RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

I'm using a 5w-30 for now. Temp was approx 68F when I started it cold. (See my youtube video I attached above).

I would think if engine oil pressure was that low I would have experienced some issues by now (approx 500miles on engine)? Would that be any explanation for the oil consumption?

strokercharged95gt

On a piston engine, the rule of thumb is 10 psi minimum idle and 10 psi per 1,000 RPMs (i.e. 60 psi at 6,000 RPMs). I'm sure the minimum on a rotary is much higher as I hit over 100 psi by 3,500 RPMs.

Someone more qualified than I could probably give you an idea of minimum oil pressure numbers.

If it were me....

(1) I would get or real oil pressure gauge installed and see what that says. If oil pressure is fine at least you know and can use that gauge going forward to monitor engine health.

(2) Buy some cheapo 20w50 oil (maybe too thick for your climate) and do a quick oil change and see if the reading on your turbo pressure gauge comes up to 100 psi at startup and 30 psi at idle, or something similar. I would tend to believe that oil gauge if that happened.

When I first did my swap I used 20w50, but the oil pressure was too high all the time. Switched to 10w40 and its just about perfect. I am in Florida after all so that must be considered.

RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

Yes climate difference is why I figured 5w-30 is why I would experience similar pressures to you with the thinner oil. Maybe not though but yes, at full open I was expecting to see 100psi on cold start and me having to dial the regulator back; not the case. Right now I have the regulator set to about half closed. At idle this does nothing, I'm still notice considerable smoke on decel, and return to idle. Most likely on harder accel's too but it's tough to notice that in the rearview.

Also here are photos of the new 5/8" turbo drain, should be a lot better/smoother than the old drain.







In other news, I have a tuning session with Shawn to see if capping that open nipple was the problems with my idle. Fingers crossed I can at least get idle to normalize.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

it seems to me there’s a problem if it’s that low.

RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

Stroker just to clarify. If you have the regulator opened right up on turbo feed you will read the same pressure as your engine oil pressure gauge (120 cold / 60 hot)?

strokercharged95gt

Its hard to tell whats going on. Hopefully someone else will chime in with some advice....

strokercharged95gt

On my car, I have a 4 AN feed coming directly off the top of the front iron (driver side).

With the restrictor opened up all the way, I get exactly the same pressure as my oil pressure gauge will read (taken from the back iron at the factory oil pressure sending unit)..

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

I would be concerned with oil pressures that low.
Get a known good gauge on it and checknthat

It is possible your regulator is stuck partly open and not letting you get full pressure. Otherwise it could be a bearing or oil pump issue.

strokercharged95gt

I believe he is also using a REW front cover. Possible the front cover o-ring is missing, blown out or stuck somewhere its not supposed to be???

If the restrictor all the way open, the only two things that would factor in an oil pressure reading at the turbo feed gauge is (1) engine oil pressure and (2) back-pressure from the EFR center cartridge.

Other than a bad gauge, to have a low reading at the gauge only two things can be happening that I can think of.

A. Engine has low oil pressure
B. The EFR center section has such a loose clearance that all the oil is going straight through and not producing back-pressure.

Anyways, enough with the conjecture.

RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

Stroker, yes I have the same oil flow setup as yours, REW front cover to turbo feed.

Dan, I tested the regulator before installing. It is just a simple ball valve and I could see it fully closed/fully opened before I threaded it in.

Agreed, making sure the gauge is accurate should be the first move. On another note, with my tuning session tomorrow; assuming I can get the car to idle properly now that I've found and capped that vacuum leak then I think I can assume that the oil consumption is an independent issue from the bad idle (possible turbo seal). If the car ends up running as terribly as it has when trying to lock down a stable idle rpm of 1100 than there is a much higher chance that the oil consumption is linked to the poor idle (ie engine build issue).

RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

Stable idle has been achieved! Last night Shawn spent about 1 hour 15 mins tinkering to get a stabilized idle at 1100rpm. AFR's are a little rich for me (12.5 on adaptronic, 12.0 on AEM) but nonetheless shows that the engine is capable of idling properly. Because of the time we finished up I wasn't able to take the car for a test drive but it's just a basetune to be able to get break-in miles, so I'm not expecting perfection there.



After that 1.25hrs of idling, most of it very poorly, I ended up burning approximately 1qt of oil. By the end of the night on a very warm car (188F coolant temps) my oil pressure gauge on the turbo feed line was reading 0psi . My thoughts are that the turbo oil seal is so bad that it's unable to build pressure in the feed line. At one point (captured in the video above) I noticed that the smoke from the exhaust was getting a lot better. Thinking I bet I had run through lots of oil I ended up adding about 1/2 a quart. As soon as the oil was added the exhaust began to smoke really bad again.

