LSX/T56 Swap Build Thread..Pics inside
12-27-2011 | 02:00 PM
#51
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 389
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX
Thats correct--I have heard of someone putting an LLT v6 into his. A v6 will still have more potentional power and tq than this engine. It may make a swap easier as it may clear the front rack without a problem. This I do not know for sure, but it does seem more likely.
With the age of this chassis and the now much lower purchse price--transplants are inevidable. You cant deny this excellant chassis/steering and braking.
I know where a chassis is now that is fully caged etc for $4K. Drop the LLT in it and have a great reliable TTC car.
With the age of this chassis and the now much lower purchse price--transplants are inevidable. You cant deny this excellant chassis/steering and braking.
I know where a chassis is now that is fully caged etc for $4K. Drop the LLT in it and have a great reliable TTC car.
Rude.
12-27-2011 | 05:37 PM
#52
I divide by zero
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,192
Likes: 0
From: Spring Hill, FL
^ lol those bastards!
A year ago I would have bought that chassis for a swap in a heartbeat. But now im only two years from my GTR build, have to save the brownie points witht the wife for that one =\ If anyone in florida decides to go for this swap, id love to help turn wrenches on it
A year ago I would have bought that chassis for a swap in a heartbeat. But now im only two years from my GTR build, have to save the brownie points witht the wife for that one =\ If anyone in florida decides to go for this swap, id love to help turn wrenches on it
12-30-2011 | 09:21 AM
#54
The LLT is a 60 degree v6 with twin overhead cams and sidi. Its all aluminum ( with iron cylinder inserts) and has oil jets to the aluminum pistons. The fuel pump is driven by the cam shaft ( dual stage system) , it has dual spray fuel injectors( new concept) and it runs over 11:1 compression while using REGULAR gas. It has over 200tq available at 1K rpm and the Tq curve looks like a SC engine. It is high reving 7K with stock cam and valve train.
It bolts up to the ay6 transmission ( I think very sim1lar if not the same as ours).
Just add a set of long tube heaters--high flow cats and a true cold air intake, retune it via pcm flash and you have between 320-340 rwhp. That is proven. It will also get you close to 30 mpg on the road.
Its a great little engine. Stay tuned and you will see more and more use of it.
This chassis doesn't need the power that an LS engine can produce to be fast.
I do hope dude you will have a build thread.
It bolts up to the ay6 transmission ( I think very sim1lar if not the same as ours).
Just add a set of long tube heaters--high flow cats and a true cold air intake, retune it via pcm flash and you have between 320-340 rwhp. That is proven. It will also get you close to 30 mpg on the road.
Its a great little engine. Stay tuned and you will see more and more use of it.
This chassis doesn't need the power that an LS engine can produce to be fast.
I do hope dude you will have a build thread.
Last edited by olddragger; 12-30-2011 at 09:24 AM.
12-31-2011 | 02:16 AM
#55
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 389
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX
The LLT is a 60 degree v6 with twin overhead cams and sidi. Its all aluminum ( with iron cylinder inserts) and has oil jets to the aluminum pistons. The fuel pump is driven by the cam shaft ( dual stage system) , it has dual spray fuel injectors( new concept) and it runs over 11:1 compression while using REGULAR gas. It has over 200tq available at 1K rpm and the Tq curve looks like a SC engine. It is high reving 7K with stock cam and valve train.
It bolts up to the ay6 transmission ( I think very sim1lar if not the same as ours).
Just add a set of long tube heaters--high flow cats and a true cold air intake, retune it via pcm flash and you have between 320-340 rwhp. That is proven. It will also get you close to 30 mpg on the road.
Its a great little engine. Stay tuned and you will see more and more use of it.
This chassis doesn't need the power that an LS engine can produce to be fast.
I do hope dude you will have a build thread.
It bolts up to the ay6 transmission ( I think very sim1lar if not the same as ours).
Just add a set of long tube heaters--high flow cats and a true cold air intake, retune it via pcm flash and you have between 320-340 rwhp. That is proven. It will also get you close to 30 mpg on the road.
Its a great little engine. Stay tuned and you will see more and more use of it.
This chassis doesn't need the power that an LS engine can produce to be fast.
I do hope dude you will have a build thread.
12-31-2011 | 08:34 AM
#56
http://image.gmhightechperformance.c...e-bolt-ons.jpg
Taking into consideration that this is UNTUNED, with cats still on the car and with a heavy drivetrain parasitic lost--i think this is pretty good.
