bose

iTrader: (5)

Really great info, very useful...if you ever want to Frankenstein something ludicrous together.

kickerfox

The Northstar also fits as far as I know. -shrug- Man, tough croud here tonight. So only LSx, BMW, and xJZ swaps are acceptable?

That's what modifying is all about!

Mr_Pieper

It doesn't matter how much information you have if it's all random and useless.

bose

iTrader: (5)

Modifying implies that you are making it better.

Only acceptable swap is one that gets done.

kickerfox

I guess you missed the first few posts...totally random I know.

Modifying means altering. "Better" is an opinion...and in my opinion, it's better. You can't argue that fact so quit trying. My opinion is that 250-350lbft of torque is better then 159lbft and a $500 engine is cheaper to replace then a $1500 engine but hey, that's just my opinion.

Moving on...

The center of the crank on the 13b sits about 5.5" up off the K member. It's hard to judge from the v6 image but if the timing pully on the v6 crank is 2~3" in diameter, I'd judge about 2~3" to the bottom of the block. I need at least 2" for the oil pickup tube so 5.5" from the center of the crank to the bottom of the oil pan (at the front) doesn't seem like an issue. This translates into the crank centerline being close to the same position at the 13b. The front of the accessory pully (of the v6) is 22" from the rear of the engine. If I put the case/trans split right at the firewall, that put the crank pully 3.5" into the steering rack's motor. A hydraulic rack will be much smaller but it will still have to be lowered slightly. This is going to cause a touch more toe-in during suspension compression. I don't believe it will be too severe.

Pardon my paintbrush doodle. The other image shows the goofy oil filter mount. That will be removed. The stock oil pan isn't as deep as I had thought and may work fine as-is.

firecran

iTrader: (3)

OP, G/L with your build, but your not going to get much praise here on a rotary site.






seems fitting...








Results and not a bunch of bla bla bla, might quite the crowd






.

kickerfox

Results in 5 days? The results of my research are already clear. Patience young grasshopper. Remember, measure twice, destroy your car once.

X7rotor

iTrader: (2)

There are 6 pages of v6 information...if i wanted this i would have stuck with the 3g threads. But instead your here as. Izuzu rep in my eyes. Close this thread until something is done like someone sId before you post wanting this and that but want that to go along with that. Ever heard the phrase you can have your cake and eat it to? Thats not the case here. If you wanted a v6 coupe you should have gottem a 350. But then youll think that motor doesn't provide revs And stick a rotory in it.

(This is where i expect about two paragraphs stating feom you the vqover9000 will rev with bla bla bla)

kickerfox

If everyone said nothing until their cars were finished, car forum sites would wind up being a boring tech support site or cardomain. We'd have 100 threads on how to polish headlights and starting issues. I personally love reading build threads and seeing the solutions people come up with for various problems. You can choose not to read the thread just as those who are interested can choose to read it.

btw it's 3 pages of info and 3 pages of people complaining about it.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

ok-everyone--lets give him the benefit of the doubt? I will bite....

Now we all know getting the car running with whatever engine is just work. You can do that for sure. BUT, to get the car running with engine of choice AND with all the sweet stuff--(ABS, the 8's steering etc) is the hard part.
I dont like the sound of the Isuzu engine but the sound of an engine is a personnel choice. So be it.

I can offer a few things off the top of my head:
1- The can bus system for the 2004-2008 RX8 is much different than the 2009-2011 models. Just a caution if you had planned to swap any parts etc?
2- the firewall does have rhd access holes already cut into it.
3- we do have a dual stage fuel pump that the pcm does drive. I dont know how you plan to handle fuel delivery.
4- I am assuming you are going to use the oem coolant radiator? If you do then plan on using a separate fan controller--which you probably already know. But, beware--if you plan on removing hoses? The small one on top to the small radiator nipple is notorious for breaking off the radiator nipple which causes you to either have to trash the radiator or do a some type of fix.
Also the bottom radiator hose needs a spring in the engine side of the hose. If it doesnt have one then it can collapse under severe pumping conditions.
5- the ppf in integral to the overall driveline stability--including the diff. I am not sure if you can not have a ppf.....?

there are many members on this board that know more than I and I am sure at some point they will have more to offer.

I posted after the last picture--it looks to me that you may have clearance issues with the ignition?
Where will the shifter end up?

Slidin8

Can you at least make a start?

We could talk about it till the cows come home, but results speak louder than words

It's pretty clear that you are hell bent of the Isuzu V6

Even though personally if your gonna do a v6 swap, I think you should use a VQ30DETT or a VQ35DE (if it fits, i dunno)

stickmantijuana

OP is saying he can do the swap at the cost of what members here usually pay for intake, header, and exhaust upgrade. By this logic, this swap makes sense. He will be spending about the cost of i/h/e and will be doubling the torque curve.

I wish you well. But do remember that devils are in the details. When it goes to engine swaps, some details just don't surface until you're knee deep into it, and these will cost you time & money. We just want you to be happy with the final product. If everything goes well, this will be a $2k well spent on an RX8. GL

kickerfox

1 - Using any canbus cluster will be one of the most time consuming mods. The simplest solution I can think of (off the top of my head) is driving the 8's gauges with the v6 cluster's electronics. It's easier for me to convert analog signals then it is to create a digital one from scratch. That doesn't solve the issue of keeping the digital speedometer and odometer. Aside from that, I could go with an aftermarket cluster.

2 - That hole could be used for wiring. Other then that I don't see a need.

3 - I'll check the schematic in a minute but the fuel pump isn't an issue. I'll have to add a return line since the v6 isn't a returnless system. The 8's FP relay (two of them I believe) can be made to control another FP. I'll use whatever pump the v6 had.

