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So i've been doing quite a bit of research on this swap and based on what i've found this swap is quite indeed very possible, now I know what some of you are thinking "Oh, he probably found an S2 engine for a good price and he thinks he can just drop it in and have it work" and in all honesty that's kind of the case, but not really. While some feel lucky finding a 30Ksomething S2 engine with good compression for oh, let's say $1,700? I found myself a complete totaled 09' R3 for that price and not only that but with 18,885 original miles, I know f\/ck me right? But anyway I've done my homework and have purchased the donor/parts car to do this swap and if all goes to **** for some reason, hey I still got an S2 tranny and diff out of it and the engine and full suspension setup I can easily resale to make a decent profit and rebuild my S1 engine with it, but I want that 3rd oil injector per rotor which is literally the only actual benefit to this swap, so f\/ck it #R3S1
*For the nay sayers that will swear up and down that this swap is impossible and a waste of time, here's a basic rundown of what exactly i'm going to do:
1) Nothing from the S1 wiring or drivetrain system will be retained, everything from the R3 wiring system will be swapped over. The only thing that wont be swapped over is the suspension parts/components as I am going with a complete mazdaspeed suspension and chassis bracing setup instead (just preference, I know there's much better parts, I just want an OEM setup is all)
2) "The S1 ECU can't work with the S2 MOP" No ****, why wouldn't I use the S2 ECU with an S2 MOP?
3) "You're going to have to literally rewire the entire car, are you sure you actually thought this through?" Yes and it will be a pain in the ***** I know
4) "Did you even check if the engine is good at all" Yep sure did and it passed the Comp. test with flying colors (180RPM at 4,314 FAS - battery only had enough charge to crank at 180, see pics for comp. results and normalized numbers via foxed.ca)
Last edited by @italia916; 09-24-2016 at 08:04 AM.
For what it's worth, I think your plan is feasible albeit a lot of work, as you clearly realise, and isn't most people's idea of time well spent (much better to break your donor car for parts then buy an R3?). However, I can see how somebody seeing it as an interesting exercise would enjoy it and not care too much that what they produce isn't worth much to anyone else, particularly as that applies in varying degrees to everyone here doing an engine swap.
Now, if only I can find someone selling a totalled R3 with a good engine & all the bits for $1,700 . . . . .
For what it's worth, I think your plan is feasible albeit a lot of work, as you clearly realise, and isn't most people's idea of time well spent (much better to break your donor car for parts then buy an R3?). However, I can see how somebody seeing it as an interesting exercise would enjoy it and not care too much that what they produce isn't worth much to anyone else, particularly as that applies in varying degrees to everyone here doing an engine swap.
Now, if only I can find someone selling a totalled R3 with a good engine & all the bits for $1,700 . . . . .
Honestly It was either pay $1,100USD for an Atkins master rebuild kit and rebuild my S1 engine and just have a regular but running S1 or buy the R3 and upgrade the entire drivetrain with 70,000ish less miles for $600 more and while rebuilding my s1 engine may have been the easiest/simplest thing to do, the R3 swap will prove much more beneficial overall for very obvious reasons, but the main thing that attracts me to this swap is the slight bump in reliability/engine longevity from the extra oil injector and of course the low original mileage. and I also agree that most people wont find this swap favorable on either side of the fence whether it's just too much work and costly (as no one find this type of unicorn of a deal like I did) or because it's essentially swapping in the same engine with the same power/torque output or both. I'm honestly fine with the renesis as is and would much rather focus more on handling performance and tuning than increasing HP and TQ. which is last on my **** to do list.
So as I planned, the partout for the R3 has just about paid itself off which is awesome, I wasn't expecting it to go so well. Also Diff and tranny have been dropped and will be pulling the engine very soon (or dropping the subframe w/engine) and then I can continue with pulling the wiring and other components. After that I can start on the S1 and my goal is to at the very least be 90% done by the end of february during which i'll be vlogging my progress and posting updates on the swap to my youtube channel as well as on here.
*Pictured is the S2 tranny, S2 diff, S2 starter and RacingBeat catback I recently picked up which will be a nice touch as well
*Also pictured is the under dash wiring that'll be oh so much fun to remove
Watch that the wiring harness and electrical boxes don't get wet....and be careful trying to remove the wiring when it is really cold. All you need is wire breaks or shorts to try and diagnose after you have it all back together
Good luck...it will be a lot of work...but should work out in the end
We have had an R3 parts car for a while that has 9000 original miles on it. It was a flood car that ran fine after the flood and then all of the sudden stopped running and never ran again despite a few trips to the dealer (ECU and module replacements and programming) and a thorough going over by a guy with specific training on vehicle electronics. The idea of getting it running was ditched and most of the parts are on other RX-8s in our group.
You will need to swap over the dash and such as well as all the security modules and sensors.