Now add car actually in motion, a larger TB, tuned and MAYBE a little headwork (exhaust side) 320-340 to the wheels should be doable.
If not it will be pretty dang close.
Taking into consideration that this is UNTUNED, with cats still on the car and with a heavy drivetrain parasitic lost--i think this is pretty good.
Now add car actually in motion, a larger TB, tuned and MAYBE a little headwork (exhaust side) 320-340 to the wheels should be doable.
If not it will be pretty dang close.
Last edited by olddragger; 12-31-2011 at 09:18 AM.
12-31-2011 | 01:20 PM
#57
That still seems like a lot of unnecessary work just for that. You could have had that and more from a Renedis a long time ago with some common sense and careful thought instead of playing teh mad I gotta be different scientist routine
12-31-2011 | 05:09 PM
#58
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 389
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX
http://image.gmhightechperformance.c...e-bolt-ons.jpg
Taking into consideration that this is UNTUNED, with cats still on the car and with a heavy drivetrain parasitic lost--i think this is pretty good.
Now add car actually in motion, a larger TB, tuned and MAYBE a little headwork (exhaust side) 320-340 to the wheels should be doable.
If not it will be pretty dang close.
Taking into consideration that this is UNTUNED, with cats still on the car and with a heavy drivetrain parasitic lost--i think this is pretty good.
Now add car actually in motion, a larger TB, tuned and MAYBE a little headwork (exhaust side) 320-340 to the wheels should be doable.
If not it will be pretty dang close.
There's no way you're going to get to 320rwhp. I don't know if you've been following what's happening with head designs on the recent GM motors, but out of the gate, they are DAMN good now. Folks are getting very little gains from just heads without going to a bigger cam, or in the case of the DOHC LLT, cams. They apparently don't even have aftermarket camshafts for the LLT.
The point is, as Team described, I can't see a reason for going through all the trouble of doing a swap, and only get what a properly turbo'd Renesis will get, even if it will fit just a little better than an LSx.
The LSx's are the gold standard. You can't beat those engines in naturally aspirated performance/cost/reliability/mod-friendliness. Can't. The objective clearly is to swap in an LSx without trading off the RX8's handling attributes.
01-01-2012 | 08:06 PM
#59
275 with just headers and a cold air intake is what I am seeing posted on 87 octane gas.
You are right that you dont want to start changing cams on a dohc engine--lol.
The gain on the heads seem to be on the exhaust side only. You are right that intake side is pretty good.
It just depends on how far you want to go.
If the LLT will bolt to our trans that will be a big plus as the s2 trans can take that level of power without a problem. By far most people will be well satisfied with a little over 300hp to the wheels.
Reliability is a word that is not synonymous with the rennie. Even when you pet it often.
If I had a choice for about the same cost---it would be a hard choice.
Got to be honest.
You are right that you dont want to start changing cams on a dohc engine--lol.
The gain on the heads seem to be on the exhaust side only. You are right that intake side is pretty good.
It just depends on how far you want to go.
If the LLT will bolt to our trans that will be a big plus as the s2 trans can take that level of power without a problem. By far most people will be well satisfied with a little over 300hp to the wheels.
Reliability is a word that is not synonymous with the rennie. Even when you pet it often.
If I had a choice for about the same cost---it would be a hard choice.
Got to be honest.
01-01-2012 | 08:16 PM
#60
275 with just headers and a cold air intake is what I am seeing posted on 87 octane gas.
You are right that you dont want to start changing cams on a dohc engine--lol.
The gain on the heads seem to be on the exhaust side only. You are right that intake side is pretty good.
It just depends on how far you want to go.
If the LLT will bolt to our trans that will be a big plus as the s2 trans can take that level of power without a problem. By far most people will be well satisfied with a little over 300hp to the wheels.
Reliability is a word that is not synonymous with the rennie. Even when you pet it often.
If I had a choice for about the same cost---it would be a hard choice.
Got to be honest.
You are right that you dont want to start changing cams on a dohc engine--lol.
The gain on the heads seem to be on the exhaust side only. You are right that intake side is pretty good.
It just depends on how far you want to go.
If the LLT will bolt to our trans that will be a big plus as the s2 trans can take that level of power without a problem. By far most people will be well satisfied with a little over 300hp to the wheels.
Reliability is a word that is not synonymous with the rennie. Even when you pet it often.
If I had a choice for about the same cost---it would be a hard choice.
Got to be honest.
