Talking Down MSRP
09-30-2003, 02:52 PM
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Talking Down MSRP
I've noticed that a number of people in this forum got the sale price for less than MSRP and for some just a little over invoice. I'm just wondering how to go about doing this, what to say, what to do, what to ask for and al other such things. I'm buying a Red RX8 soon thats MSRP is 34,070, and needless to say if I can get this down even if just slightly that'd be a good thing.
09-30-2003, 03:14 PM
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get on the phone
First go to the mazda usa website and search available Inventory in your area. Find the cars that you are willing to buy. Call and talk to the Fleet manager or sales manager and ask for his rock bottom deal. It will help if you are preapproved for financing by your own source. You can always let the low bid dealer also compete for the financing, just watch out for add ons at signing.
I used this method and got one offer for discount of $300 off of MSRP one for $1000 off of MSRP and one offer for a $1400 discount off of MSRP $27555. Discounted price is $26155. My final drive out deal on a base M/T with spoiler all in is $28025. I pick it up next week. I have to drive 120 miles for this deal, but that's better than over paying.
I used this method and got one offer for discount of $300 off of MSRP one for $1000 off of MSRP and one offer for a $1400 discount off of MSRP $27555. Discounted price is $26155. My final drive out deal on a base M/T with spoiler all in is $28025. I pick it up next week. I have to drive 120 miles for this deal, but that's better than over paying.
09-30-2003, 07:20 PM
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I just went in today and I got $1000 under MSRP. The car was 34070 (GT/Nav Computer/Appearance Package), and I got 33000 flat out. Is that any good? If it isn't don't be harsh because I've already been beating myself up thinking I could've gotten 32000.
10-02-2003, 01:34 AM
#5
I just agreed to a price of $660 over invoice - I have the VIN of my (hopefully) soon-to-be car, and it does show up on the inventory list of my dealer at the Mazda USA site, so all seems to be OK so far. Estimated delivery is end of October. Keeping my fingers crossed that nothing will screw things up. 
What I did is this: specify the exact car you want, right down to the precise option list. Then, as it was said earlier, search the inventory of dealers through the Mazda USA site. If you can find the exact car you're looking for, call the dealer and make an offer. The fact that a car shows up in the dealer's inventory does not mean that they have it on the lot. Those cars that have been ordered by the dealer and are assigned to them will show up too, even though they are only en route or something similar.
Calculate a price which is about 3% over invoice - together with the 2% dealer holdback they receive for cars that they sold, this should give them about 5% profit, which is a fair amount IMO. If you take the invoice prices from a Web site, add the $520 destination charge - dealers take THIS as their invoice price.
Be very firm with your offer as far as price and the option list goes. Some dealers will brush you off, but you'll find a few that are willing to take your offer. When negotiating, DON'T BUDGE. Stick to your numbers. If they don't like it, walk. Whichever dealer gives you the best offer (and the earliest delivery date), wins
Other than sales tax, title fee and documentation fee, don't accept any other extra charge when calculating the out-the-door price. If they come with some ridiculous stuff like advertising fee and who knows what else, tell them to forget about it - this is THEIR cost to run a business, not yours.
Oh, and read Web sites like
CarBuyingTips :D
They will give you good ideas about "dealing with dealers" :D
What I did is this: specify the exact car you want, right down to the precise option list. Then, as it was said earlier, search the inventory of dealers through the Mazda USA site. If you can find the exact car you're looking for, call the dealer and make an offer. The fact that a car shows up in the dealer's inventory does not mean that they have it on the lot. Those cars that have been ordered by the dealer and are assigned to them will show up too, even though they are only en route or something similar.
Calculate a price which is about 3% over invoice - together with the 2% dealer holdback they receive for cars that they sold, this should give them about 5% profit, which is a fair amount IMO. If you take the invoice prices from a Web site, add the $520 destination charge - dealers take THIS as their invoice price.
Be very firm with your offer as far as price and the option list goes. Some dealers will brush you off, but you'll find a few that are willing to take your offer. When negotiating, DON'T BUDGE. Stick to your numbers. If they don't like it, walk. Whichever dealer gives you the best offer (and the earliest delivery date), wins
Other than sales tax, title fee and documentation fee, don't accept any other extra charge when calculating the out-the-door price. If they come with some ridiculous stuff like advertising fee and who knows what else, tell them to forget about it - this is THEIR cost to run a business, not yours.
