When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Damn ...that's some bad luck Stroker. If it were me and it still starts and runs fine ...I'd send it !
kinda my thought after a day of reflecting. This damage could of happened months ago and I'm just realizing it. May as well really push it now since a partial rebuild is already required....
Also after a night of pondering, the grounding strap may have just been vaporized and the lower compression could just be some apex seals that ain't so flat anymore from the high EGT's the rear rotor saw for so many pulls while I tried to diagnose that issue.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 07-20-2020 at 07:19 AM.
Just the same, pretty amazing how much abuse it’s taken, especially that prior running one rotor super lean situation
Maybe consider turning the dwell down some with the new plugs to keep from over-frying the gap. More is not always better in this case. Enough is just right.
Just the same, pretty amazing how much abuse it’s taken, especially that prior running one rotor super lean situation
The fact that the car was running hard with 0.033" and 0.075" gaps tells me that the car should have no problem running with the 0.028" preset gap (IIRC) from the NGK iridiums.
New plugs should be here by Friday. Should be able to get a new pull this weekend and look at the data.
At worst (if my second theory is true), I may just have to pull the motor, take off the rear plate, and replace the apex seals and corners seals springs in the rear rotor, replace two water seals, and put it back together. That should only be about $150-$200 in parts...
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 07-20-2020 at 01:12 PM.
kinda my thought after a day of reflecting. This damage could of happened months ago and I'm just realizing it. May as well really push it now since a partial rebuild is already required....
Also after a night of pondering, the grounding strap may have just been vaporized and the lower compression could just be some apex seals that ain't so flat anymore from the high EGT's the rear rotor saw for so many pulls while I tried to diagnose that issue.
Only issue is pushing it when it is hurt will just result in more damaged parts... You are more likely to loose a rotor from detonation
not sure if I misunderstood stroker, but the fact that it still ran that rotor with those gaps is a clear indication that the spark energy is likely much greater than required. Again, more and excessively so is not better. There’s a pretty good chance that the issue likely would have made it self known sooner and possibly with less damage had it not have been turned up too much. It could also mask other things, like overly excessive meth/water injection and so on. All things in proper balance makes for a better success result.
not sure if I misunderstood stroker, but the fact that it still ran that rotor with those gaps is a clear indication that the spark energy is likely much greater than required. Again, more and excessively so is not better. There’s a pretty good chance that the issue likely would have made it self known sooner and possibly with less damage had it not have been turned up too much. It could also mask other things, like overly excessive meth/water injection and so on. All things in proper balance makes for a better success result.
I compare my IGN1a coils to the tig welder..... not sure which one has more power.
They sure don't need to run a ton of dwell... but I have never had an issue with them if you stay around 5ms.
I had a plug do that recently. It was caused by detonation and had to do a rebuild after as the compression and power were down as well.
It seems that the rear rotor is usually the one that dies... likely a combination of more heat and mixture differences as the intake flow path isn't quite as good.
EGT differences are often a clear indication that something is hurt... long before you notice a loss in power or any missfires
it’s not just dwell though, it’s dwell relative to the coil used. In most cases 5 mS is way more than a turbo rotary needs. 3.5 mS on an IGN-1A is still a lot more spark power than most coils can even get close to running their max dwell. There was that coil test a year or two ago that documented it fairly well, like almost 2x more juice than the next closest coil and I think that was at only 3 mS.
In the early part of this year, I had been having issues with the car misfiring/breaking up around 6k. I pretty much tried everything.
New NGK plugs went in on 2/23 as we figured that the resistor plug would help with electronic interference from the smart coils. Problem was still there.
Just after that I replaced my wide-band o2 sensor to see if it was a running too rich/too lean issue. Problem was still there.
During that time I was doing dozens of pulls and I could figure out why fueling was so high to keep the A/F stable at upper RPMS.
Also seemed like the misfires would happen at high boost and 6,000 RPMs (when the secondary injector would be operating).
Knowing that I had previously had issues with the harness that was 15 years old, I bought a used one and check over all the connections and wiring and replaced on March 8th. I noticed that when the secondary injectors would turn on during a pull it was getting so rich (<10.0). I had to pull a ton of fuel to get the car to run correctly. I knew that an injector must not have been previously firing.
