The latest offer from the dealer
12-09-2004, 05:05 PM
#26
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Thanks guys... yea, you're probably right, i just need to get over my prejudice against Red cars, haha. Insurance [not to mention whether my budget allows for the kind of fuel costs im looking at!] will end up being the deciding factor, you guys got some pretty good rates it seems, I will definitely try those companies.
How did the RX-8 stack up against other cars in regards to insurance rates? I've heard from some people that b/c of its small displacement and 4doors, it skates by on relatively low rates. But i've also heard it can be high b/c its a sports car and has a high HP/weight ratio. I dunno....
How did the RX-8 stack up against other cars in regards to insurance rates? I've heard from some people that b/c of its small displacement and 4doors, it skates by on relatively low rates. But i've also heard it can be high b/c its a sports car and has a high HP/weight ratio. I dunno....
12-09-2004, 05:57 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by KaPGuN
This is the deal that I'm looking into:
2004 Velocity Red 6MT RX-8
GT package
spare tire
rear wing
MSRP: $31,950
$1000 down
$475 bank fee
$300 ref. sec. deposit
$289/mo @ 24 monthes.
residual: $19,490.
So, I'm sure you still have some wiggle room in your deal. Then again, this one is the absolute last '04 that this particular dealer has, so im sure their eager to get rid of it, especially before it starts to snow out here.
2004 Velocity Red 6MT RX-8
GT package
spare tire
rear wing
MSRP: $31,950
$1000 down
$475 bank fee
$300 ref. sec. deposit
$289/mo @ 24 monthes.
residual: $19,490.
So, I'm sure you still have some wiggle room in your deal. Then again, this one is the absolute last '04 that this particular dealer has, so im sure their eager to get rid of it, especially before it starts to snow out here.
Based on the numbers you've cited above,you're paying, by my calculations $28,351 plus interest on any loan you may take out on the $19,490 residual. Not a bad deal, but I suspect there is another $1000-$1500 that the dealer would sacrifice to be rid of an '04.
12-09-2004, 09:02 PM
#29
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Here is the last offer...so far, and maybe I'm pushing it...
If you were to put down $2,700 your payments on the 48 month lease will be $329 and $368 on the 36 month lease. Yes the cap cost is $25,000 your residual value is $13,475.70
Your net price after all incentives is $21,500.
************************************************** *******
Here is my issue, OK if I wanted to buy the RX8 at the end of the lease...AND I DO it would look like this:
$329 @ 48 = $15,792
Risidual value = $13,475.70
Total purchase price: $29,267.70
That seems high to buy a RX8 with the options I have told you about. Am I pushing it here, is this the best I can get...help me guys...!!!
If you were to put down $2,700 your payments on the 48 month lease will be $329 and $368 on the 36 month lease. Yes the cap cost is $25,000 your residual value is $13,475.70
Your net price after all incentives is $21,500.
************************************************** *******
Here is my issue, OK if I wanted to buy the RX8 at the end of the lease...AND I DO it would look like this:
$329 @ 48 = $15,792
Risidual value = $13,475.70
Total purchase price: $29,267.70
That seems high to buy a RX8 with the options I have told you about. Am I pushing it here, is this the best I can get...help me guys...!!!
12-10-2004, 09:04 AM
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You forgot the $2700 you are paying up front. That's not to say that what you want to do is not good. Just make sure you figure everything. You probably already saw my response here, in which I show that the costs of a lease-buy could be the same of better than an outright buy: https://www.rx8club.com/purchasing-financing-insurance-56/should-i-lease-rx-8-a-36694/page3/.
This still sounds like a high monthly payment for 48 months, given $2700 down at lease signing. Go to leasecompare.com and input your figures to see what your monthly payment could be. I also think that you may be paying too much for the car. You should be able to get an '04 at close to invoice, and then an additional $3500 off for the lease incentive. Doing this for a 6-speed GT, with no money down and a money factor of .0017 results in a monthly payment around $350 (plus or minus $15 for taxes).