Oh, and read Web sites like
CarBuyingTips :D
They will give you good ideas about "dealing with dealers" :D
10-02-2003, 07:46 AM
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Tamas is correct, Dealers will take a 3% deal
I calculated the numbers of my deal and here is how they fall.
List = 27555
Discount = 1400
Net Price = 26155
Invoice = 25467
Profit = 687
Profit Percent = 2.7%
This is a real deal and I did not have to work very hard to get it. I just had to search inventory and call around where I found the cars I wanted. You can cover a lot of ground using this method and it evens the playing field between the dealer and customer by taking the emotion out of the deal. This technique neutralizes pressure sales tactics which reduces the mistakes made by sponteneous purchases.
List = 27555
Discount = 1400
Net Price = 26155
Invoice = 25467
Profit = 687
Profit Percent = 2.7%
This is a real deal and I did not have to work very hard to get it. I just had to search inventory and call around where I found the cars I wanted. You can cover a lot of ground using this method and it evens the playing field between the dealer and customer by taking the emotion out of the deal. This technique neutralizes pressure sales tactics which reduces the mistakes made by sponteneous purchases.
Last edited by renotse; 10-02-2003 at 07:52 AM.
10-02-2003, 06:11 PM
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MSRP is for suckers
Here's how mine went:
Dealer: "We usually get a PREMIUM over MSRP."
Me: "Oh yeah? How much?"
Dealer: "Usually $3000."
Me: "Ok, then put me down for a downpayment of $9000. I got my original quote off the Internet, the FTC's Internet Advertising Act says that anyone that quotes one price online and refuses to honor it is breaking the law, the penalty is 3x the overcharge."
Dealer: "Well for you, we could just do MSRP."
Me: "That's a start."
Dealer: "We usually get a PREMIUM over MSRP."
Me: "Oh yeah? How much?"
Dealer: "Usually $3000."
Me: "Ok, then put me down for a downpayment of $9000. I got my original quote off the Internet, the FTC's Internet Advertising Act says that anyone that quotes one price online and refuses to honor it is breaking the law, the penalty is 3x the overcharge."
Dealer: "Well for you, we could just do MSRP."
Me: "That's a start."
10-05-2003, 03:16 AM
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I pre-ordered a car all the way back in April. I'm just about to receive shipment sometime this month. I think I got screwed a little. But that is besides the point, I'm wondering that even if I already got the price in writing, am I able to negotiate that price upon delivery?
10-05-2003, 01:21 PM
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Depends
They'll tell you no, but it all depends on whether or not you're willing to walk. There are lots of RX-8's on lots, and there are plenty of other places that can take an order and have it in under 6 weeks, so why would you want to pay MSRP?
10-06-2003, 06:21 PM
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Gettin' da deal
I got my car for 2k below MSRP with a buttload of free options. Try the following, believe me this works...
- Go online and pick out exactly what you want and are willing to pay for. The packages, color, the whole nine with the pricing. Ask to get price quotes from your local dealers.
- When the dealers start emailing/calling you tell the UP FRONT, that you will refuse to do business with anybody that does dealer mark-up (the mark-up scam is pretty bad in my area)
- When you go into the dealership bring your homework with you. Have printouts of the car you want with the prices.
Always remember that most dealers want you to buy a car off the lot, they don't really want an Internet deal. They want your money NOW not 6-8 weeks from now. Also, in a few weeks they could potentially lose the deal, and they don't want that either. So most dealers will immediately try to get you interested in something on the lot.
- If you don't like what they have on the lot, tell them. Don't get talked into a bunch of useless crap that you know you won't use or don't really like. You gotta be strict with them and yourself.
- If they say, "oh but the wait time is x for an Internet order" say, "no problem I'm willing to wait".
If they try to get you to take a car off the lot (and you actually like the car):
- Tell them specifcally what you don't like about it. If it has a spolier and you didn't want a spoiler, say so. Basically, get them to come off the price for stuff you don't want.