Watch that the wiring harness and electrical boxes don't get wet....and be careful trying to remove the wiring when it is really cold. All you need is wire breaks or shorts to try and diagnose after you have it all back together
Good luck...it will be a lot of work...but should work out in the end
The car is covered with a tarp to keep snow and rain off of everything, i'll be sure to be careful with it though, hopefully I don't run into any electrical issues though, that would really suck
We have had an R3 parts car for a while that has 9000 original miles on it. It was a flood car that ran fine after the flood and then all of the sudden stopped running and never ran again despite a few trips to the dealer (ECU and module replacements and programming) and a thorough going over by a guy with specific training on vehicle electronics. The idea of getting it running was ditched and most of the parts are on other RX-8s in our group.
You will need to swap over the dash and such as well as all the security modules and sensors.
I don't see the point but good luck.
I'll be reusing the S1 dash panel, I know the S2 panel would be ideal, but so far all I can see that's really different is the head unit shape and the mounting points for the A/C controls so to work around that i'll be using an S1 metra kit face plate with an S2 metra wiring kit for a double din radio and I was able to modify the A/C controls to fit perfectly onto the faceplate which required breaking off the mounting points and will have to JB weld into place. Again I know it's not ideal, but it's a work around.
Other than that the dash panels themselves look to be similar enough to not run into any issues reinstalling after rewiring the S2 harness. The wiring under the dash looks to be overall in good shape, but of course i'll know for sure later on.
Last edited by @italia916; 09-24-2016 at 08:08 AM.
I'm pretty sure what 9k was saying is that the s1 dash circuitry isn't compatible with the s2 ECU and related components. If you want a working dash you will need to use the one from the s2.
You should have done your homework. The can bus setup is different (protocol and what not) on the S2, you will need a S2 cluster, head unit, etc., etc. Unless of course you are okay with a bunch of stuff not working right.
You should have done your homework. The can bus setup is different (protocol and what not) on the S2, you will need a S2 cluster, head unit, etc., etc. Unless of course you are okay with a bunch of stuff not working right.
I have the S2 cluster and the S2 head unit. I really can't see the issue of using the S2 dash cover as the cluster has the same dimensions as the S1 and if there are any mounting issues then i'm sure I can figure something out and as for the head unit is it not possible to use an aftermarket radio such as and android based double din unit in an S2? I mean Yes I have the head unit, but the faceplate is both misshaped for the S1 dash and also has a bit of damage as well which is why I don't want to try and use it. From what I can find others have had no issues installing after market radios into their S2s, so i'm interested in your reason as to why it can't work in my case as well, I mean if I was trying to retain S1 wiring of any kind I could see an issue there, but that's not what i'm doing at all.
Wow. Cool project you got there. Why not just use the S2 dash? The S2 gauges are pretty sexy.
All the best for you man. I genuinely hope things work out smoothly. Can't wait to see the final outcome.
I am using the S2 gauge cluster, just not the S2 dash cover. I have the S2 dash cover, but alot of the misc pieces from it are either missing or broken so i'm using the S1 dash cover panel instead. But thanks, I hope so too
Well, prepare to be surprised. And don't think I am pissing in your corn flakes, I am just trying to help you understand how complicated what you are trying to accomplish is. This a very complex thing you are doing with many modules that have to speak and be programmed to work together properly in order for the engine to function properly.
I know that, what I don't get is where the issue of using an S1 dash cover with the S2 wiring an components if everything mounts to it just fine (with or without minor modification). From everything you've said it really just seems like you think i'm trying to somehow magically retain S1 wiring and/or components without issues.
I understand that i'll have to have the car towed to mazda once everything is finished on my end to be reprogrammed as far as the IDS system goes, but as for using the S1 dash cover (keyword being cover) I can't see the issue
There was a guy on here with an S2 gauge pod in his S1. The backlighting flickered and the fuel gauge didn't work. The lights issue you should be able to solve with the S2 wires. But I remember reading that the fuel gauge didn't work because the fuel level sensor was different in the S2, or something like that. The fuel tank itself is bigger too. The thread is in here somewhere.
I have swapped an S2 cluster and cover into an S1. It's an easy direct swap, so their dimensions and plugs are identical and there is nothing in the cluster requiring programming to the car's systems.
I just read the post above again. I had no problems with flickering lights and the fuel gauge worked as expected.
Last edited by Ian_D; 01-31-2016 at 05:53 AM.
Reason: Read thread again
I remember reading the thread on the S2 cluster a while back too, I wasn't really worried about it at all, but wasn't sure if the tabs/mounting points were all the same or not. As for the wiring i'll be pulling it out after I remove the engine which I should be doing as soon as the snow melts again which has been on and off for a few weeks now and I don't just mean light snow, I mean roads dry as a bone to 6"-8" within a few hours of beginning to snow, so that kind of sucks.
01-09-2016 | 05:39 AM