Ask the dealer more questions. If they are offering you something, it means they are still making money, and maybe too much. I have a cardinal rule: You've paid too much for your car if you haven't walked out of the dealership because they wouldn't deal, and then they call you back (this usually happens near month's end).
In short, I don't think your strategy is bad, but I do think the price they are giving you is higher than you need to pay. Of course, if this is the last car of its type with options around, then you may have no choice, and that's OK too. As long as you know you are overpaying ahead of time, and don't find out two weeks later you could have saved $1000, the you can sleep easy.
Back when I was younger, I was screwed over on several car deals because of my naivety about how dealers sell cars and their ability to do magic tricks with numbers. Now I figure out what my deal should be, and take it from dealer to dealer. If no one bites or calls me back within two weeks, I know I was too low. I revise my numbers and go back again. This way, I pay what I want to pay and not what they want me to pay. Sometimes I accept paying more for a car in high demand, but would rarely do so for that is not. Since October 30, the five dealers in my area have sold few '04 RX-8's. Some of these cars have been on their lots since February with production numbers around 110000. This does not strike me as a high demand. Maybe it's different in other parts of the country.
This still sounds like a high monthly payment for 48 months, given $2700 down at lease signing. Go to leasecompare.com and input your figures to see what your monthly payment could be. I also think that you may be paying too much for the car. You should be able to get an '04 at close to invoice, and then an additional $3500 off for the lease incentive. Doing this for a 6-speed GT, with no money down and a money factor of .0017 results in a monthly payment around $350 (plus or minus $15 for taxes).
Ask the dealer more questions. If they are offering you something, it means they are still making money, and maybe too much. I have a cardinal rule: You've paid too much for your car if you haven't walked out of the dealership because they wouldn't deal, and then they call you back (this usually happens near month's end).
In short, I don't think your strategy is bad, but I do think the price they are giving you is higher than you need to pay. Of course, if this is the last car of its type with options around, then you may have no choice, and that's OK too. As long as you know you are overpaying ahead of time, and don't find out two weeks later you could have saved $1000, the you can sleep easy.
Back when I was younger, I was screwed over on several car deals because of my naivety about how dealers sell cars and their ability to do magic tricks with numbers. Now I figure out what my deal should be, and take it from dealer to dealer. If no one bites or calls me back within two weeks, I know I was too low. I revise my numbers and go back again. This way, I pay what I want to pay and not what they want me to pay. Sometimes I accept paying more for a car in high demand, but would rarely do so for that is not. Since October 30, the five dealers in my area have sold few '04 RX-8's. Some of these cars have been on their lots since February with production numbers around 110000. This does not strike me as a high demand. Maybe it's different in other parts of the country.
12-10-2004, 09:38 AM
#31
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You have this thread and another about whether you should lease. Since it looks like you're pretty active here, I'll post something to think about here.
In general, the rule with leasing is that leasing is the lowest total cost option if you plan to get a new car at the end of the lease. And at the end of that lease, etc.
Leasing is NOT a good option if you plan to keep the car beyond the term of the lease. For me, I keep cars about ten years. Therefore, I buy instead of leasing. Leasing is a good way for people to drive (not own) cars they either otherwise couldn't afford or view as disposable. I'm new around here but I've seen lots of posts by you and you seem real intent, at least right now, on keeping this car for a long time.
BTW, the above is directly applicable to your current question. Yes, buying the car at the end makes the total cost unreasonable. That's because of the cost of the money you are borrowing during the lease. From what I've seen, you're stretching to get into a car you love and the lease is a way for you to do that. However, while the payments are lower it is NOT the lowest total cost if you plan to keep the car.
Best of luck. Sure hope to see you be Rx8have, being able to drop the 'wanna'.
In general, the rule with leasing is that leasing is the lowest total cost option if you plan to get a new car at the end of the lease. And at the end of that lease, etc.
Leasing is NOT a good option if you plan to keep the car beyond the term of the lease. For me, I keep cars about ten years. Therefore, I buy instead of leasing. Leasing is a good way for people to drive (not own) cars they either otherwise couldn't afford or view as disposable. I'm new around here but I've seen lots of posts by you and you seem real intent, at least right now, on keeping this car for a long time.
