kickerfox

Getting closer. I started cleaning out the garage yesterday. Isn't it always about that time you realise how much crap you have?

What do you suppose a 13b MSP with 73k and rough idle and the 6-speed is worth?

bse50

750$

X7rotor

iTrader: (2)

Should give me the trans as i want to do a manual swap

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

you will be able to sell it much faster if you can get a compression test done....

kickerfox

That's another $100. It's idling off the rear rotor only. Car drives fine over 2~3k rpm but I'm pretty sure it's done. I'll disassemble the engine and part it out that way. I think the pieces will help more people then it would complete.

kickerfox

Anyone here knowledgeable in transmissions and gear ratios? I'm looking into various combinations using the W58 or R154 transmissions with either the 4.44 or 4.3 r&p.

The R154 is a heavier and stronger transmission. It's also more expensive. The W58s are easier to come by, lighter, and should hold up fine behind a 6 cylinder even with mild boost. There's probably someone who'd trade me a 4.3 for my 4.44 but I don't know if the 4.30 came limited slip. The other thing to consider is the W58 has the shifter 27" from the bellhousing. I measured 27" from my firewall to the shifter in the RX-8. IMO the W58 in front of a 4.30 might work well for me but that R154 overdrive on a 4.30 looks pretty nice.

Here's what I came up with. The numbers are total reduction (gear ratio*r&p). What do you think is the best option?

I'm also not sure what ratios are available for the RX-8. I read the 6-spd uses a 4.44 and the auto uses 4.30. That's all I have to go by.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

oops-missed that your engine had a dead skip to it? How many grams of air is it pulling? If it smooths out at 2k rpm it may not be blown.
Bears a full diagnostic?. you can take a regular compression gauges reading. It is of some value.

the auto differential does not come with limited slip.

You dont want to choose your gear ratios before you know your power curve, do you?

kickerfox

Yes my car doesn't idle right at the moment. I picked it up cheap because the original owner said the dealer told him the engine was blown. 2000 miles ago, when I bought it, it was flooded. It was hard to start also but it's been starting more and more constantly lately. I came up with my own poor-mans compression test by pushing the car in gear noticing the "bumps" as each compression stroke occurred. They all felt the same and at 180deg intervals by watching paint on the crank pully. If I used a regular compression tester I could pull the schrader valve out and watch the needle bounce to see if the bounces are equal but that's the same as pushing the car in gear. No one I know has rotory test equipment. I can also hear the "woosh" of the compression strokes through the leading plug hole. They are also constant. Once it's out I'll tear it down and part it out. Then at least I'll know what's good or bad.

I can not afford to run the Isuzu engine on an engine dyno and re-engineer it or grind custom cams. In the Isuzu, the engine's torque comes on fairly soon. It's tuned as a truck engine after all. My difficulties will be getting the engine to produce power at higher rpm. The low and mid-range should be fine. Of all the info I've found on the 6VE1, I haven't been able to find a dyno graph.

ShellDude

iTrader: (12)

please just slap a GReddy on it and drive the **** out of it for the next year or two. At least then there'll be very little question as to whether or not you need a new engine.

kickerfox

16mpg is reason enough. I may not NEED a new engine but I WANT a different one.

Found a dyno run of a 6VE1. OMG 133KW!! [/sarcasm] The torque curve looks fairly flat from 2500 to 6000rpm. A whopping 3500 worth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-26puWnSa4

And here's the cold start of my car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt-5P...ature=youtu.be

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

Your engine is NOT blown old buddy. Hope that is good news.
10F---chilly --and too cold for me.
The dyno does give a good idea.....and I forget this is not a performance build--my bad.
If you are shortening the intake runners etc by making your own intake it will affect the dyno curve of course.
I think i would go with the Vw trans and it would not be worth the work and expense to swap the 4:44 to a 4:30. .

ShellDude

iTrader: (12)

16mpg in city traffic is pretty damn good.

kickerfox

For a small displacement 3000lb sportscar? Or for an RX-8? I understand it's moving 2.6L but man does it suck it up even with casual driving.