- IMPORTANT: When your negotiating price have the dealer talk "total purchase price" NOT "monthly payment". This is how they get you. "Yes, $450 for 66 months! What deal!". Immediately ask the guy for a total price when he does that.
After awhile you will probably be labeled as "a grinder". This is a person who keeps needling them down in price. Get the salesman to keep going back to the finance guy to negotiate better deals until your happy. Worse comes to worse, and the guys won't budge for you, you can still do the Internet deal. You should be willing to spend a lot of time at the dealership doing this. I was at the dealer for over 3 hours until I got what I wanted. It is important to note that it's a lot easier to grind them down when you have decent credit.
If you have good credit you really don't have to worry about getting the loan in advance. If your credit isn't too hot you may want to consider getting pre-approved for something first. If you have bad credit, having a large down-payment will help (it also helps you grind better when you have good credit).
Finally, and most important of all, be willing to get up and walk out at anytime. Most people are so scared to walk out on a dealer that they wind up getting taken in the end. Walk if your not happy.
Forgot one thing...ladies if you are buying a car, take a man with you. I know this is 2003, but some dealerships are living in a 1950's world. Sad but troof.
- VoodooKhan
- Go online and pick out exactly what you want and are willing to pay for. The packages, color, the whole nine with the pricing. Ask to get price quotes from your local dealers.
- When the dealers start emailing/calling you tell the UP FRONT, that you will refuse to do business with anybody that does dealer mark-up (the mark-up scam is pretty bad in my area)
- When you go into the dealership bring your homework with you. Have printouts of the car you want with the prices.
Always remember that most dealers want you to buy a car off the lot, they don't really want an Internet deal. They want your money NOW not 6-8 weeks from now. Also, in a few weeks they could potentially lose the deal, and they don't want that either. So most dealers will immediately try to get you interested in something on the lot.
- If you don't like what they have on the lot, tell them. Don't get talked into a bunch of useless crap that you know you won't use or don't really like. You gotta be strict with them and yourself.
- If they say, "oh but the wait time is x for an Internet order" say, "no problem I'm willing to wait".
If they try to get you to take a car off the lot (and you actually like the car):
- Tell them specifcally what you don't like about it. If it has a spolier and you didn't want a spoiler, say so. Basically, get them to come off the price for stuff you don't want.
- IMPORTANT: When your negotiating price have the dealer talk "total purchase price" NOT "monthly payment". This is how they get you. "Yes, $450 for 66 months! What deal!". Immediately ask the guy for a total price when he does that.
After awhile you will probably be labeled as "a grinder". This is a person who keeps needling them down in price. Get the salesman to keep going back to the finance guy to negotiate better deals until your happy. Worse comes to worse, and the guys won't budge for you, you can still do the Internet deal. You should be willing to spend a lot of time at the dealership doing this. I was at the dealer for over 3 hours until I got what I wanted. It is important to note that it's a lot easier to grind them down when you have decent credit.
If you have good credit you really don't have to worry about getting the loan in advance. If your credit isn't too hot you may want to consider getting pre-approved for something first. If you have bad credit, having a large down-payment will help (it also helps you grind better when you have good credit).
Finally, and most important of all, be willing to get up and walk out at anytime. Most people are so scared to walk out on a dealer that they wind up getting taken in the end. Walk if your not happy.
Forgot one thing...ladies if you are buying a car, take a man with you. I know this is 2003, but some dealerships are living in a 1950's world. Sad but troof.
- VoodooKhan
Last edited by Voodookhan; 10-06-2003 at 06:24 PM.
10-07-2003, 01:16 PM
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That sounds like good advice VoodooKhan! When I was shopping I called each of the dealers in the Bay Area and worked them down one by one. They hate this btw - they can't stand market forces and love it when the car has hype and a perceived "premium". I've had arguments with dealers who angry with my shopping around.
Another tip - create a spreadsheet and calculate percentages *above* invoice, not down from MSRP. Figure out 3%, 4%, 5% over invoice and negotiate those numbers. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect 4% over invoice - I actually paid 4.44% over but I could have tried harder - I just couldn't wait any longer ;-)
Another tip - create a spreadsheet and calculate percentages *above* invoice, not down from MSRP. Figure out 3%, 4%, 5% over invoice and negotiate those numbers. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect 4% over invoice - I actually paid 4.44% over but I could have tried harder - I just couldn't wait any longer ;-)
10-08-2003, 10:12 AM
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It has 532 miles on it. Most likely a demo car / dealership's owners car. This is also hinted by the background on some of the pics for the car. Good deal, if you don't mind the 100's of different people who has test-driven/abused it.