BTW, the above is directly applicable to your current question. Yes, buying the car at the end makes the total cost unreasonable. That's because of the cost of the money you are borrowing during the lease. From what I've seen, you're stretching to get into a car you love and the lease is a way for you to do that. However, while the payments are lower it is NOT the lowest total cost if you plan to keep the car.
Best of luck. Sure hope to see you be Rx8have, being able to drop the 'wanna'.
Last edited by Benedick; 12-10-2004 at 09:50 AM. Reason: Fix typos. Gotta learn to preview...
12-10-2004, 01:54 PM
#32
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You forgot the $2700 you are paying up front. That's not to say that what you want to do is not good. Just make sure you figure everything. You probably already saw my response here, in which I show that the costs of a lease-buy could be the same of better than an outright buy: https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=36694&page=3.
This still sounds like a high monthly payment for 48 months, given $2700 down at lease signing. Go to leasecompare.com and input your figures to see what your monthly payment could be. I also think that you may be paying too much for the car. You should be able to get an '04 at close to invoice, and then an additional $3500 off for the lease incentive. Doing this for a 6-speed GT, with no money down and a money factor of .0017 results in a monthly payment around $350 (plus or minus $15 for taxes).
Ask the dealer more questions. If they are offering you something, it means they are still making money, and maybe too much. I have a cardinal rule: You've paid too much for your car if you haven't walked out of the dealership because they wouldn't deal, and then they call you back (this usually happens near month's end).
In short, I don't think your strategy is bad, but I do think the price they are giving you is higher than you need to pay. Of course, if this is the last car of its type with options around, then you may have no choice, and that's OK too. As long as you know you are overpaying ahead of time, and don't find out two weeks later you could have saved $1000, the you can sleep easy.
Back when I was younger, I was screwed over on several car deals because of my naivety about how dealers sell cars and their ability to do magic tricks with numbers. Now I figure out what my deal should be, and take it from dealer to dealer. If no one bites or calls me back within two weeks, I know I was too low. I revise my numbers and go back again. This way, I pay what I want to pay and not what they want me to pay. Sometimes I accept paying more for a car in high demand, but would rarely do so for that is not. Since October 30, the five dealers in my area have sold few '04 RX-8's. Some of these cars have been on their lots since February with production numbers around 110000. This does not strike me as a high demand. Maybe it's different in other parts of the country.
This still sounds like a high monthly payment for 48 months, given $2700 down at lease signing. Go to leasecompare.com and input your figures to see what your monthly payment could be. I also think that you may be paying too much for the car. You should be able to get an '04 at close to invoice, and then an additional $3500 off for the lease incentive. Doing this for a 6-speed GT, with no money down and a money factor of .0017 results in a monthly payment around $350 (plus or minus $15 for taxes).
Ask the dealer more questions. If they are offering you something, it means they are still making money, and maybe too much. I have a cardinal rule: You've paid too much for your car if you haven't walked out of the dealership because they wouldn't deal, and then they call you back (this usually happens near month's end).
In short, I don't think your strategy is bad, but I do think the price they are giving you is higher than you need to pay. Of course, if this is the last car of its type with options around, then you may have no choice, and that's OK too. As long as you know you are overpaying ahead of time, and don't find out two weeks later you could have saved $1000, the you can sleep easy.
Back when I was younger, I was screwed over on several car deals because of my naivety about how dealers sell cars and their ability to do magic tricks with numbers. Now I figure out what my deal should be, and take it from dealer to dealer. If no one bites or calls me back within two weeks, I know I was too low. I revise my numbers and go back again. This way, I pay what I want to pay and not what they want me to pay. Sometimes I accept paying more for a car in high demand, but would rarely do so for that is not. Since October 30, the five dealers in my area have sold few '04 RX-8's. Some of these cars have been on their lots since February with production numbers around 110000. This does not strike me as a high demand. Maybe it's different in other parts of the country.
