DaveG

Ok guys, I have been lusting after the 8 for awhile and have become completely addicted to lurking (learning) on this board.

I'll get to the point. I assume that I am not alone in closely monitoring the ever lower price of model year 04 8's.

I propose this thread as a sort of "deal watch" in which info on incentive changes and recent purchase/lease deals made can be posted. Go ahead and brag about the great deal you got and how it happened. Watching the market evolve is fun.

Right now we know that Mazda is offering 2500 back on leases which makes the 8 quite affordable in a way. Has anyone recently taken advantage of this and feel like posting their details/story?

Personally, I am in a position where I would lease an 8 if the deal was "awesome" or too good to pass up. Otherwise I'll wait for a while. Of course, I want an 8 NOW, but I want to atleast watch prices for the next 4-6 weeks and see what happens to the prices. (Plus I need to fix a dent on my Pro 5 ) So, maybe this thread can help myself and some of our other friends on the fence of 8 ownership.

FYI, Locally, I have seen an ad from Bommarito Mazda leasing base auto 8's for $220 month with 1350 down (48 months, 12k year) and no other out of ordinary fine print.

scubacap

Don't lease a car - ever! Unless it's a four door sedan for business.
There are too many down sides to lease, least of which is the mileage restriction, and the 8 is a car you are going to want to drive...and drive...and drive.

scansyn

I just got mine with $2500 lease incentive last Friday.

Lighting Yellow, 6MT Base.

Here are the lease terms:

4 year lease with 12K per year.
Cap Cost: $22640 (including $2500 lease incentive. I think I paid ~$200 under invoice)
$500 down (for 1st payment and license fee)
$269 plus tax (= $289)
Residual: $12600, Turn-in fee: $395, Purchase Option: $13300
Money Factor: 0.0015

Mine was their showroom model, and the dealer already installed clearbra which they didn't charge (or maybe they forgot?). Mine was not a demo model, and it had ~40 miles on it. Also yesterday, I found that mine has wheel-lock, but I'm not sure whether it is a standard option for base model or not. Also I managed to get 2 free oil change coupones.

DaveG

I've read many folk's opinion on leasing the car being a bad idea, but in my case it "seems" to make sense.

Similar payment to my Pro 5 plus maybe 50-70 bucks ( Pro5 is 294/month) I'm aware of the mileage restrictions and would go for 15k/year. The cost per additional mile is 10 cents I've heard which is fine by me. Later on I'll usually have a used fun car to drive (like an old Miata)

Frankly, I expect a car payment for quite a while. Cars are my major personal luxury and I consider it a regular monthly expense just like rent or a mortgage. FYI, I used to buy and sell used cars on my own and made great spare change from that.

I actually am a business owner (small retail vitamin store) so I have my act together financially in most ways and I am concerned with building wealth.

So, assuming I expect car payments over the next ten years and am aware of the mileage restrictions and have no issues with actually "owning" the car why is it so dumb to lease a nicer car for similar payments?

My only real concern is that you are pretty tied once you lease. What if I get into financial trouble two years from now. Can you "sell" a lease privately to unload it?

(Meanwhile I'll probably make money buying the occasional great deal used car, driving it a couple months and selling it for 500-1000 profit.)

DaveG

Scansyn: That sounds like the type of deal I am talking about. 289/month is $5 less than my Protege5 payment at 0% over five years. (Should no longer be very upside down, my payoff is similar to edmunds trade-in)

Did you negotiate the purchase price and then the lease or just the lease working from the payment amount?

In other words, how hard did you work to get that deal?

Thanks for responding!!

scansyn

No negotiation at all. It was an advertised special [2 at this price, lease deal, bah bah bah..]
Went to the dealder during lunch time, test drove the car, and I signed the paper.

VikingDJ

People who say a lease is bad really aren't seeing the big picture. For most of us, it's not a good idea, but for many people, it is a good idea, especially if the downpayment and monthly fee go down enough. It offers peace of mind and no ownership, and vehicle depreciation isn't too far off from the actual total you spend after all is said and done. If you can find the right deal, leasing is a very smart move for certain people and their lifestyles. I think Mazda is getting nervous, and soon there will be an rx8 blowout, because the dealership is cluttered with them. I believe there will be a cut down on the 05 model because mazda made too many for 2004, and they thought it would sell better then it has. Get in on the 04 model after summer, and you'll find yourself getting the sweetest of all deals. For the 05 model, if they do cut down production like they should, the deals will not be there like they have been in 2004. Mazda isn't stupid. Less inventory for 05 means closer to msrp sales, and quicker liquidation. I doubt they want to see thousands of rx8s still in lots at end of summer in 05 like what's happening in 04. Your patience will really pay off, you just need to hang on a little bit longer. Good luck!!