I noted that I think all of these issues may have been issues with the rear secondary not firing as it should have been and likely the misfiring was that one of the rotors was extremely lean and one extremely rich to give me a balance A/F ratio.
Since I have a EGT probe in the front rotor that never seemed to go above 1700F, I felt that it had to be the rear rotor going extremely lean.
I should have pulled the plugs then, but the car was finally running great again so I didn't.
This is the first time I pulled the plugs since 2/23, so it makes sense that i'm seeing the damage from all the pulls between 2/23 and 3/08.
So its likely I have been pushing the car for 5 months like this without knowing, pull after hard pull....
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 07-20-2020 at 02:16 PM.
pretty amazing, and people call a rotary engine fragile ... used to be, but technology hasn’t been standing still. Still sitting on a set of i-Rotary apex seals (latest Iannetti non-carbon, specifically made for high boost applications) that I hope to put to the test some day.
Put the new plugs in gapped at 0.028" and reduced the dwell to 3.5ms over the whole map. Seems like with the leading plug firing again on the rear rotor the vacuum is back up around 11-12". Car starts quick cold and hot (75/90). I tested again cold and I was at 70 rear and 80 front which is lower than the car was hot. I just can't believe these readings because the car drives great and starts fast.
Its possible my 15 year old compression tester is just reading low, so I ordered another one to verify. Shoud be here next week.
i am sort of suprised your coils didn't overheat. at 9000 rpm there are 6 mS. 4.5 dwell, 1.5 fire leaves 1 mS to cool off. i run 3.5 and a .023 gap.
as to compression, obviously thing got hot in the rear... most likely your corner seal springs at not at full .18 height.
there's compression at 250 rpm (on the starter) and there is compression when the apex seals are glued to the rotor housings so often a motor can have probs hotstart but make max power underway.
at the Runoffs Cris Dembs was on the pole and they had to pour a bit of oil down the Weber carb to get it running. he won the race for the SCCA Nat Championship.
i am sort of suprised your coils didn't overheat. at 9000 rpm there are 6 mS. 4.5 dwell, 1.5 fire leaves 1 mS to cool off. i run 3.5 and a .023 gap.
as to compression, obviously thing got hot in the rear... most likely your corner seal springs at not at full .18 height.
there's compression at 250 rpm (on the starter) and there is compression when the apex seals are glued to the rotor housings so often a motor can have probs hotstart but make max power underway.
at the Runoffs Cris Dembs was on the pole and they had to pour a bit of oil down the Weber carb to get it running. he won the race for the SCCA Nat Championship.
I rarely ran the motor past 8,000 (8,200-8,300 max), and when I did I believe the dwell was down to 3.75 ms or something like that (definitely under 4.0).... I'm sure the corner springs are nice and flat. I think I had to replace all of them on the front rotor last time when the exhaust sleave plugged the exhaust port at WOT. I'm impressed how well these motors cling on after being hurt even though everyone thinks they are so delicate.
Just thought i'd post this up to show contrasting tuning.
After my Mustang has been sitting in my garage for the past 3-4 years I decided to buy a new battery and get it running.
Just some backstory. The car is still running the factory 2-bolt block, which has been said will split in half once you get into the 500-600 rwhp range.
I currently have eight 450 cc/min injectors with a MAF meter calibrated in that range. I would estimate that these injectors max around 500 rwhp. I also have a methanol system turn on around 4 psi with two 5 GPM (315 cc/min) injectors running about 66% methanol/33% water.
I pretty much max the fuel system at 8.5-9.0 psi. With the new battery I had to play with the boost controller and set boost to 15% and gain to 15%.
Warmed the car up took it out in 3rd gear hit 10 psi (7675 with 0.96 AR) at 4,200 and blew the tires off at 65 mph. Before the tires broke loose, AFR was at 11.0 and that was with 19 degrees timing. The user volts graph is monitoring the output signal from the MAF, 5 volts being maxed (so close). Definitely have to turn the boost and gain back down to 5% or so.