You have this thread and another about whether you should lease. Since it looks like you're pretty active here, I'll post something to think about here.
In general, the rule with leasing is that leasing is the lowest total cost option if you plan to get a new car at the end of the lease. And at the end of that lease, etc.
Leasing is NOT a good option if you plan to keep the car beyond the term of the lease. For me, I keep cars about ten years. Therefore, I buy instead of leasing. Leasing is a good way for people to drive (not own) cars they either otherwise couldn't afford or view as disposable. I'm new around here but I've seen lots of posts by you and you seem real intent, at least right now, on keeping this car for a long time.
BTW, the above is directly applicable to your current question. Yes, buying the car at the end makes the total cost unreasonable. That's because of the cost of the money you are borrowing during the lease. From what I've seen, you're stretching to get into a car you love and the lease is a way for you to do that. However, while the payments are lower it is NOT the lowest total cost if you plan to keep the car.
Best of luck. Sure hope to see you be Rx8have, being able to drop the 'wanna'.
In general, the rule with leasing is that leasing is the lowest total cost option if you plan to get a new car at the end of the lease. And at the end of that lease, etc.
Leasing is NOT a good option if you plan to keep the car beyond the term of the lease. For me, I keep cars about ten years. Therefore, I buy instead of leasing. Leasing is a good way for people to drive (not own) cars they either otherwise couldn't afford or view as disposable. I'm new around here but I've seen lots of posts by you and you seem real intent, at least right now, on keeping this car for a long time.
BTW, the above is directly applicable to your current question. Yes, buying the car at the end makes the total cost unreasonable. That's because of the cost of the money you are borrowing during the lease. From what I've seen, you're stretching to get into a car you love and the lease is a way for you to do that. However, while the payments are lower it is NOT the lowest total cost if you plan to keep the car.
Best of luck. Sure hope to see you be Rx8have, being able to drop the 'wanna'.
I have done SO MUCH researches it aint funny. Here is what is good so far:
$25,000 (for a 6spd with sport package, CD changer & Spare tire) is below invoice or S-Plan prices so I’m very happy about that price.
What you said is true, I do plan on keeping the RX8 for at least 7 years and more like FOREVER because I love the car so much. I’m not the type to be changing cars ever other breath so I’m beginging to understand that the lease does not seem to be the best option for me.
Per what was posted right before yours…
I’m paying:
$2,700 down payment
$1,500 trade in value (more like $500 but I”ll take it…LOL)
So, then that’s a total of $4,200 down. Then add the $15,792 over my lease period, plus $13,745 to buy the car at the end of the lease and you have a total cost of:
$33,737! (NO WAY!)
I’m not going to get this deal…it would be stupid of me. I think they are smacking me with a HIGH interest lease, hiding some money, and possibly pocketing some lease rebates on top of that.
Thank you all for giving me your thoughts on this! You have helped me more than you know.
12-10-2004, 02:10 PM
#33
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The following was my latest email:
"What is the money factor? My residual seems a little high from what I have seen using online tools. Also, remember that I'm talking about $2,700 down + my car as a trade in which I think I can get $1,000 for. So the total down payment would be $3,700 or at the very least $3,500.
Let me know @36 & @48
Also, the down payment I'm making is that working for me or is that for lease fee's? If it's for lease fee's then that's just money down the drain. This is my thinking (per your last email not with the new numbers above):
$2700 down payment
$15,792 paid over the lease period
$13,745 residual
= $32237 TOTAL
If I were to buy it which I have ALL intentions to do. That is scarring me away because it seems that my money factor # is very high...I would be paying ALOT of interest over the lease then to buy it I would end up paying for this car for 7-8 years...WOW, too much.
I wanted a 36 month lease cause at the end of it I thought I could have a low residual to then finance for another 36 months. That would give me just 72 months worth of paying which is the max I would want to pay for any car
Lease rebates range (per Mazda) from $1,000 to $3,500 per other owners who recently purchased their RX8's. So...which rebate am I getting?