01-01-2012 | 11:50 PM
#61
couldn't possibly have anything to do with the choices, decisions, and thought processes the various owners have applied ....
275 with just headers and a cold air intake is what I am seeing posted on 87 octane gas.
You are right that you dont want to start changing cams on a dohc engine--lol.
The gain on the heads seem to be on the exhaust side only. You are right that intake side is pretty good.
It just depends on how far you want to go.
If the LLT will bolt to our trans that will be a big plus as the s2 trans can take that level of power without a problem. By far most people will be well satisfied with a little over 300hp to the wheels.
Reliability is a word that is not synonymous with the rennie. Even when you pet it often.
If I had a choice for about the same cost---it would be a hard choice.
Got to be honest.
You are right that you dont want to start changing cams on a dohc engine--lol.
The gain on the heads seem to be on the exhaust side only. You are right that intake side is pretty good.
It just depends on how far you want to go.
If the LLT will bolt to our trans that will be a big plus as the s2 trans can take that level of power without a problem. By far most people will be well satisfied with a little over 300hp to the wheels.
Reliability is a word that is not synonymous with the rennie. Even when you pet it often.
If I had a choice for about the same cost---it would be a hard choice.
Got to be honest.
01-02-2012 | 08:16 AM
#62
Ouch! Lol---Ok blow off valve king.
You certainly have had good life out of your FI set up. Hats off to you.
Engine swaps can be cool, and it is kinda fun figuring out what will work and what will not. I am not a purist by any means. heck, the second car i ever owned I threw a big block Chevy in it. It ended up a very good car.
Choices and decisions? Heck no--this is impulsive to the max.
You certainly have had good life out of your FI set up. Hats off to you.
Engine swaps can be cool, and it is kinda fun figuring out what will work and what will not. I am not a purist by any means. heck, the second car i ever owned I threw a big block Chevy in it. It ended up a very good car.
Choices and decisions? Heck no--this is impulsive to the max.
01-02-2012 | 11:39 AM
#63
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 421
Likes: 0
From: Eastern Europe
I went the LLT way for several reasons, reliability, much better fuel economy,a longer engine life,it makes good torque and Hp out of the crate. Yes, it is heavier than the MSP, but lighter than an LS. Unfortunately the 8's trans will not bolt to the LLT without an adapter,and the standard 6mt for the LLT is prone to 2nd gear problems.
01-02-2012 | 08:53 PM
#64
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 389
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX
I went the LLT way for several reasons, reliability, much better fuel economy,a longer engine life,it makes good torque and Hp out of the crate. Yes, it is heavier than the MSP, but lighter than an LS. Unfortunately the 8's trans will not bolt to the LLT without an adapter,and the standard 6mt for the LLT is prone to 2nd gear problems.
01-03-2012 | 12:16 AM
#65
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 421
Likes: 0
From: Eastern Europe
Yes, I bought a new LLT and auto, I'm in the process of modifying the oil filter assembly,designing an adapter for the Mazda 6mt. As I have stated previously, this will be a long drawn out process as in this country, swaps like this dont happen,parts are non existent,it's not like I can run down to a hose shop and ask for -8 fittings and hose.Everything has to come from out of country.
01-03-2012 | 12:57 AM
#66
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 389
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX
Yes, I bought a new LLT and auto, I'm in the process of modifying the oil filter assembly,designing an adapter for the Mazda 6mt. As I have stated previously, this will be a long drawn out process as in this country, swaps like this dont happen,parts are non existent,it's not like I can run down to a hose shop and ask for -8 fittings and hose.Everything has to come from out of country.
And, dude, you're in Croatia, right? I would imagine trying to fabricate an adapter like that would be a pain no matter where you are.
01-04-2012 | 09:59 PM
#68
The forgestar be with you
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,237
Likes: 0
From: Miami, Florida
The LLT is a 60 degree v6 with twin overhead cams and sidi. Its all aluminum ( with iron cylinder inserts) and has oil jets to the aluminum pistons. The fuel pump is driven by the cam shaft ( dual stage system) , it has dual spray fuel injectors( new concept) and it runs over 11:1 compression while using REGULAR gas. It has over 200tq available at 1K rpm and the Tq curve looks like a SC engine. It is high reving 7K with stock cam and valve train.
It bolts up to the ay6 transmission ( I think very sim1lar if not the same as ours).
Just add a set of long tube heaters--high flow cats and a true cold air intake, retune it via pcm flash and you have between 320-340 rwhp. That is proven. It will also get you close to 30 mpg on the road.
