About had it with the MPG ...
09-20-2006, 09:16 AM
#51
I bet a lot of the frustration with the 8's mileage stems from a basic perception/reality problem: even little kids "know," intuitively, that small, lightweight engines (and the small, lightweight cars that use them) offer good gas mileage. Logical enough, and always true—unless the small, lightweight engine happens to be a rotary. Even seasoned auto journalists seem to forget that while the rotary engine may be small and light, it is, by nature, not very fuel efficient. Which begs the question: if the rotary isn't fuel efficient, what's the point of it—why not just have a piston engine that uses less gas and has more power? The answer, as a few of us (the ones who are keeping our cars) know, is smoothness, "feel," and handling. The small size and weight of the Renesis allows it to sit low and far back in the car which, I believe, is largely why the car feels different from all other cars, and why it "feels" so good. (This is a Mazda "thing," by the way—they've always focused on the "feel" of the car—not its power. It's why I love Mazdas.) Anyway, many people are willing to trade good fuel economy for power. But trade good fuel economy for… "smoothness, feel and handling"!?! That does not compute!
Little engine + poor mileage = disappointment.
(For the record, I get around 19.5 mpg, 40% city/60% highway. I'm happy with that. If I got only 12 or 13 mpg, I'd be disappointed, too.)
Little engine + poor mileage = disappointment.
(For the record, I get around 19.5 mpg, 40% city/60% highway. I'm happy with that. If I got only 12 or 13 mpg, I'd be disappointed, too.)
09-20-2006, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by zeblien
2mpg difference: Lets see here.
@ $2.50 per gallon, the difference between a 250mile driving week would be $3.47, or a savings of $180 per year.
12mpg difference (18city vs 30city):
@ $2.50 per gallon, the difference betweek a 250mile drive week would be $13.88, or a savings of $722 per year.
@50mpg difference
@ $2.50 per gallon, the difference betweek a 250mile drive week would be $22.20, or a savings of $1154 per year.
@ $2.50 per gallon, the difference between a 250mile driving week would be $3.47, or a savings of $180 per year.
12mpg difference (18city vs 30city):
@ $2.50 per gallon, the difference betweek a 250mile drive week would be $13.88, or a savings of $722 per year.
@50mpg difference
@ $2.50 per gallon, the difference betweek a 250mile drive week would be $22.20, or a savings of $1154 per year.
I personally didn't get rid of the RX8 for the fuel economy. However, having a faster car with better fuel economy makes me love my Mustang that much more.
09-20-2006, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by New Yorker
Anyway, many people are willing to trade good fuel economy for power. But trade good fuel economy for… "smoothness, feel and handling"!?! That does not compute!
Little engine + poor mileage = disappointment.
Little engine + poor mileage = disappointment.
09-20-2006, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by zeblien
Ya but what fun is it to have a car that you always see behind you, infront of you, parked on either side of you, and in every parking lot in america?
True.....that is a downside. Luckily the aftermarket offers plenty of goodies to make my Mustang unique.
09-20-2006, 09:33 AM
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No... im afraid all mustangs look alike. Body mods hardly hide that fact. The one mustang that isnt everywhere, or looks like all the others is my favorite...the mach1.
09-20-2006, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by zeblien
No... im afraid all mustangs look alike. Body mods hardly hide that fact. The one mustang that isnt everywhere, or looks like all the others is my favorite...the mach1.
Well no one wants to change the look of the Mustang that much....the look is the reason they bought it. But different wheels and certain body kits definitely make modded stangs stand out in the crowd. Only cookie-cut stockers blend-in with the background. You can't tell me the Foose Stallion, Roush 427R or the Saleen S281E don't grab your attention.
09-20-2006, 09:48 AM
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Dude go rent a few cars. 90% of the problem is you. I rent a car every week for work. I have yet to find a car that give me significant better mileage except for a POS like a corolla.
They all get very similar mileage..
I drive them all the same, and for the most part, they all get around 22 MPG, incluiding my RX8. The list would include, Taurus', Grand Marquis, S-60's, Autocross Wagons, Hyundai Santa Fe, Grand Prix, Explorer's, HHR's.. Too many to even think of.
They all get very similar mileage..
I drive them all the same, and for the most part, they all get around 22 MPG, incluiding my RX8. The list would include, Taurus', Grand Marquis, S-60's, Autocross Wagons, Hyundai Santa Fe, Grand Prix, Explorer's, HHR's.. Too many to even think of.
09-20-2006, 10:28 AM
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Possible to Add Second Gas Tank
Ok, Zeblien, seems like a silly question to me but I've got to ask:
Is it in fact possible to add a second tank on the 8? I can't imagine that this would be allowed by the government agencies that regulate safety. If it is possible, I will do it and keep the car.