This must be the longest deal in the history of car sales, ha ha, sorry...but again I have to make the best decision for my family and I think there are still some questions & improvements to the deal possible.
Note: As I told you I am searching on my own for a used RX8 and my dealer friend in CO is looking for me too. I am still hopeing to work something out with your dealership so I can end up in a new car instead of a used one."
******This is her reply******
The money factor is 3.75 and we are giving you $1,500 for your trade in.
************************************************** ***************
Is it me or did she not answer a boat load of questions from my previous email? I’m going to send her another email (poor nice lady…I’m driving her nuts) to stress what she did not answer. Then, I’m going to switch it up on her. I’m going to change it to a purchase instead of a lease.
This is what I’m going to say basically:
$25,000 - $2,700 cash down - $1,500 trade in - $1,500 Mazda rebate = $19,300
If the above is true, then I’m close to making the deal…to buy the car (financing). I was told that they would work with me because I did not want the CD changer or the spare tire. Those two come to a total price of $720-800. Is there a way that we could trade up or remove those items? That would bring me down to $18,500 which @ 72 months it would leave me with a decent monthly rate.
Note: I think I’m pushing it here with the last $700-800 since that would make them physically remove those items from the car or basically give them to me for free. I’m working it man…working and as they call it “grinding” on the deal. You might want to know that they have about 6-8 04 RX8’s on their lot with a boat load of 05’s now so they are willing to make deals because of this. Also…I did walk out of the dealership, TWICE! :D
"What is the money factor? My residual seems a little high from what I have seen using online tools. Also, remember that I'm talking about $2,700 down + my car as a trade in which I think I can get $1,000 for. So the total down payment would be $3,700 or at the very least $3,500.
Let me know @36 & @48
Also, the down payment I'm making is that working for me or is that for lease fee's? If it's for lease fee's then that's just money down the drain. This is my thinking (per your last email not with the new numbers above):
$2700 down payment
$15,792 paid over the lease period
$13,745 residual
= $32237 TOTAL
If I were to buy it which I have ALL intentions to do. That is scarring me away because it seems that my money factor # is very high...I would be paying ALOT of interest over the lease then to buy it I would end up paying for this car for 7-8 years...WOW, too much.
I wanted a 36 month lease cause at the end of it I thought I could have a low residual to then finance for another 36 months. That would give me just 72 months worth of paying which is the max I would want to pay for any car
Lease rebates range (per Mazda) from $1,000 to $3,500 per other owners who recently purchased their RX8's. So...which rebate am I getting?
This must be the longest deal in the history of car sales, ha ha, sorry...but again I have to make the best decision for my family and I think there are still some questions & improvements to the deal possible.
Note: As I told you I am searching on my own for a used RX8 and my dealer friend in CO is looking for me too. I am still hopeing to work something out with your dealership so I can end up in a new car instead of a used one."
******This is her reply******
The money factor is 3.75 and we are giving you $1,500 for your trade in.
************************************************** ***************
Is it me or did she not answer a boat load of questions from my previous email? I’m going to send her another email (poor nice lady…I’m driving her nuts) to stress what she did not answer. Then, I’m going to switch it up on her. I’m going to change it to a purchase instead of a lease.
This is what I’m going to say basically:
$25,000 - $2,700 cash down - $1,500 trade in - $1,500 Mazda rebate = $19,300
If the above is true, then I’m close to making the deal…to buy the car (financing). I was told that they would work with me because I did not want the CD changer or the spare tire. Those two come to a total price of $720-800. Is there a way that we could trade up or remove those items? That would bring me down to $18,500 which @ 72 months it would leave me with a decent monthly rate.
Note: I think I’m pushing it here with the last $700-800 since that would make them physically remove those items from the car or basically give them to me for free. I’m working it man…working and as they call it “grinding” on the deal. You might want to know that they have about 6-8 04 RX8’s on their lot with a boat load of 05’s now so they are willing to make deals because of this. Also…I did walk out of the dealership, TWICE! :D
12-10-2004, 02:26 PM
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YUP! I just sent her that other email...I can't wait to hear what she said.
