Vampyr

First let me say that I've been lurking these forums for a few weeks and absolutely love them. Everyone here not only really knows their stuff but are super helpful and there's really no flaming. It's nice to hang out with adults (or at least people who act like 'em)

Now on to my story/problem.

After a lot of research and priceshopping I went to buy my new 8 on Christmas Eve. Things didn't work out b/c the dealership closed so I missed out on my new Christmas present for myself. On Friday after Christmas my deal with the primary dealership I was working with fell through, I got pissed and drove around town to another one who had the car I wanted at the price I wanted.

So I close the deal last Friday - Black GT M/T...I love it. UNFORTUNATELY it was late in the evening on Friday and the "normal carwash guy" had left. Now I've seen plenty of posts on here about not letting the dealer wash your car. However I was assured that they were going to do a good job with nice soft cloth, right out in front where I could see it.

The car was really dirty - bird droppings and the like on it. It really needed a good wash and I didn't have the heart to take her home all filthy like that.

I'm signing the paperwork and stroll outside. Lo and behold the SALESGUY himself is out there...I offered to do it for him...he said don't worry about it he'd take care of it. I ignored my instinct to tell him not to and went inside.

To make a long story short when I came back out 20 mins later my new Black 8 had NOT been washed...instead the idiot sprayed it down with water, and WITHOUT USING ANY SOAP OR ATTEMPTING TO WASH IT, used a Chamois to dry it.

As you can imagine the Chamois was the equivalent of rough sandpaper. It picked up all the bird gunk and crap that didn't get properly washed off the car, and drug/scraped it all over the car. Before I could stop him, he had scratched the car in at least a dozen places, mostly on the hood but on the roof and sides as well. The car is black so it REALLY shows. I wanted to cry, but I had already done the paperwork and I swear to god no other dealer seemed to have the exact same color / car combo that I wanted.

Long story short: the manager signs a letter indicating he guarantees my full satisfaction, and everyone was super nice and apologetic. I could tell they all felt bad and to be honest they struck me as "fair" people (I'm a Sales Manager myself and this did not strike me as the typical car-salesman-crooks we're all used to). I took the car back on MONDAY to get it fixed up (they didn't give me any hassles but the service guy candidly admitted he'd never seen anything like this before - he was horrified) and here it is Tuesday night. I'm driving a friggging Dodge Neon rental and I get the news today from the dealership that my 8 won't be ready until FRIDAY (after New Years)!!

Apparently they tried to fix the scratches themself, couldn't, so they sent it to one of the "best shops in town" (their words) to have it professionally buffed and the scratches removed. It came back today and they tell me that a few were still visible so they sent it back to the shop.

I found it really odd that a Mazda dealership can't fix paint scratches on a Mazda themselves, but whatever.

My dilemma: They swear up and down that the buffing and fixing of the scratches won't screw up the clear coat protection. I'm certain this isn't true. I'm also really frustrated to have a week off and not be able to enjoy my new ride. Part of my excitement with this holiday vacation was knowing I'd have a full 1.5 weeks to tool around in my new ride before hitting the daily rush hour grind in the new year. It also was my time to bone up on my clutch skills (still a little rough).

They've been courteous, apologetic, friendly, and they rented me a car. I even spoke to the owner himself and I must admit everyone seems to be doing all they can to ensure my complete satisfaction.

So really my questions are:

1. Are they lying to me about stripping off the protection/clearcoating with all this rigorous buffing and whatever else they may be doing to fix the scratches (anyone know what they're doing? I can't get a clear explanation of exactly how they fix this stuff)

2. What should I try to get out of this? I mean to me this is incredibly serious...should I angle for a spoiler or something? I'm without my ride for the holidays and they ruined my baby.

3. I was already planning to buy the Zaino Kit, which I have now done (those guys should pay everyone on these forums who gives such glowing recommendations!). If I can get the car visually looking fine (even if they screw the clearcoat) is Zaino going to bail me out of this jam if I put on a few layers ASAP?

Thanks in advance for any advice, and thanks to all of this who make this a Forum that I'm literally excited to join!

- Sleepless in Miami

loco4rx8

Wow, I'm sorry to hear about this. But I'm glad they seem to be trying to rectify the situation.

Bottom line is - if you are not happy with the results after they're done with it, you should not have to take the car. If you never left the lot with it before they messed it up, I think they should have to get you a new one. Sounds to me like it didn't pass your final inspection before taking it over.