Again, this has less to do about money than it does about wasting my time stopping for gas every two days.
Dan
Is it in fact possible to add a second tank on the 8? I can't imagine that this would be allowed by the government agencies that regulate safety. If it is possible, I will do it and keep the car.
Again, this has less to do about money than it does about wasting my time stopping for gas every two days.
Dan
Originally Posted by zeblien
Why dont you just put a 2nd gas tank in the trunk? That would solve the issue.
09-20-2006, 10:32 AM
#61
I would disagree with many things you state here. The mpg for the power is on the bottom of the automobile scale. I have seen 400hp cars get better mpg. The simple fact is that the rotary is a thermodynamically inefficient design, it is inherent in the engine which I know you are aware of. This also explains why Mazda is the only manufacture making this engine. The fact that some RX mpg perform so much worst then other is a problem Mazda is choosing to ignore. We had one owner who was getting 11mpg and Mazda said every thing was fine so he lived with it. He then bought a new model which is basically the same car and his mileage was suddenly at 17mpg driving the exact same route.
I'll also take you up on your challenge to get 18mpg driving my car on the roads I drive. It is plain and simple not going to happen. The best I have ever hit in the city was a little over 13mph driving it very conservatively normally I average 12mpg. If you think you'll get an additional 5-6 mpg while not even driving like a snail.... Show me, it's not going to happen.
I don't argue that this car is not a blast to drive but lets not fool ourselves into thinking that it gets as good mileage as comparable cars. I really enjoy this car and I feel there is something wrong with it that Mazda will not correct.
I'll also take you up on your challenge to get 18mpg driving my car on the roads I drive. It is plain and simple not going to happen. The best I have ever hit in the city was a little over 13mph driving it very conservatively normally I average 12mpg. If you think you'll get an additional 5-6 mpg while not even driving like a snail.... Show me, it's not going to happen.
I don't argue that this car is not a blast to drive but lets not fool ourselves into thinking that it gets as good mileage as comparable cars. I really enjoy this car and I feel there is something wrong with it that Mazda will not correct.
Originally Posted by rotarygod
The RX-8's mileage isn't far off from many other cars out there. Sadly enough people have to relate size rather than fun to mileage to make it worth it. If you are driving around in an Excursion all day or an RX-8 all day and they both get the same mileage (the RX-8 will definitely do better but let's just pretend!), why was the RX-8's mileage suddenly so bad? I'm assuming that both are being driven purely as a form of transportation like many of the poeple here do with big vehicles they never use properly. Frame of reference here.
If people wanted gas mileage, they wouldn't have bought an RX-8. They'd have bought an econobox! It's that simple. There is no point in trying to compare it to other cars in it's "class", or any other engine. It is what it is. I don't understand why people are willing to pay more for some cars that get bad gas mileage while others are willing to drive big vehicles around that get bad gas mileage but when it comes to driving a very reasonably car that gets mediocre gas mileage it suddenly sucks. What part of that makes no sense? There are also cars that get better mileage that are cheaper and some are more expensive. Why do some people act like this car alone sucks at gas mileage? It isn't far off from a very large percentage of cars on the road. When it comes to transportation, mileage is mileage and a car is a car. When it comes to fun you'll need to decide what's worth it to you.
I can say from having owned several rotaries over the years that the difference between 14 mpg and 18 mpg city is not very much on the accelerator pedal. I guarantee I can get 18 mpg on ANYONE'S RX-8 in the city and I won't have to drive like a snail to do it. I just know how and it's easy. If your mileage sucks, change your technique. If it still sucks and makes you unhappy, change your car or your attitude towards it but don't try to keep both.
Rant over.
If people wanted gas mileage, they wouldn't have bought an RX-8. They'd have bought an econobox! It's that simple. There is no point in trying to compare it to other cars in it's "class", or any other engine. It is what it is. I don't understand why people are willing to pay more for some cars that get bad gas mileage while others are willing to drive big vehicles around that get bad gas mileage but when it comes to driving a very reasonably car that gets mediocre gas mileage it suddenly sucks. What part of that makes no sense? There are also cars that get better mileage that are cheaper and some are more expensive. Why do some people act like this car alone sucks at gas mileage? It isn't far off from a very large percentage of cars on the road. When it comes to transportation, mileage is mileage and a car is a car. When it comes to fun you'll need to decide what's worth it to you.
I can say from having owned several rotaries over the years that the difference between 14 mpg and 18 mpg city is not very much on the accelerator pedal. I guarantee I can get 18 mpg on ANYONE'S RX-8 in the city and I won't have to drive like a snail to do it. I just know how and it's easy. If your mileage sucks, change your technique. If it still sucks and makes you unhappy, change your car or your attitude towards it but don't try to keep both.