MikeJ

Hi, I just purchased an RX-8 through the lease program. I got the car at invoice less the $2500.00 lease incentive. I personally don't like leases because I drive at least 18K per year, but they are appropriate for some people in some cases, especially business owners like myself. Anyway what I did was went into the deal as a lease(LPO/Last payment option) to get the $2500, then I took the total amount financed for the car, and refinanced through my banker to purchase it. The sales manager at the Mazda dealer was the one who recommended it to me, and I was skeptical, but it worked like a charm. I believe the lease incentive instead of a rebate allows Mazda to sell cars cars without devaluing it like a rebate does. Like I said i was skeptical about this transaction at first, but I ran it by my banker, CPA, and my buddy who is the CFO at the local Mercedes dealership here.

MP3Guy

In New York, Mazda won't lease a car because our lovely State ledership is beholden to the trial lawyers, so we have what is known as "vicarious liability" laws. Stupid bloodsuckers.

Mazda and the other mfgs get around this by offering a financing deal with similar payments to an out of state lease, but you do in fact own the car. They simply offer the option to walk away or buy the car after three years. I wonder if they offer the same $2500 off for this kind of deal.

Purchase time is approaching...........

Leadfoot27

Dave originally posted thread as a "deal watch" so I will stick to that. Whether a person leases or buys is an individual decision based on personal factors specific to their situation. I ended up buying my 8(3 weeks ago) but also was offered a lease. I got the MT, touring package,spare tire, CD changer. MSRP was 30,395, bought for 27,500. I could have leased for 48 mos, 1000 down, 329/mo, 12k miles/yr, residual 14,000. The dealers in my area have plenty of 8's on the lot(one dealer still has 60!). Dave, you should be able to to get a great deal between now and September, depending on how many 8's are on the lots of the dealers near you. The 05's are starting to arrive now(my dealer already had 2 05's on the lot, in the new white color). If you have specific color/option package requirements, you may not want to wait until the last minute. If you're not picky, then wait till Sept when dealers will be desperate to sell off the remaining 04's. Whichever way you go, you wont be disapointed. Its a great car and a hell of a lot of fun to drive. Good luck, and let us know how you make out with your deal.

MikeJ

In response to MP3Guy, that is exactly what the dealer enabled me to do. I own the car, but after 3 years I could keep it, thus pay the residual only as long as a was within the mileage limitations, if I planned to buy the car anyway, forget the mileage limitations, and refinance after I did the deal with the dealer. Either way it was worth $2500.00 off!

MP3Guy

Interesting article here:

The New York Times
July 22, 2004
Detroit Profits Most From Loans, Not Cars
By DANNY HAKIM

DETROIT, July 21 - The General Motors Corporation and the Ford Motor Company may be two of the world's largest automakers, but they continue to make their money as banks.

So with interest rates rising, and competitors like the Toyota Motor Corporation far more profitable in the industry's core business of manufacturing cars and trucks, the market has reacted cautiously to the improved earnings reports by Ford on Tuesday and G.M. on Wednesday.

G.M. reported that second-quarter earnings totaled $1.3 billion, up 49 percent from the period a year earlier, an increase fueled largely by its financial services division.

Auto sales in Asia remain especially lucrative for G.M., which has capitalized more successfully on the surging Chinese market than has Ford. But car and truck sales in North America continued to produce only slight, albeit improving, returns for G.M. The company has been losing market share in the United States despite heavy spending on rebates as high as $5,000 and offers of no-interest financing for many of its vehicles.

And in Europe, G.M. has reported wider losses this year.

In New York Stock Exchange trading Wednesday, G.M. shares fell 25 cents, or 0.57 percent, to $43.35.

On Tuesday, Ford reported $1.17 billion in net income, much of it from its financing operation. It said it had a slight loss in its automotive operations. Ford's shares fell 2.5 percent in New York Stock Exchange trading. They fell another 7 cents, to close at $14.53 on Wednesday.

G.M., Ford and DaimlerChrysler's Chrysler unit are spending more on incentives than rivals like Toyota and Nissan.

"We still have much work to do to improve our automotive profitability to targeted levels," Rick Wagoner, G.M.'s chairman and chief executive, said in a statement.

G.M.'s considerable array of brands includes Chevrolet, Buick and GMC; more expensive brands like Cadillac and Hummer; and foreign-based brands like Saab.

Over all, and excluding special items in the second quarter, the company earned $2.36 a share, 12 cents above the consensus estimate of Wall Street analysts compiled by Thomson First Call.