Now, if you can live with the scratches, you can certainly try to get an added accessory out of it for your "pain and suffering."

The way I've always heard it (and from my recent body shop experience), if they do a LOT of polishing and buffing to try to remove the scratches it can remove the clear coat. It all depends on how deep the scratches are and how far they have to go down to remove them.

What I don't know is: How hard is it to get another application of clear coat, at least in the affected areas?

Vampyr

Thanks for your quick reply and sympathy. Your thoughts pretty well mirror mine. How will I know if they grind off the clearcoat? Can I obligate them to put a new coat on? Is that sort of thing even possible?

You're right though, hindsight being what it is, I probably should have nixed the deal on the spot. But man I was just dying to get this over with - it was 2 days later then I wanted to buy the car and I'd been at various dealerships for nearly 10 hours at that time. I'm a rational guy but I was at my frustration limit and I hope I don't wind up regretting that for a long time.

I just can't believe my bad luck. UGH.

khoney

Sorry to hear about your troubles. That's why I sent my dealer an email stating that the car was not to be prepped in any way, except for whatever was required by law. I did let them take the paper off, but no wash, wax or interior prep was done. Took it home and Zaino'ed it.

WHealy

Vampyr,

I don't know dude. If you signed for the car, I think it's yours. If the dealership says they will do whatever it takes and you're not satisfied, I'd ask to be released from the vehicle and get a new one. I woulnd't mess with accessories. But that will be an uphill battle. Because what they really said was anything but that. You could always ask for the vehicle to be repainted in it's entirity.

But as for the clear coat, I've always heard that if you work with someone that knows what they are doing, they can resolve the issue without damaging it (i.e. going too deep) I've often wondered about the rear clear coating the vehicle too, but have never heard of anyone doing that.

Be professional, but demand you get the vehicle as it was when you signed for it.

QuantumTheory08

...I hate to say this about myself. I'm so paranoid when washing my car, I will only use reverse osmosis water or distilled water to clean, wash off the soap, and then polish my car.

When you wash a (black car especially) this way - there are no spots while it drys. I start with a spray bottle mixed with Zaino wash soap and literally spray bottle the whole car with this mixture (of course it drys, but it has time to work on loosening the dirt). Then I start from the top down, using a big cotton towel and the clean water to get the dirt off. IF, for any reason, I think my towel is getting too much dirt on it that could scratch the paint, I get a new towel to keep cleaning. Some areas (on the sides of the car, just behind the wheels) can have quite a bit of grime. Just to wash the car and not even dry it, I might use six to eight towels.

After I've cleaned off all the dirt with soap. I use yet another towel with clean water to wash any soap or minor residue off. This is when you'll know your car is clean; any spots of water that are left while your rinsing off the rest of the car, some of those spots will evaporate and leave no residue spots. It's really something to see the first time you clean. I may need two to three towels to wash off the soap. I do not want any dirt scratching the paint; that's the whole idea.

As for clear coat, "symantics" of what your describing in my opinion is: the final painted coat over the black paint - done during manufacturing of the car by Mazda, in Japan - not some cheap "clear coat" application by the dealership. Stay away from them putting anything on your car. -"Just say no."

Zaino products are designed to become integral parts of the paint and "helpers" in filling and hiding scratches (helping and protecting the clear coat). Z2 wax and/or Z5 wax may need to be applied two to three times each, to get the final result. Working with Zaino takes some time, but I've found that no one will ever take the time to do it right, unless that is their profession, and even then, sometimes they still do a crummy job and your paying for nothing. That is why Zaino products are so nice to use yourself. Once you get the hang of it, no one will do as nice a job as yourself. Z6 wax is a nice "in between" wax to apply and protect your car when you don't have enough time for the two or three coats of Z2 and/or Z5.

Try Zaino with RO water or buy eight gallons of distilled waters with a spray bottle and lots of towels. I haven't regretted it yet.

Check it out.

-jcs-

Vampyr

That's a pretty good summary. I spoke to one of the "Directors" at the dealership since my post. So far I have avoided getting nasty or angry and stuck to the basics of just wanting my car the way it is supposed to be. I've hinted at accessories but maybe you're right - if they think I'm just out for something free this could change the tone of the entire process.

And ultimately I did sign for it, so if I push them into playing hardball, I'm only creating more of a headache for myself.