Rant over.
Last edited by Raptor75; 09-20-2006 at 10:43 AM.
09-20-2006, 10:34 AM
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Yes you can add a second tank without penalty. You would not want to put it in the trunk, cause if you were rearended, there would be a big explosion. Adding a larger tank would be possible, but I havent seen any mods for that (nor have I looked).
09-20-2006, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Raptor75
I would disagree with many things you state here. The mpg for the performance is on the bottom of the automobile scale. I have seen 400hp cars get better mpg. The simple fact is that the rotary is a thermodynamically inefficient design, it is inherent in the engine which I know you are aware of. This also explains why Mazda is the only manufacture making this engine. The fact that some cars perform so much worst then other is a problem Mazda is choosing to ignore. We had one owner who was getting 11mpg and Mazda said every thing was fine so he lived with it. He then bought a new model which is basically the same car and his mileage was suddenly at 17mpg driving the exact same route.
I'll also take you up on your challenge to get 18mpg driving my car on the roads I drive. It is plain and simple not going to happen. The best I have ever hit in the city was a little over 13mph driving it very conservatively normally I average 12mpg. If you think you get an additional 5-6 mpg while not even driving like a snail. Show me it's not going to happen.
I don't argue that this car is not a blast to drive but lets not fool ourselves into thinking that it gets as good mileage as comparable cars. I really enjoy this car and I feel there is something wrong with it that Mazda will not correct.
I'll also take you up on your challenge to get 18mpg driving my car on the roads I drive. It is plain and simple not going to happen. The best I have ever hit in the city was a little over 13mph driving it very conservatively normally I average 12mpg. If you think you get an additional 5-6 mpg while not even driving like a snail. Show me it's not going to happen.
I don't argue that this car is not a blast to drive but lets not fool ourselves into thinking that it gets as good mileage as comparable cars. I really enjoy this car and I feel there is something wrong with it that Mazda will not correct.
I SAY AGAIN. at the 3/4 line, its about 10.5-11 gallons to fill up. I get 17mph city driving wihtout problem, since the beginning. and 22+ while driving mostly highway (stop and go at least 10 minutes a day on highway).
09-20-2006, 10:41 AM
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Not to brag, but I get an avg. of 19mpg when I'm doing almost 100% in city..that includes frequent redlining (at least once a week)...it is unfortunate that other 8's have such bad gas mileage (15 and below)...guess, it depends on who built your engine, huh? They should look into that..why some 8 have bad gas mileage, find the group that worked on that vs. others who have good mileage..long shot though..
09-20-2006, 10:47 AM
#65
Originally Posted by icyur2
Not to brag, but I get an avg. of 19mpg when I'm doing almost 100% in city..that includes frequent redlining (at least once a week)...it is unfortunate that other 8's have such bad gas mileage (15 and below)...guess, it depends on who built your engine, huh? They should look into that..why some 8 have bad gas mileage, find the group that worked on that vs. others who have good mileage..long shot though..
I have been hammering Mazda since I bought the car do do this but as soon as they heard bad gas mileage the conversation ends and they tell you to live with it. This is the only thing I really hate about this car. Mazda is the worst in regards to service and support of its clients. This was even shown in the resent JD Power survey which rated Mazda 3rd from the bottom of all car manufactures with regards to their service.
Last edited by Raptor75; 09-20-2006 at 11:48 AM.
09-20-2006, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by zeblien
Yes you can add a second tank without penalty. You would not want to put it in the trunk, cause if you were rearended, there would be a big explosion. Adding a larger tank would be possible, but I havent seen any mods for that (nor have I looked).
Without penalty??? Surely you do not work for Mazda so you should not be making that statement. I can tell you that with Ford, if you were to modify the fuel system to add an auxiliary fuel tank that your entire warranty would be voided.
09-20-2006, 11:01 AM
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That is unfortunate..and I know what you mean..I had to fight them until I got one MNAO on my side and he was kind enough to offer a one time goodwill gesture to get my issue resolve (stupid label on the CD player got sucked into my vacuum as I was cleaning it). Suffice to say, after that incident, my opinion of them was better...now, Nissan on the other hand...they are the PITA!!! Threw, "we reserve the rights to make any changes to the vehicle without telling the consumer," bullshit when they couldn't find out why my vehicle didn't have the option that it advertised for the car (Quest van). SO, I guess it just depends on who you get to talk to and how that person is willing to work with the customer...unfortunately, seems like customer service is going down-hill for most vendors..
Nevertheless, it would be kewl if Mazda do some research, find out which owners are getting good/bad mileage (via survey), make a huge database to record those, and then see if there are any connections (i.e. built by one group vs. other, etc.). It could all be just quality control issue...I mean...I know I'm not the only one who gets this type of mileage!! AND, I'm using 87 octane to boot!!!