Revenue rose 7 percent, to $49.1 billion, from $45.9 billion a year earlier. But global automotive market share slipped to 14.7 percent from 14.9 percent a year earlier.

Facing shrinking market share and bloated inventories in the United States, especially in sport utility vehicles and pickups, the company projected slimmer third-quarter earnings than analysts have been expecting. G.M. had already announced that it would trim production in the quarter.

John Casesa, an analyst at Merrill Lynch, said G.M. was making steady improvements "in the face of an increasingly competitive environment."

"However," he added, "the difficulty of improving results in an overcrowded North American market is a major factor limiting margin expansion."

In recent years, foreign competitors of G.M and Ford have entered the S.U.V. market in force and redoubled their efforts to sell large pickups, putting pressure on what was a considerably less competitive profit center in the late 1990's.

In its earnings announcement Wednesday, G.M. reiterated its earnings target of $7 a share for the year. But according to John M. Devine, G.M.'s chief financial officer, a new accounting rule proposed this week by the Financial Accounting Standards Board could reduce earnings by $1 a share this year.

The rule would require companies to dilute earnings immediately when they issue a relatively new kind of debt, called contingently convertible bonds, just as they do with other convertible debt.

G.M. is the largest issuer of these bonds, known as Co-Co's, and would have to adjust its 2004 earnings to comply.

"To be frank, this came totally out of the blue for us," Mr. Devine said in a conference call to discuss the company's earnings. "To say the least, this sort of thing is very disruptive to us. It's costly."

Out of G.M.'s $1.3 billion profit, $860 million came from the General Motors Acceptance Corporation, the company's financing division, up from $834 million a year earlier. G.M.'s automotive operations earned a net $529 million, up from $140 million a year earlier.

Within G.M.'s automotive group, the Asia-Pacific business earned $236 million. While the company's North American automotive operations earned $328 million, that profit came from far higher volumes.

In Europe, G.M. is in the midst of a reorganization. G.M. Europe reported a loss of $45 million in the second quarter, compared with a loss of $3 million a year earlier.

"Europe continues to be disappointing and really unacceptable," Mr. Devine said.

He said that in the European operations, "we're still not cracking the code in terms of being profitable."

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company | Home | Privacy Policy | Search | Corrections | RSS | Help | Back to Top

rx8-scott

Already on the lot?? We'd love to see some pictures. Dealers in my area are only now starting to accept orders for the 05.

skuzbucket

Dave G - Remember Insurance increase - BIG Deal

I have a P5 and an RX8 GT.

The p5 is less than half on insurance... Yes I have multiple cars (4), but that still does not help much. Clean driving record and all. The insurance companies just see sports car and have no real data on it (only 1 year old) so they charge you for it.

Just my 2 cents on overall cost.

As for Buy versus Lease? Well - Lease quote was 610/mo for me at 3 yr/12k (16500 balloon to buy) to buy for 5 years (yes a longer term, but I own the car) 509/mo with 1500 down. I have a bitchin' credit rating as well...

MP3Guy

How do you come up with 610/mo for a lease? That's like having almost no residual calculated?

BTW, any recent NY buyers come in on the $2500 allowance??

Ninja

First of all, this is my first post so don't tear me up too much.

I've been an RX-8 wanna-be for some time now - they are just too too pretty!

Now I've got financing for this cool car (I'm going to purchase) and while I don't mind the dealer making a fair profit... I've already spent hours and hours and hours researching this thing. It seems hardly fair to me that I walk in and spend an hour or two of dealer time and they make LOTS of money off of me.

So, I'm looking for strategies for getting the BEST price I possibly can. Any advice, negotiating strategies, sources of further info on their "hidden" income sources on vehicles will help.

Some things I've already thought about (some feedback on these - and any others I haven't thought of would be appreciated):
1. I've already come in twice to look around, but my final visit will be towards the end of the month - my hope is they'll be scrambling for end of month sales.

2. I don't plan on mentioning my current financing arrangements to them - I've heard they can make money on the loan as well as the sale. My hope is they will be more willing to cut a deal on the negotiated price hoping to recoupe the profit on a loan to me.

3. I'm trying to get educated on MSRP & dealer invoice on all of the options I want - I'm hoping this will give me leverage as well.

4. I'm also trying to take advantage of the apparent glut of RX-8's on the market right now. My dealer right now has 23 in stock and a number of those would suite me just fine. That seems like a pretty high number - I don't believe it has gone down substantially in the last few weeks.

Anything else I'm missing? I'm not generally a very good negotiator, but I'm hoping I'll be able do better than I have in the past.