Still hoping someone can comment on the clearcoating thing. They insist that their professional body shop won't grind it all off....but honestly, how would I even know if that's true? Can one visually or otherwise tell when the clearcoat is worn thin or worn off in certain areas?

Vampyr

Thank you, that's what I was kinda hoping for. I will indeed decline any kind of offer for the dealership to apply more "clear coat".

And I am waiting for my Zaino stuff to arrive. BTW side note, I am in a situation where I have limited access to a water hose. I could go your spray bottle route, OR another thought I had was to maybe go to a car wash place (the kind that let you wash your own cars) and do part of the job there, maybe drive home to finish it later in my lot (and possibly help the drying process during the steps).

Is that a dumb or reasonable idea? Or should I just brave it at the car wash place for the 4-5 hours or so it takes the first time I use all the Zaino stuff?

80CuIn

Sorry to hear about your dilema. I didn't read all the post, but my feeling is that you should have them repaint the car! Don't settle for anything less. Also, give them a poor rating on their customer survey.
Don't worry about the neon, its just temporay. Lean on them as much as you can. While your dealing with the dealer try and take a friend with you when you deal with them. The two of you can gang up on them and maybe catch a few things that you may not. Remember, don't take any s**t from them. Good luck and give them hell.
Al

winebrad

I an totally dumbfounded! I read your post and just got a real anxious feeing! My one question is does this dumb#$%t still have a jop at the dealership?

Good luck and I would definately make sure the car is absolutely correct before taking posession.

Vampyr

LOL!

I know that anxious feeling you're talking about. I've had it since the moment I drove off with the car. Man I tell you, there is NO price or accessory that can replace my ruined dreams this first few days of owning the car. This should have been my wild enthusiasm and rapid heartbeat week. Instead I am in the throes of anxiety. How can you replace your first week of sheer enthusiasm at owning a beautiful car? IMHO, you can't.


I still smile when I think of my car, or during the times when I drove it the first weekend. But they evaporate the minute I step out of it to admire her and see all the awful scratches.

And yeah I think the dumb$**t still works there. I saw him on Monday as he came up to shake my hand and ask me how it was going. I felt momentarily violent but recovered quickly.

Believe it or not though I appreciate all the replies - it has made me feel a little better. Looks like I didn't just buy a car but also joined a community.

I'll keep you guys posted...

edit: spelling

Zoom2X

Buy a garden sprayer at Home Depot, they hold about a gallon and a half of water and pump up with air so all you do is pull the trigger to spray water. Or buy 2 and fill one with soap and water and one with plain water to rinse.

type-sh

Man, I have a black prelude and I can tell you first hand that if it were me I would make them find me another identicle car. They can trade or do what ever they have to. Its not like you put miles on the thing. You signed for a brand new scratch free car. Thats not what you are gonna get. Black is hard enough to keep looking good and scratch/swirl free. If the mazda paint is anything like my honda's then its only gonna be a matter of time before the waxing and duffing starts to be washed and weathered away and your less than perfect paint starts to show its ugly face. Not trying to be downer here but I've lived with black paint for almost 4 yrs now and I know whats gonna happen.

loco4rx8

Well, best of luck with whatever you do, Vampyr. It sounds like you're handling this very professionally and showing less anger than I probably would in a similar situation!

I still think that since they damaged the car, they should have to do whatever it takes to make you happy. Your decision is "what can I live with?" Are the scratches immediately visible to anyone who approaches the car, or are they smaller, fine scratches that you notice because you know they're there?

My car was hit from behind, doing paint damage to the panel behind the driver side wheel. The body shop, which has the reputation as the best in town, advised me not to have the bumper section repainted because the factory paint job is always going to be the best, longest lasting you're ever going to have, especially when dealing with a plastic body section. So, they buffed the scratches out the best they could without ruining the clear coat. There are faint scratches remaining, and no one but me would ever probably see them, but it drives me crazy because I KNOW they're there. So, I kind of know how you feel....

I'm going to try the Z5 Zaino on it and maybe a couple other products to see if I can get it any better, but my hopes aren't all that high.

Again best of luck and keep us posted!

grogiefrog

I'm really sorry to hear what happened to you. You think the salesman would know better?!