ShellDude

iTrader: (12)

Yup... it's not the casual driving the kill mpg. It's stop and go traffic. Get her out on the highway and cruise 3200+ RPM for a couple hours and you'll easily get 24-26 mpg.

kickerfox

I haven't been in stop and go traffic lately. The 16mpg I'm getting is around town and on 45-55mph country roads. I do have a questionable engine though. Something's wrong with it but I haven't figured out what. Runs ok on the road but sounds like it's idling on one rotor. The same driving in my turbo Miata I'd get about 28mpg local and 32mpg on the highway. That was with a standalone and many mods though. If I beat on it I'd only get 12-14mpg.

WingleBeast

sooo post 198 and still nothing to show for it..... we are entering all new levels.

Mr_Pieper

I only get about 17 or 18 on a regular basis on an engine that runs well. A little more with a bunch of highway. On average I see about 220 miles for 13 gallons.

cornholio135

iTrader: (2)

I am going for the fact that this will never be complete.... reminds me of the guy a few years ago that put a 383 stroker in an rx-8 and ruined the car's handling...

and by complete I mean ALL systems work after the swap (cluster, DSC, AC, etc)....

Mr_Pieper

I like to look through the last two pages of major HP and count all the unfinished swaps. This one has racked up a high post cost really quick though.

ShellDude

iTrader: (12)

One would think that you would first want to know for certain what is wrong with your existing setup prior to endeavoring to gut what is the most distinguishing characteristic of it.

Chrishoky

iTrader: (9)

Same, but usually less than 30% highway mileage.

kickerfox

There's plenty of information in this thread for those who are looking for more then just a quick fix. Try Youtube if your simply looking for entertainment. Plenty of finished motor swaps there.

If you have a legitimate question or usefull information then by all means post it.

As for the swap being "complete" (by cornholio135s definition) then no. You will likely be disapointed. My oil gauge will work and that's not what Mazda intended.

Shelldude: I think I mentioned that. It is idling on the back rotor only. I don't know why. I do know it's not plugs, coils, or wires. It almost feels electrical though. I can ease into the throttle verrrry slowly and as soon as it hit about 1200rpm the other rotor kicks in and it smooths out. I can rev it up fine and the engine will settle at 1000rpm running smooth then it drops out again and sputters at 800rpm. I bought the car with the intention of doing an engine swap. I just happened to get the original engine running.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

You have checked for spark at idle? The rx8 has a weird ignition. How do the front plugs look?
You may have a simple fix and if so the value of your engine will increase. It seems to crank fairly well.

kickerfox

There is spark at all coils at idle but unplugging the front coils while it's idling doesn't change the idle. I also tried to shoot some carb cleaner into the vac port on the front intake runner thinking maybe the front injector might be clogged. Even a very light spray caused it to load up. I also tried sucking in a capfull of ATF through that line in hopes to raise compression slightly enough to notice and there was no change in idle. All 4 plugs are new and a light shade of brown. I would expect the front plugs to look different but they didn't. If I bring the idle up a bit to say 2000rpm and hold it, unplugging both front coils causes a drop in RPM. Unplugging one at a time has no effect in rpm so it can idle off either coil when held at 2000rpm which indicates both plugs are firing.

I seem to remember my RX-7 having 2 stages to decel fuel cut. I believe it shuts off one rotor before complete fuel cut. I think the RX-8 does the same thing on decel. Is is possible that somehow it's stuck in partial decel fuel-cut when it should be idling? The ECU should know it's below the RPM threshold required for fuel-cut. CEL is off, no codes, and ironically when it's idling, the O2 voltage is sweeping away as if everything is running normally in closed loop. But if the front rotor had no fuel, it should read lean. If it had no spark, it should read rich. If I get a chance tomorrow I'll shoot a video in the daylight.

It's getting the v6 swap regardless unless someone wants to trade me a blue 8 for my silver one.

Mr. Sly

yea form some one who's tryed a swap and it turned into a money pit so and it was
13b re so yea you have done the research on a buch of crap eather go big or go home if I were u and I felt that way about rotary engeins I would sell the car and if you persue this blastfamy on a rx8 make it worth it I have seen a rb26 in a 8 that was sick but cash flow or the know how and the time to pull that off so yea suck it up work with what u got like I did and learn how to rebuild ur **** it's not that hard and oh yea the 13 b re is goin in soon