plague that wrecks cars.

I'm sure there are plenty of rx8s out there with Ls engine in them that haven't had any problems and continue to run this day. Just like hinsons. I'm also sure there are rx8s out there that got a swap, then had it removed and sold. Then the car would have been sold again, then a new swap or rotary.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

No one here is blaming swaps for people's ignorance. We are blaming people's ignorance for failed swaps. And yes, the history of the RX-8 swaps is simply that it wrecks the car as a result. Very very very very few swaps are ever completed. So what does that actually say?

Your assumptions of what is actually out there isn't very well founded. It's a pretty close community, we hear about such stuff rather easily.

05rx8problems

Again it depends what people think cheap is?

I can't buy a low mileage ls2 corvette for under 20k.
I can put a Ls2 engine in a car for a hell of a lot less then 20k and I'm sure a lot of people here can.

But again I'm not actually on here to bash anyone. Looks like the popular consensus has been decided here and o will just be hanged up on regardless of what is right or wrong. It's weird that I'm under the Frankenstein part of the forum, and most of the people here are against it... Logic

05rx8problems

Not everyone that owns a rx8 is on here. Not everyone the swaps engines is on here. I don't even have a facebook. I didn't come here because I own a rx8 I came here so I could get some parts and some measurements. I swapped a v8 into a supra. I'm not on any supra forums, and I didn't have any friends with supras. I bought my rx8 from a friend who has zero friends with rx8s and also was not a member here.

BigCajun

iTrader: (1)

I agree, count me as one of the 'We'.
Since I have owned mine, (2 1/2 years) I have gained an even greater appreciation for the qualities and characteristics of the rotary.
The RX8 was designed with the rotary as the heart and soul of the platform.
Replacing it with a piston driven engine diminishes the unique, distinctive machine that it is, and turns it into just another car.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

It's just a location of the forum for swaps. Most people participating here are participating in all other areas of the forum too.


And "cheap" for what most people think, yourself included, is under $20k for the swap.

As I noted earlier, off the shelf parts that already have the R+D to do a 100% complete swap in the much simpler Miata chassis total $17k plus engine plus engine harness. What makes you think that the more complicated RX-8 chassis with zero off-the-shelf R+D parts would be cheaper? Even if you actually could do every bit of the labor yourself.

Looking at Cars.com, unwrecked 2005-2006 Corvettes with the LS2 are rather plentiful in the $16k-17k range.

So yes, buying a Corvette is cheaper than trying to swap the engine into an RX-8.

We keep challenging people to prove us wrong, and so far, none has.


We will attempt to correct your misperceptions, yes. If you show up and say "I've got $30,000 to swap an LS2 in, and I'm starting with all top notch R+D", you won't find anyone arguing that you can't. But instead, everyone shows up with $1,500 and says that they can do it for cheap. So yeah, history proves that they can't do it, and we point that out.

05rx8problems

Forgive my picture 2009 was way before I had a smart phone. Took this pic when I was switching from a point ignition to a standard.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Damn son, that install is clean as f#$k. Nice attention to detail. Mil spec wiring I see, nice.