10-13-2003, 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by Tamas
I just agreed to a price of $660 over invoice - I have the VIN of my (hopefully) soon-to-be car, and it does show up on the inventory list of my dealer at the Mazda USA site, so all seems to be OK so far. Estimated delivery is end of October. Keeping my fingers crossed that nothing will screw things up.
What I did is this: specify the exact car you want, right down to the precise option list. Then, as it was said earlier, search the inventory of dealers through the Mazda USA site. If you can find the exact car you're looking for, call the dealer and make an offer. The fact that a car shows up in the dealer's inventory does not mean that they have it on the lot. Those cars that have been ordered by the dealer and are assigned to them will show up too, even though they are only en route or something similar.
Calculate a price which is about 3% over invoice - together with the 2% dealer holdback they receive for cars that they sold, this should give them about 5% profit, which is a fair amount IMO. If you take the invoice prices from a Web site, add the $520 destination charge - dealers take THIS as their invoice price.
Be very firm with your offer as far as price and the option list goes. Some dealers will brush you off, but you'll find a few that are willing to take your offer. When negotiating, DON'T BUDGE. Stick to your numbers. If they don't like it, walk. Whichever dealer gives you the best offer (and the earliest delivery date), wins
Other than sales tax, title fee and documentation fee, don't accept any other extra charge when calculating the out-the-door price. If they come with some ridiculous stuff like advertising fee and who knows what else, tell them to forget about it - this is THEIR cost to run a business, not yours.
Oh, and read Web sites like
CarBuyingTips :D
They will give you good ideas about "dealing with dealers" :D
I just agreed to a price of $660 over invoice - I have the VIN of my (hopefully) soon-to-be car, and it does show up on the inventory list of my dealer at the Mazda USA site, so all seems to be OK so far. Estimated delivery is end of October. Keeping my fingers crossed that nothing will screw things up.
What I did is this: specify the exact car you want, right down to the precise option list. Then, as it was said earlier, search the inventory of dealers through the Mazda USA site. If you can find the exact car you're looking for, call the dealer and make an offer. The fact that a car shows up in the dealer's inventory does not mean that they have it on the lot. Those cars that have been ordered by the dealer and are assigned to them will show up too, even though they are only en route or something similar.
Calculate a price which is about 3% over invoice - together with the 2% dealer holdback they receive for cars that they sold, this should give them about 5% profit, which is a fair amount IMO. If you take the invoice prices from a Web site, add the $520 destination charge - dealers take THIS as their invoice price.
Be very firm with your offer as far as price and the option list goes. Some dealers will brush you off, but you'll find a few that are willing to take your offer. When negotiating, DON'T BUDGE. Stick to your numbers. If they don't like it, walk. Whichever dealer gives you the best offer (and the earliest delivery date), wins
Other than sales tax, title fee and documentation fee, don't accept any other extra charge when calculating the out-the-door price. If they come with some ridiculous stuff like advertising fee and who knows what else, tell them to forget about it - this is THEIR cost to run a business, not yours.
Oh, and read Web sites like
CarBuyingTips :D
They will give you good ideas about "dealing with dealers" :D
10-14-2003, 02:17 PM
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Just an update, I got the car, a sweet sweet 6 Speed Velocity Red / All Black Leather Interior with Apperance Package and Nav System. The final deal was 31,000 and my 1995 Honda Civic. I'm not sure how well I did on that, the carfax trade in value was 2,950, but the transmission was shot on the car, so I figure it dropped it a lot. The dealer appraised it at 1,500, but the always lowball, so who knows, and I'm not even sure if this is better than 33,000 in the end, but it seems to be since the Honda wasn't much to me anyway.
10-18-2003, 08:52 PM
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dont pay MSRP
If you still plan on buying a car, dont pay more than MSRP!!!!! It is possible to get it $500 over invoice. Just did it today!!! If they dont give it to you get it somewhere else!
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