Its a great little engine. Stay tuned and you will see more and more use of it.
This chassis doesn't need the power that an LS engine can produce to be fast.
I do hope dude you will have a build thread.
It bolts up to the ay6 transmission ( I think very sim1lar if not the same as ours).
Just add a set of long tube heaters--high flow cats and a true cold air intake, retune it via pcm flash and you have between 320-340 rwhp. That is proven. It will also get you close to 30 mpg on the road.
Its a great little engine. Stay tuned and you will see more and more use of it.
This chassis doesn't need the power that an LS engine can produce to be fast.
I do hope dude you will have a build thread.
On a side note how much lighter is the LLT (if it is lighter) than an LS2 or 3 or whatever? Are we talking 100 lbs? I am guessing less. I may have to agree the LS is more desirable but the fact that it gets in the way of the steering colom is a big no no. I wanna see this work!
I absolutely ador the LS series motors.
01-05-2012 | 12:05 PM
#70
The forgestar be with you
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,237
Likes: 0
From: Miami, Florida
Are we talking just the engine or with accesories attached?
Found it:
I read that the weight of the 13b with all the trimmings = 388.4 lbs. See post from "jimlab" for details.
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=250486 - Rx7 forum
- I am confused though at what exactly is included in that weight cause the guy was a little erratic is his explanation of what he weighed. Perhaps someone could explain it better.
Now some guy on the Rx7 forum claims the following for the LS1 with all the trimmings...
"Got the LS-1 motor weighed today with all the accesories attached (A/C, P/S, Alt, wiring harness, ECM; etc. Believe it or not it weighed in at 481-LBS !!! I believe a T56 (6 speed) weighs around 140lbs."
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=255423 - from "gnrx7"
So total is = 621 lbs?
This is engine and tranny compared but I realized the turbo and intercooler on the Rx7 were not taken into account which I read weigh like 180 to 200lbs. Sounds like both setups practically weigh the same...Give or take like 30 lbs (aka battery).
EDIT:
I reread the post and it seems the Tranny was not included in the figure for the 13B. The tranny = 112lbs which brings the total to 500.4lbs. For a gran total difference of 120.6lbs? Is that right? Or am I reading this wrong?
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=250486 - Rx7 forum
- I am confused though at what exactly is included in that weight cause the guy was a little erratic is his explanation of what he weighed. Perhaps someone could explain it better.
Now some guy on the Rx7 forum claims the following for the LS1 with all the trimmings...
"Got the LS-1 motor weighed today with all the accesories attached (A/C, P/S, Alt, wiring harness, ECM; etc. Believe it or not it weighed in at 481-LBS !!! I believe a T56 (6 speed) weighs around 140lbs."
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=255423 - from "gnrx7"
So total is = 621 lbs?
This is engine and tranny compared but I realized the turbo and intercooler on the Rx7 were not taken into account which I read weigh like 180 to 200lbs. Sounds like both setups practically weigh the same...Give or take like 30 lbs (aka battery).
EDIT:
I reread the post and it seems the Tranny was not included in the figure for the 13B. The tranny = 112lbs which brings the total to 500.4lbs. For a gran total difference of 120.6lbs? Is that right? Or am I reading this wrong?
Last edited by cavemancan; 01-05-2012 at 12:32 PM.
01-05-2012 | 12:50 PM
#71
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 421
Likes: 0
From: Eastern Europe
Fully dressed, I assume minus flywheel or converter, This was from wikki, so I dont know how accurate the numbers are. I will endeavor to locate a scale and weigh it myself, may take a while.
01-31-2012 | 04:11 PM
#72
I divide by zero
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,192
Likes: 0
From: Spring Hill, FL
Hey guys,
I know it has been awhile since an update, but I have been really busy with school and working to get some more money to drop into my project. However, I did order and pay for the Hinson Motorsports LSX V8 Mounting kit, so hopefully soon after Christmas it will get delivered. If it does I will post pics and a little build thread showing there kit. Just in case anyone else is using a third party to get there mounting equitment for an Ls swap you can see it here.
Happy Holidays,
Joey
I know it has been awhile since an update, but I have been really busy with school and working to get some more money to drop into my project. However, I did order and pay for the Hinson Motorsports LSX V8 Mounting kit, so hopefully soon after Christmas it will get delivered. If it does I will post pics and a little build thread showing there kit. Just in case anyone else is using a third party to get there mounting equitment for an Ls swap you can see it here.
Happy Holidays,
Joey