The software (Tweecer) was so primitive back in 2001, but still works. Anyways I hope to get this car back up at 100% in the next few months.
Just thought i'd post this up to show contrasting tuning.
After my Mustang has been sitting in my garage for the past 3-4 years I decided to buy a new battery and get it running.
Just some backstory. The car is still running the factory 2-bolt block, which has been said will split in half once you get into the 500-600 rwhp range.
I currently have eight 450 cc/min injectors with a MAF meter calibrated in that range. I would estimate that these injectors max around 500 rwhp. I also have a methanol system turn on around 4 psi with two 5 GPM (315 cc/min) injectors running about 66% methanol/33% water.
I pretty much max the fuel system at 8.5-9.0 psi. With the new battery I had to play with the boost controller and set boost to 15% and gain to 15%.
Warmed the car up took it out in 3rd gear hit 10 psi (7675 with 0.96 AR) at 4,200 and blew the tires off at 65 mph. Before the tires broke loose, AFR was at 11.0 and that was with 19 degrees timing. The user volts graph is monitoring the output signal from the MAF, 5 volts being maxed (so close). Definitely have to turn the boost and gain back down to 5% or so.
The software (Tweecer) was so primitive back in 2001, but still works. Anyways I hope to get this car back up at 100% in the next few months.
Nothing like a Supercharged V8. The torque must be a nice change from the 8 haha. Basically you made a Terminator yourself?
I’m having a shop do my REW swap (no garage/time to try to attempt it) and the last question that came up was A/C. I will be driving the car in Central Texas, weekends of course. Is A/C worth the hassle?
Nothing like a Supercharged V8. The torque must be a nice change from the 8 haha. Basically you made a Terminator yourself?
I’m having a shop do my REW swap (no garage/time to try to attempt it) and the last question that came up was A/C. I will be driving the car in Central Texas, weekends of course. Is A/C worth the hassle?
They'll have to make a bracket to hold the Rx8 compressor and fit a tensioner pulley. Honestly it's probably more work to remove it; it fits relatively in the same spot as on the Renesis and the entire AC system can be reused. Other than that it's simple really. Check out my thread with pictures of it in place.
I used the rx8 front cover. IIRC you can use the front two bolts to hold the ac compressor, but you cant use the two bolts that go into the REW front iron. You do have to shave a little iron off the front iron plate to get the ac compressor to hug the engine correctly.
With using the two front bolts on the rx8 front cover and that little material removed from the iron, the ac compressor mounted and worked fine. A few years back I commented on a post on how to make the rx8 compressor work with the swap and included pictures.
My AC worked fine and normally I haven't been driving much in the summer, but this year I have driven it more and the OEM size radiator that was blocked by the condenser was just to much to keep my high idle bridge-port from creeping up in the 200-210 F range.
Oh and my mustang has a Precision Turbo 7675 (not supercharged). I have some NT-05 (295/40/18) coming in the mail as the current tires won't hold power above 4,000 RPMs even with as little as 5 psi on the motor. Last time I had the car to the track it had a Procharged P1SC supercharger and ran low 12s at 119 mph in full street trim with short-shifting 1st and 2nd to keep tire spin down. Hopefully I can take this to the track in the next few weeks and should be an easy 11 second time slip as I just took 60lbs off the front end and took out the stiff lowering springs in the front for softer coilovers and power should be up at least 50-60 hp and traction should be much better going to 27.4" OD drag radials.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 08-24-2020 at 12:45 PM.
They'll have to make a bracket to hold the Rx8 compressor and fit a tensioner pulley. Honestly it's probably more work to remove it; it fits relatively in the same spot as on the Renesis and the entire AC system can be reused. Other than that it's simple really. Check out my thread with pictures of it in place.
Thank you, will do. It would be nice to keep it as somewhat a touring car. It’s not going to be tracked. Just a little weekend sleeper.
I used the rx8 front cover. IIRC you can use the front two bolts to hold the ac compressor, but you cant use the two bolts that go into the REW front iron. You do have to shave a little iron off the front iron plate to get the ac compressor to hug the engine correctly.
With using the two front bolts on the rx8 front cover and that little material removed from the iron, the ac compressor mounted and worked fine. A few years back I commented on a post on how to make the rx8 compressor work with the swap and included pictures.