4 - I've read about that nipple breaking. I cut them with a knife when they are stuck on.

5 - A custom bracket will have to be fabricated to attach the PPF to the Toyota transmission. I have access to a waterjet and know enough CAD to make DXFs for jetting. Whatever the solution, I plan to keep the PPF.

What ignition issues are you talking about? The ignitor that's sitting on that ridiculously large intake? That whole intake is going to go. I don't need runners tuned for 2000rpm. The v6 itself has COP ignition.

I'm not a fan of the Isuzu tone either. The firing order is 1-2-3-4-5-6 alternating between banks. With the right header design I hope to smooth that out. Maybe some equal-length headers with true dual exhaust would sound nice. The stock v6 exhaust manifolds are the same design as an old GM v8. The ports simply fire into a cast manifold.

Mr_Pieper

It is a bunch of random stuff that describes an idea that turns an 8 into a truck that does super cool burnouts.

It has been proven over and over again that non-rotary swaps outside of Pakistan are grossly ineffective. You should see if you can go drive one of those first to see if that is what you want. A clunky car with a dash that looks like a Christmas tree isn't worth it for me.

kickerfox

Christmas tree?

EDIT - oh I get it. No that won't be acceptable.

You mean like this.

X7rotor

iTrader: (2)

This.

Many people who have driven 8s with the 1jz swap have stated the car seems unctrollable.the car isnt designed for a motor to be heavy out front you can do the math but your budget wont fix how the car will be managable after such a silly swap.

kickerfox

This is exactly the reason I avoided the iron block inline 6s. The weight isn't changed much with the v6. It's also further back then an i6. According to what I've read, the v6 is lighter by 13.4lb. 286.6lb vs 300lb. I can't find the positive numbers for the Renesis.

Here's some calculated figures for rear wheel torque. I think I have this right.

Gear----Isuzu v6 w/ Toyota R154 (4.44 r&p)----Stock RX-8 (4.44 r&p)
1-------------3607--------------------------------------------2637
2-------------2170--------------------------------------------1591
3-------------1455--------------------------------------------1153
4-------------1110--------------------------------------------833
5-------------835----------------------------------------------702
6---------------------------------------------------------------591

And the graph. RX8 in red. v6 in blue. Not too bad considering it's the same 4.44 rear end. I'd like to see a little larger spread though. Overdrive is only 300rpm lower but not bad. It's cruising the highway under 3000rpm. Good enough.

X7rotor

iTrader: (2)

ting the engine is also wider then the renesis. Its broad weight wont distribute the same as a renesis. Or do you have the answer for that as well.

And the theory of relativity?

Harlan

iTrader: (3)

Let him try. May not be your cup of tea, but at least it will be a good show. Even though it is something that nobody else will directly repeat there will probably be great info we can all learn from and apply to more conventional builds.

kickerfox

No your right. It is wider. More importantly, it's higher. It's still better then an iron 6 hanging in the nose as far as handling goes.

The theory of relativity? Easy. For every post there is an equal and opposite post. (Too bad that's Newton)

Mr_Pieper

This would work a lot better as a, "This is how and why I did this." Until then Grimm wrote it and it belongs in discussion.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

if you are going with a return system--then there is some good information on this site concerning that type conversion. Its pretty straightforward. It will be interesting to see how you incorporate the v6 fuel pump into our tank.

Glad to hear that whole top of the engine is going to go--although there is a lot of room on top of our engine before the hood. But there is not much at the firewall.

See what I have added to my engine bay just for reference:

https://www.rx8club.com/attachments/...sc-pic-001-jpg.

Swapping out the dash would be the way to handle the can bus instrument problem--although that would mean the dsc and traction control would no longer be available.

you can also swap out the s1 trans for an s2 and have further rpm reduction during cruise etc. it is bigger so your exhaust work may be affected?

Concerning handling--i will be interested in seeing how a swap such as this will actually affect the 8's handling. I do know that v6 and v8 swaps in the rx7 platform really doesnt affect the handling that much. Of course it is a different car and the oem 8 is a better handling car than the oem 7.

Will the car have air conditioning?

kickerfox

That could be. BMW, Mercedes, etc. used parts are sold at lobster prices but Isuzu parts sell at burger prices. Is $650 the retail longblock price or junkyard price?

Suspension and steering probably. I don't design suspension so I couldn't tell you what to adjust to correct for weight distribution. I just like how the car rides now and don't want to screw it up too much. It's firm yet floaty. I like how the car corners. I wouldn't know how to describe it. Effortless? I don't race cars and I'm sure a track-built Miata could easily out-maneuver an stock 8 but a Miata has great suspension for as simple as it is.

I'd like to get started as well. I mentioned the swap over on the Miata site. More of those guys are probably into v6 builds. The project may be a little more welcome there.

Chrishoky

iTrader: (9)

I commend the OP on trying to do something different. Whether it will be successful or not will remain to be seen. Keep on pushing for answers Kickerfox, Im among those who would like to see this project completed. Update us here with what you find from the miata guys. Thanks.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

fwiw, a stock Miata can outmaneuver a stock RX8

success is welcome here, after several years of numerous blowhard dreamers talking up sh-t while floundering like a toy boat in a sea storm the general attitude is GTFO until you have something worthy to post ad nauseum about. Essentially a number of people tried to offer you some sound advice based on their own experience, but your general attitude is to either get dismissive or defensive over anything that doesn't meet what you only want to hear.

Sure you'll be welcome elsewhere where nobody knows jack sh-t about RX8s and can't readily recognize your general failings and overall BS. At least in the case of the Miata a number of people have successfully installed LS1s etc. so for them it isn't just the unknown engine installing dreamer of the day starting another round of crap. Odf course it's just a little bit easier on a vehicle that doesn't have a canbus OBD2 system too.