My father-in-law owns a body shop. The man is a real professional. I have had him work on my wife's two year old car twice already (repaint the hood, then the fender after someone put 43 scratches in it). He has told me that the paint jobs on new cars are very thin, just enough to cover the metal. When I bought my first car, my wife pointed out to me when we were about to drive away that it had a "hair" scratch on the front hood. The dealer was quick to take it in back to "buff it out" ("Don't worry, it will buff right out!"). As my father-in-law later told me, if a guy doesn't know what he's doing or isn't careful, he'll buff right through the clear coat and through the THIN paint. Well, that's exactly what the guy at the dealership did. I should have refused to take the car, but I didn't. The dealer promised to fix it. But whoever they had do the repair did a poor job, and there was not a thing I could do about it. He removed the clear coat all around the overly buffed spot, and didn't put the clear coat back on! It still looks bad today, like it has permanent water spots. Next summer I'm going to have my father-in-law repaint my car's hood and a couple of other scratches.

Well, my point to this is that you can only truly fix the paint by having it repainted, by a professional. But, you can never keep a new car looking new forever. I have to remind myself that every time that I get a new rock chip.

I plan on buying an RX-8 Spring of 2005. It's going to be a weekend car that I can rub with a diaper. :D

GerryL

Rubbing out scratches should really be termed rubbing down because what they are really doing is thinning the clear coat in the area to reduce the depth of the scratch. There is no way that it can be done without reducing the clear coat film thickness. It can only be done so many times before it goes through to the paint coat.

Vampyr

Thanks all. I spoke to the dealership today and they are going to add some rotary accents and free oil changes. I won't get my car until Friday.

How depressing to not have it on New Years Eve. Ah well, maybe the 1999 Dodge Neon white rental car will go over great with the ladies, eh?

In any case I will be certain to thoroughly examine the car when I get it, operating under the assumption that they most certainly rubbed off spots of clearcoat. I'll Zaino it this weekend and cross my fingers.

Should I use the Zaino formula for cars with NO clearcoat or for cars WITH clearcoat? lol

QuantumTheory08

lol with you....

....did you really want me to answer that? j/k

-jcs-

Vampyr

Kind of....

I'm only laughing to ease the pain!

Vampyr

UPDATE:

I just spoke to the dealership. It's Friday and I still don't have my car back. Now it's going to be ready around 10am tomorrow morning. That makes it almost 6 days since I left it with them (Mon-Sat) after only having it for 2 1/2.

They told me on the phone that the reason for this new delay is the body shop had to paint the hood after being unsuccessful at buffing it.

NOW I NEVER AUTHORIZED THIS and am extremely skeptical about having a hood without factory paint that has been repainted by someone other than the dealership. Of course the Mazda Service guy says it will be done right, these guys do a great job, I'll never be able to tell the difference, etc. The problem is that you usually CAN'T tell a crappy paint job for the first few years. By the time you CAN tell you've got parts of your car that are fading/wearing different than the rest and you're already screwed.

I really don't know what to do here - is it time to call a lawyer? My dealership has a "No Cooling Off" clause that was part of the purchase agreement, and the fact is I DID sign for and buy the car, but I DID NOT authorize a third-party paint job and the Due-Bill that I have signed guarantees they'll fix the scratches on the paint.

What do I do when I go in there tomorrow? Refuse to accept the car even though it's already been titled to me and demand a new one? And wait a month or so for them to get the right color / goodies that I want?

I already told the service guy I want a full rundown of what was done to the hood - what kind of paint, how many coats, what protection if any....etc.

HELP!

i3man

I have always been of the opinion that you cannot duplicate the factory paint job...at some point I think it will become noticeable that the hood was painted separately.

It's up to you and how bad you want THAT car. I'm not an attorney but if you are unhappy you probably should consult one. If you have any doubts about it now, it will manifest into more doubts later on.

Unless you're 100% happy with THAT car, do something about it now before it's too late.

RX-GR8

they had no right to go ahead and repaint the entire hood without telling you first. i agree with i3man i think its time to get legal counsel.

Vampyr

Thanks again guys. I'll post tomorrow with update.

i3man

I'm not sure if you have any friends that are attorneys but it'd be good know what your options are before you pick up the car. Who knows, it might look great. But if it does and you're happy with it, pretend like you don't like it and see if you can get lifetime free service :p

amartin

You might be able to claim "Breach of contract", if their 'We will Do' section states they will remove the scratches, and they failed to do so-- they didn't hold up to their end of the contract. Return the car.

...unless its really vague and imples somehow they can repaint it as a fix-- but removing scratches and 'repaint' in my opinion are very different.

Good luck!