This brings up a question. Those with a low profile oil pan (I'm using Banzai), we are still supposed to fill sump so it reads full on the dipstick correct? There isn't any particular reason that wouldn't be the case? I find this takes about 4 quarts of oil after an oil change to fill. Just want to confirm I'm not over filling the sump or something silly like that....

strokercharged95gt

I use the banzai oil pan and I just fill it up to the normal on the dipstick. My turbo drain goes through the front cover though.... I cant imagine how your turbo bearings got that bad so quick.

RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Stroker, that's what I figured. The car has been smoking like this since day 1. I don't believe they got bad that quick; just have always been bad.

Here is another video of a cold start yesterday before my tuning session with Shawn (running on old tune with pretty high post crank):

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeamRX8

9174 over 8374 is a mistake on a rotary imo. That’s not sound advice.

So in retrospect; when the EFR 9174 came out I assumed it was just the usual bigger, laggier turbo for making big power, but now recognize what an awesome choice you made. Getting it to fit as a low-mount is even more awesome. Something for you to look forward to; 9174 IWG with 0.92AR:






Addressing a couple of earlier comments, the main thing that prevents this on a Renesis is the LIM, which to make a big, smooth radius turn into the engine for best NA performance is offset further outboard over the exhaust area, where the FD type LIM drops straight down sooner close to the engine and then arcs sharply into it. The 6-port Renesis is even worse with APV actuator eating up more precious space too. You might be able to do it on a 4-port Renesis with a custom or modified factory LIM. Never thought about it before, but a FD UIM likely bolts directly on the 4-port Reni, but I’m not sure how mismatched the port shapes might be. They could still likely be made to match up.
.

RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

I was never unhappy with the choice that’s for sure. I had seen only a graph of the 1.05 ewg before I bought it though. There was other factors also leading me to go with that turbo selection (mentioned at the start of this thread) that had nothing to do with performance; ultimately I’m happy to see that graph aligns with how I was hoping it would look!

Any more info on fuel type and/or water methanol injection on that set-up?

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Yeah ...hard to argue with that chart , small loss down low and a small gain up top . But overall still awesome numbers and a nice wide power band.

Although It kinda looks like they labeled the wrong curve for the low rpm torque numbers.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

That was over two years ago when it first came out. I’m sure they’ve figured a few things out since then and imo it wasn’t even that developed then. They just took an old BB turbo off that had the same turbine inducer size and replaced it with the 9174 which has a larger compressor inducer. It killed it low and high, but the old BB was briefly close in the mid-range with a 0.84AR (the two dynos were stacked and I cut that other one off before posting it here). The thing is, it still has a lot left in it. A whole lot.
.

jcbrx8

Jesse, Any updates...? Is the turbo out to address the oil seal?

RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

I've been deliberately quiet the past month or so here until I know more; unfortunately I don't have much of an update.

Taking a step back and taking into consideration: low oil pressure, oil consumption (and amount of smoking from exhaust), difficulty achieving idle (and even once we did it is wildly inconsistent every time the car was started), low vacuum numbers at idle, and sub-par compression numbers; on top of all of the other diagnosis I've attempted over the summer (entire new ignition system, grounding, fuel injector testing, oil feed restrictor/gauge) I believe I've eliminated anything that could possibly cause the engine to run poorly except an internal issue. For now I've ruled out a turbo seal based on the robustness of the EFR turbo's; but I'm not saying 100% it's safe, just with everything else in combination it is more likely engine related.

My bet is that it is an oil control ring issue; but without opening up the engine it really is impossible to tell. The car is going to be picked up by the engine builder (hopefully later this week) and trailered back to his shop. He's going to have a look at everything and most likely will be pulling and opening up the engine for analysis. I figured it fair to let him look things over before attempting to get any more speculative info over the internet lol.

Hoping I can have the car back before the end of the month; hopefully even sooner. Unfortunately that's really pushing it up here as far as the season goes; it's been beautiful lately but typically we get our first snow before Halloween that normally doesn't stick. Hoping once I get it back I can at least take it for a bit of a drive and get a basetune resolved before winter storage.

jcbrx8

Sorry to hear of the suspicion of an internal engine issue. Hopefully, your builder w/b able to get it sorted and get you on the road quickly. 👍🏽

All the best!

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Praying that it’s a simple fix and corrected soon.

Otherwise just order up a set of 315/30-18 Blizzak snow tires, no problem.

MaD666MaX

iTrader: (3)

you should know skinny tires do better in deep snow

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

yes, but that’d ruin the intended foolishness of the response

Warrior777

iTrader: (11)

Quick question. RotaryMachineRx and all. I see you have used the rx8 front cover which I have done as well and that you have used full function engineering fuel rails. Did you use the rx7 rew fuel injector diffusers. I have searched a little on rx7club and found that some use them and some don't. I'm wondering your opinion on this. Thanks.

RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

I think it'll do just fine in my heated garage without! Even with snow on the ground, if the streets are clean enough you bet I'll be taking it for a test cruise.... super boost weather??