Thanks,
-Dennis

Homie O'Patrick

I live on Long Island and I am picking up my car tomorrow. If you are not aware, it is nearly if not completely impossible to get a lease in NY State since leasing companies can be named in law suits here. In its place, many manufacturers offer what GM calls a "Smart Buy," which is really a finance deal where you make relatively low payments for a certain term and then have a balloon payment on the residual. The dealer agrees to buy back the car at that price.

Anyway, Mazda is offering, in NY at least, $4,000 in incentives on the RX8 if you take this financing deal. My girlfriend (really fiance, but I am still irked by saying that) and I have been saving for a while to buy a car outright, to avoid monthly payments, so we were ready to buy the car with cash.

We went in and negotiated the price of the car down to $31,500 for a Red 6-spd, GT, Nav, appearance, rotory accents, spare tire, and a cassette deck. That's about 220 under invoice. When we were at the dealer, they informed my about the incentives on the "lease." I asked to see the contract to see if the financing was front loaded or there were penalties for paying off the loan early and it was no in both cases.

So that knocked the price of the car down to $27,500. Of that, $29,000 was taxible. When it was all said and done, we are getting the car for $30,200. We are going to pay it off right away, b/c the interest rate isn't too good.

These are the times I wish that I lived in Delaware, Home of Tax Free Shopping.

2ks2k

I too am in the same boat looking for a good lease deal. Although I'm trying to keep my payments under $300. The dealers here in Utah won't trade with each other with this special, so now I may have to drive 80 miles to get the one I want. The only offer I've gotten so far is...

Black, 6spd., Grand Touring, Appearance, Rotary Accent, and Spoiler
Terms: 48 mos., 12k/year
Down: 1st payment $359 and sec dep. $350
Payments: $359

I'm hoping to find one with just the Touring Package and a spoiler for $300 or less...we'll see.

Cam

iTrader: (1)

Dennis,

Go to Edmunds.com, that site has lots of articles/tips regarding negotiations, and you can price out the car and will show you the invoice.

I definetly wouldnt tell the salesman that you have your own finacing. Ive read alot on hear that people are getting their 8 for close to invoice.

Stick to your guns, and threaten to "walk out" if necessary.

Which dealer are you using? Not Sound Mazda I hope. They are the worst dealership in the Seattle area.

Ninja

Thanks Cam, been there done that. I even have a little spreadsheet with totals for invoice & msrp for the options I'm interested in.

Also someone in one of the forums here pointed out a cool link to a web site seemingly centered on the subject of dealing with car dealers:
http://www.beatthecarsalesman.com/school/
Mostly common sense, but useful none the less since I'm not accustomed to this mind set. It also confirmed the end of the month strategy.

While at Edmunds they offered to get me a group quote from like 4 dealers in my area. Even though I've gotten "internet" quotes from Lee Johnson (my prefered dealer since they are closest), and Sound Mazda (thanks for the feedback on them), I decided to give it a try. This time in my comments I entered something along the lines of "please don't waste my time with MSRP quotes, I'm a serious buyer". Well, *before* 9AM this morning I had a mail from Doug's Lynnwood Mazda that they were having a $200 off invoice sale for August only.

I hear about holdback as a means to allow the dealer to make money even when they sell at or below invoice so I know they can do better - I've also seen mention here about people going substantially below invoice. I just don't know how much. I'll try to leverage this information to see what I can get elsewhere - I know it's not binding, but it's useful.

Thanks,
-Dennis

goforwand

deal for the 24 months and then finance the residual?

Another member used this strategy effectively because they knew they were going to keep the car for an extended period of time, so the mileage was irrelevant.

I assume the money factor over the 24 month lease would no be quite as good as a normal 60 month rate, but the fact that you would be $4250 BELOW invoice versus an outright purchase at or slightly below invoice may be worth the poor money factor for the 24 month term (I think it was around ~ 7.00%)

I tried to search for the thread but to no avail....maybe the author or someone could supply the link.

Although I'm sure you've already thought of this, make sure the dealer clarifies that they have reasonable or no "processing" fees. When my dealer quoted me "invoice" for my 8 he conveniently failed to mention the $499 processing fee that he "has" to charge "everyone". Total B.S. The charge suddenly "disappeared" as the car then became $500 under invoice with the $499 still in tact on the paperwork.

TV88

The 24 mo lease worked great for me. Your payments will be very low for the 24 mos due to the $4250 in incentives, but keep in mind that the residual (buyout at lease end) is calculated as a percentage of the MSRP, not the cap cost.

My 6 spd with sport pkg and spoiler had an MSRP of $28755 and has a residual in 24 mos of approx. $18,600. My monthly lease pmt is $298.xx plus tax. I paid $995 total at inception, which included first month's payment, security dep, etc.

Hope this helps!

TV