Phil's 8

iTrader: (3)

Yea, that's it - initiation into the FI Gang.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

torque wins races---look at the new diesels out there
A member of our club says HP is equal to how hard you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you.
But also remember cars dont win races--drivers/teams do.
olddragger

morkusyambo

I'll chime in with my daily driving experience. There is no need to ever take the car above 6k rpms in the city because if I did that I would be going over the speed limit. The boost is so linear, the car feels like it builds power through the power band same as stock. I chose the S/C kit because i've ridden in many different cars with S/C and have a soft spot for them. I don't race on the street, but I have done a "comparo" w/an american car that had at the least 400+ ft lb of torque, and we got very familiar with each others face for a good 30 seconds.

morkusyambo

I don't know if this is relevant or not, but my dad designed a S/C kit(twin screw) back in the 80's for the 4.0 jeeps. Prior to this the company he worked for had allready developed a centrifical type S/C for the same Jeep. The two jeeps in this instance were identical as can be(year, mileage, dyno-obtained #'s, etc..)My dad's boss was asking him..."What's the point of developing this twin-screw kit when it makes identical power and identical boost to the centrifical?" (They actually made the EXACT same #'s on the dyno) They decided after much brilliant deliberation to take them to a "track" and run them against each other. They did 0 to whatever runs, and rolling starts. Then they swapped jeeps and did it all over again. Then they swapped again going in the opposite direction. EVERY single time the twin screw jeep would jump ahead 2 car lenghts and maintain the gap for the entire run. Why??? Because it made its boost sooner than the centrifical.

Now i'm not sure what would happen with a Pettit S/C vs. a greddy turbo. But i'd guess the gap would be closer to 4 car lengths than 0.......HAHAHAHhaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!

Let the games begin.

morkusyambo

When I say identical, I mean they made the exact same horsepower # w/5 lbs of boost. The dyno charts were not identical, but the peak # was. The centrifical was a Paxton and the twin-screw was a Sprintex. The twin-screw makes its boost at a lower shaft speed. Ray, could you give me the link to the Procharger/Opcon thread so I don't have to search??

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

as far as road tracking there is one hard and fast rule---there is no replacement for displacement----period. Sure you can mimic displacement with FI etc but you then start to make the car more complex. In doing that the car becomes less reliable and it STILL will not be like a bigger displacement engine.
What do you think would be better--a two rotor with twin turbos etc or a 3 rotor with one turbo? Given that both engines would have as identical output as possible?
olddragger
But also that bigger displacement engine doesnt have that pretty "whine" like we do either

munche187

this is getting to technical.
I say we try and assemble a track day some where. Where we can all hang out beat our chests and have fun with our cars.

morkusyambo

I'm down for that. I'm only around 5 hrs away from you florida guys.

morkusyambo

I'll find out if they were A/T. If they were, then I assume you're referring to the torque convertor enabling the turbo to build boost prior to launch? That is the reason why the A/T 911 turbo is quicker from a dead stop than the M/T.

munche187

We would need about 20 cars. The price would range from $150-$200 per car.

If there is enough interest I will start looking into it for maybe Jan or later. So the weather is still cool.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

i enjoy friendly tech discussions--I sure learn a lot.
Are yall talking about road racing or drag racing? As you know 2 totally different worlds.
Less weight is ALWAYS good--certainly agree with that. hp/lb ratio is a formula one cannot argue with---look at the Lotus. Also with technology weight now is not automatically associated with bigger displacement--look at the LS 6 engine.
FI makes a power plant more complex--more parts =more complexity. FI cars are more prone to heat related problems(i speak more in the road track courses enviroment), blown head gaskets, blown injectors, various hoses that can come loose etc. Not to say that an FI car cant be made strong and consistant--it can, but it takes more effort to do so. And it requires more monitoring.
Modified automatics will always be faster than a manual in a drag race. Always. All other things being equal. Human beings lack the reaction times and consistency that autos give.
This has the makings of a really good event. One suggestion --at Roebling Road track, there is a seat time association that gives a lot of track time for about $250. It's in Savannah Ga--maybe mid way for a lot of Carolina/Ga folks?
It would be a hell of a Christmas present/event!
olddragger

munche187

we would like to try and do both for ***** and giggels

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

I also just heard of a track in gainesville Fla.
OD

munche187

I say we just visit Phil in Vegas.ehehehehe

shinka213

did somebody say Vegas???

Phil's 8

iTrader: (3)

Good, I'll make arangements for the race. Love to have ya. You know if we play our cards right we can just say

Yea - Vegas - Name another place like it!!!!

morkusyambo

Man. I wish I had waited till now to buy my kit instead of taking a chance 4 months ago. I would've had slightly better installation instructions and saved $400 off the price of the ECU reflash.

munche187

But it would have been 4 months with out it.

qtwre

iTrader: (1)

This supercharger consumes a lot of my time at work while I think about it. Something occurred to me though... I assumed this kit comes with an intercooler but it doesn't. So why does this kit cost as much as it does? Is the supercharger unit just that expensive?

Also, I've been searching the YouTube to try to get a sense of what kind of acceleration this product offers but I can't find anybody that has the Stage II CS kit. Has anybody bought it yet?

edit: I just keep learning... What is the Charge Chiller system? Does that come with it?

*sigh* I sound like an idiot.

Phil's 8

iTrader: (3)

Yes the s/c kit comes with a innercooler it's just called something else, some fancy words. Pay attention to the signatures on the owners threads. Right now that's all that's available. Stage 1 and Stage III are not ready yet.

munche187

I'll pm you some links

qtwre

iTrader: (1)

Thanks munche.

I checked out the installation pdf and it looks like some integrated air/water intercooler. Alright then!

Has anybody heard about what will change in Stage III?

Phil's 8

iTrader: (3)

Too early to tell - pully for sure, flash? plus you getting close to that magic number where the current fuel input may need changing - Cam's still working on it.

munche187

StageIII
Will still use the same compressor with a smaller pulley bigger oil coolers and heat exchangers and adding a rotor. hehehehe

Reni-b

Moon Assad

Well, its getting closer to D-day of me heading up north. I need everyone whos getting the flash to call the shop on Monday.