Nevertheless, it would be kewl if Mazda do some research, find out which owners are getting good/bad mileage (via survey), make a huge database to record those, and then see if there are any connections (i.e. built by one group vs. other, etc.). It could all be just quality control issue...I mean...I know I'm not the only one who gets this type of mileage!! AND, I'm using 87 octane to boot!!!
09-20-2006, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by bascho
Without penalty??? Surely you do not work for Mazda so you should not be making that statement. I can tell you that with Ford, if you were to modify the fuel system to add an auxiliary fuel tank that your entire warranty would be voided.
He was refering to the law. There will be a penalty from mazda lol.
09-20-2006, 12:20 PM
#71
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Originally Posted by Raptor75
I would disagree with many things you state here. The mpg for the power is on the bottom of the automobile scale. I have seen 400hp cars get better mpg. The simple fact is that the rotary is a thermodynamically inefficient design, it is inherent in the engine which I know you are aware of. This also explains why Mazda is the only manufacture making this engine. The fact that some RX mpg perform so much worst then other is a problem Mazda is choosing to ignore. We had one owner who was getting 11mpg and Mazda said every thing was fine so he lived with it. He then bought a new model which is basically the same car and his mileage was suddenly at 17mpg driving the exact same route.
I'll also take you up on your challenge to get 18mpg driving my car on the roads I drive. It is plain and simple not going to happen. The best I have ever hit in the city was a little over 13mph driving it very conservatively normally I average 12mpg. If you think you'll get an additional 5-6 mpg while not even driving like a snail.... Show me, it's not going to happen.
I don't argue that this car is not a blast to drive but lets not fool ourselves into thinking that it gets as good mileage as comparable cars. I really enjoy this car and I feel there is something wrong with it that Mazda will not correct.
I'll also take you up on your challenge to get 18mpg driving my car on the roads I drive. It is plain and simple not going to happen. The best I have ever hit in the city was a little over 13mph driving it very conservatively normally I average 12mpg. If you think you'll get an additional 5-6 mpg while not even driving like a snail.... Show me, it's not going to happen.
I don't argue that this car is not a blast to drive but lets not fool ourselves into thinking that it gets as good mileage as comparable cars. I really enjoy this car and I feel there is something wrong with it that Mazda will not correct.
Last year during the hurricane Rita evacuation, I drove Brillo's RX-8 out of here. He was with me. Since traffic was the worst I've ever seen or heard about anywhere, we took many small stop and go back roads. For several hours we were caught in barely moving traffic and at one point in the course of 3 hours we probably moved 3-4 miles. All of that time is a waste of gas and much of it was move a few feet at a time, stop, move a few feet, stop. That wastes gas. Sometimes we were in a line that was moving at 20 mph. This is a speed that gets terrible mileage. All of those little roads we were on required lots of acceleration and deceleration. We never turned the car off when sitting in traffic. When we filled up, I had still gotten over 20 mpg. 18 is SIMPLE!!!! It's about how you drive it. Learn to!
For daily driving, there is no point in revving the engine up over 3000 rpm before you shift. Even this is still faster in acceleration than my Honda and many small cars so don't think this is driving like a snail. It easily keeps up with traffic. By 35 mph when cruising around, I am usually already in 6th gear. Brillo always thinks it's weird and tends to look over at the rpm's just to be sure. We drive very differently and I don't get where I am going any slower. For freeway driving there is no point in anyone anywhere going over 70 mph. Your gas mileage will fall like a rock above this. When you decelerate, do it in gear. There is fuel cutoff during deceleration and this is free mileage. Try to drive as close to 55 as possible. This means driving slower on surface streets is less efficient. Just don't get carried away and do 55 in a 20. That wouldn't be good. I get around no slower than Brillo or anyone else on the road. I just know how to drive a rotary and get at least the mileage it is rated for. It's easy.
Some cars may have issues. If some have low compression, they probably do get worse mileage. These are the cars that need to be taken in to be checked by the current recall. If your engine is running fine and your mileage is low, it's not the car!
Last edited by rotarygod; 09-20-2006 at 12:22 PM.
09-20-2006, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by alcimedes
I don't think anyone is saying he can't sell his car, rather that his logic is flawed if he thinks he's going to save money by selling this car and buying one with better gas milage.
The point is, he'll likely never make that money back (taking the hit on the RX8, paying for the new car etc.). So if that's his only reason to sell, he shouldn't be selling.
The point is, he'll likely never make that money back (taking the hit on the RX8, paying for the new car etc.). So if that's his only reason to sell, he shouldn't be selling.