Maybe I can just send that portion of the thread to the shop and they can use it for reference. Sounds cheaper than using a $427 billet bracket that may or may not work.
My AC worked fine and normally I haven't been driving much in the summer, but this year I have driven it more and the OEM size radiator that was blocked by the condenser was just to much to keep my high idle bridge-port from creeping up in the 200-210 F range.
Ok well I’ll be using a Koyo Rad so maybe that will help in that case. My block is stock port so lower idle may help in traffic situations.
Originally Posted by strokercharged95gt
Oh and my mustang has a Precision Turbo 7675 (not supercharged). I have some NT-05 (295/40/18) coming in the mail as the current tires won't hold power above 4,000 RPMs even with as little as 5 psi on the motor. Last time I had the car to the track it had a Procharged P1SC supercharger and ran low 12s at 119 mph in full street trim with short-shifting 1st and 2nd to keep tire spin down. Hopefully I can take this to the track in the next few weeks and should be an easy 11 second time slip as I just took 60lbs off the front end and took out the stiff lowering springs in the front for softer coilovers and power should be up at least 50-60 hp and traction should be much better going to 27.4" OD drag radials.
Thats pretty damn good. 11’s should be easy with a softer suspension and some drag radials. What made you want to switch from the supercharger to a turbo? More power on the top end? Tuning ability?
Thanks Stroker, no more hijacking your thread. Will read back some more on you and RotaryMachines threads.
Ok well I’ll be using a Koyo Rad so maybe that will help in that case. My block is stock port so lower idle may help in traffic situations.
Thats pretty damn good. 11’s should be easy with a softer suspension and some drag radials. What made you want to switch from the supercharger to a turbo? More power on the top end? Tuning ability?
Thanks Stroker, no more hijacking your thread. Will read back some more on you and RotaryMachines threads.
The Procharged sounded great (I got one of the first kits that had a FMIC and the head unit was self contained), you could hear it whining from a block away. Linear power-band made it easy to tune and hold power from 0-6,000 RPMs. Car was making 450 rwhp about 20 years ago when nobody was making that kinda power. The bypass valve would always be open in vacuum to keep the extra air from the supercharger being crammed down the engine when not WOT. So the car would come around the corner and you would hear a deafening whine and a ton of air being pushed out the bypass valve. Most people didn't know what to make of it.
As with anything, I got bored of it and went turbo instead to give myself a new project. Actually found a guy online who had a ton of problems with the turbo kit and traded me for the SC kit straight up. Boredom has cost me a lot of money.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 08-24-2020 at 02:01 PM.
The Procharged sounded great (I got one of the first kits that had a FMIC and the head unit was self contained), you could hear it whining from a block away. Linear power-band made it easy to tune and hold power from 0-6,000 RPMs. Car was making 450 rwhp about 20 years ago when nobody was making that kinda power. The bypass valve would always be open in vacuum to keep the extra air from the supercharger being crammed down the engine when not WOT. So the car would come around the corner and you would hear a deafening whine and a ton of air being pushed out the bypass valve. Most people didn't know what to make of it.
As with anything, I got bored of it and went turbo instead to give myself a new project. Actually found a guy online who had a ton of problems with the turbo kit and traded me for the SC kit straight up. Boredom has cost me a lot of money.
Must of sounded like a Banshee out of hell with the whine .
Boredom is quite expensive...turbo mustangs are capable of big power though. Those 3 valves are pretty decent for the price.
Maybe I can just send that portion of the thread to the shop and they can use it for reference. Sounds cheaper than using a $427 billet bracket that may or may not work.
Well it’s entirely your choice, but there’s no may or may not work. The bracket is designed specifically for 13B REW, 13B Cosmos, or 20B in an RX8 chassis. If you looked at the pics, it’s essentially the equivalent to a reinforced OE cast bracket, except machined from solid billet material that bolts onto the 13B front cover.
Best wishes intended only. I just knew there was at least one available in the aftermarket and posted it as FYI for anyone else out there as much as yourself.
.
07-19-2020, 03:12 PM
.