People YOU MUST READ at edmunds.com the article called "Confessions of a car salesman" you will see the LIGHT. You will never shop at a car store AGAIN with your eyes closed. MAN, it was GREAT. It's long...but with every sec of reading...go read...read and be FREE!
Some of the stuff I'm doing to them...is what they DO TO US, it's time they play fair! I know they have to make money...but just be fair man...that's all!
People YOU MUST READ at edmunds.com the article called "Confessions of a car salesman" you will see the LIGHT. You will never shop at a car store AGAIN with your eyes closed. MAN, it was GREAT. It's long...but with every sec of reading...go read...read and be FREE!
Some of the stuff I'm doing to them...is what they DO TO US, it's time they play fair! I know they have to make money...but just be fair man...that's all!
12-10-2004, 02:27 PM
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Oh, leaseing it instead of buying it will waste about $3,500-5,000 compared to buying it, so the deal will now have to be a purchase deal...or, I get a used one and LOVE IT EITHER WAY.
I think the owner of that dealership will get sick of me soon...and give up on me, I'll bet money on it...LOL
I think the owner of that dealership will get sick of me soon...and give up on me, I'll bet money on it...LOL
12-10-2004, 09:13 PM
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rx8wannahave--Sounds like you are on the right path. Maybe they will get so sick of you they will tell you the truth about how much they paid for the car, and you can a few hundred over that as a fair price. Don't forget to add sales tax to the price in considering your financing. In Ohio, it would add another $1400 to a car at that price.
12-11-2004, 08:01 AM
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I spoke to my wife and told her that I might have to accept a higher monthly payment since I wanted to buy it instead of leasing it. I told her I would then refinance it after a year so it wont be so bad.
I'm doing this, IF POSSIBLE because I have not heard back from the dealer yet, because I'm having trouble finding financing. I just paid off my student loan but it is not showing up yet so this is hurting me a bit.
Yeah...Taxes....things would be so much better without them...LOL! I already submitted to them my latest offer and I'm waiting on what they tell me. I"ll keep you all posted!
I'm doing this, IF POSSIBLE because I have not heard back from the dealer yet, because I'm having trouble finding financing. I just paid off my student loan but it is not showing up yet so this is hurting me a bit.
Yeah...Taxes....things would be so much better without them...LOL! I already submitted to them my latest offer and I'm waiting on what they tell me. I"ll keep you all posted!
12-21-2004, 10:18 PM
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I just bought my 2004 RX-8 Dec 15th 2004. 6- speed, Grand Touring Package, Navigation, Wheel Lock set, Silver with Red/Black leather, 6 disc in dash changer, heated seats, etc for $25343 plus tax. Of course then I dropped $1181 at the Tire Rack the next day for snow tires 215-55-17 Blizzaks MS-05's mounted on 17x7 Mille Miglia Evo5's. I shopped around for about 6 days and over 13 dealers listed on autotrader.com and told them I had the S plan (employee purchase) which I am NOT, but wanted to have as much leverage as possible getting them to give the best price over the phone. I never test drived one and bought mine the first time I drove it. Best thing to do is get your loan approved up front before dealing with ANY dealer. call your bank or try capital one "blank check" option. I got my credit union to give me a blank check for up to $30,000 at 4.95 interst for 84 months. TOLD every dealer I wanted the best CASH price and that I was shopping other dealers and I did not want to come in unless they gave me a good price. My sticker was $34025 on my car and out the door for $25,000. 04's will go at that price if you PUSH. Best of LUCK!
12-23-2004, 10:39 PM
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i shafted myself on my lease now i am paying for it. i am not gonna say how much my lease is and for how long. i can afford it but its too much to be spending. i plan on ending my lease early and giving up my car so i can buy a good house.
12-24-2004, 10:27 AM
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Thanks guys, I think getting the loan FIRST will be the way I go from now on. I'm tired of dealerships and their LIES. I don't know if it will be an 8 anymore...but I want to get the loan FIRST!
Thanks for your help!
Thanks for your help!
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