Acura TL = Sports Car... rx-8 = not?
06-28-2009, 01:22 AM
#51
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Why are you listing only the R34 skyline? Why not mention all Skyline GT-Rs? It's also very hard to classify the Skyline... super car performance packaged in an almost sedan-ish body minus two doors.
06-28-2009, 02:52 AM
#56
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There's an easy way to solve this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acura_TL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_RX-8
Wikipedia never lies, if he tries to argue, punch him in mouth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acura_TL
class: 4-door sedan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_RX-8
class: sports car
Wikipedia never lies, if he tries to argue, punch him in mouth.
06-28-2009, 05:21 AM
#58
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Sports car isnt about hp alone, of course it cant be slow but its more the layout and what it was made for.
Take a good look under the skin of RX-8 and you soon understand what Mazda was planning when whey was building it, it was designed for taking directly out on track racing after some small modifications.
Look under the skin of a Acura and you will see a good saloon car for highway use.
thats it, tell him he is a Honda moron, we have them in Sweden to. its so funny when they think their Civic will keep up with porsches and ferraris on track just because they have a 5" fart can.
I personally love Hondas but just as BMW I cant stand the owners.
06-28-2009, 07:30 AM
#59
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06-28-2009, 08:32 AM
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to me, sports cars is all about the driving experience.
Performance cars is all about... well, performance.
Not all sports cars are performance cars, and not all performance cars are sports cars,
Performance cars is all about... well, performance.
Not all sports cars are performance cars, and not all performance cars are sports cars,
06-28-2009, 12:43 PM
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06-28-2009, 12:50 PM
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Driving experience is relative. If you think a car that handles great is what the driving experience is all about, then you've just ruled out a ton of sports cars and probably vintage sports cars in particular. Driving those old cars has something else as part of the driving experience don't they? And driving a MB S-Class is a totally different experience. So what are you referring to?
Performance is also relative, performance in what? Ride? Handling? Grip? NVH? People Carrying? Fuel mileage? Carbon footprint? People guy Priuses for their ecological "performance."
Obviously the friend of the person who started this thread only said what he said in a feeble attempt to defend his ego for not having bought a true sports car. He bought what he liked and probably had people carrying in mind when he bought it. Hauling friends around is damned important to some people. Which is great, people should always buy a car that does the things that are important to them. It just sucks when people get into a pissing contest over their egos and who has the fastest car.
I'm pretty sure everyone here wasn't really buying an RX-8 purely to boost their cockometer gauge, we leave that to the 350z/G35 crowd.
Performance is also relative, performance in what? Ride? Handling? Grip? NVH? People Carrying? Fuel mileage? Carbon footprint? People guy Priuses for their ecological "performance."
Obviously the friend of the person who started this thread only said what he said in a feeble attempt to defend his ego for not having bought a true sports car. He bought what he liked and probably had people carrying in mind when he bought it. Hauling friends around is damned important to some people. Which is great, people should always buy a car that does the things that are important to them. It just sucks when people get into a pissing contest over their egos and who has the fastest car.
I'm pretty sure everyone here wasn't really buying an RX-8 purely to boost their cockometer gauge, we leave that to the 350z/G35 crowd.
06-28-2009, 12:59 PM
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Driving experience is relative. If you think a car that handles great is what the driving experience is all about, then you've just ruled out a ton of sports cars and probably vintage sports cars in particular. Driving those old cars has something else as part of the driving experience don't they? And driving a MB S-Class is a totally different experience. So what are you referring to
While vintage sports cars were phenomenal providing driving experiences over other cars in other segments at that time, such as the classic S-Class, most can't compare when it comes to today's standards (like all technologies, things will always improve over time).
I think people bidding 6 to 7 figures for these vintage sports cars aren't bidding for their ability on the roads, but rather the memory they had since childhood, and what better driving experience can you have than re-living your childhood dream?
06-28-2009, 01:14 PM
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My girlfriend argues her Civic (non SI) is a sports car because it is a coupe (AT)... she is probably the most hardcore honda fanboi I have ever meet. I have stopped trying to argue with her.
06-28-2009, 01:19 PM
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I don't think this is a discussion on racing pedigree. WRC rules are also written so that people can't use purpose built cars. So they're forced to make WRC cars out of everyday economy cars and then on top of that, they're forced to homologate a certain amount of the systems in the car and that's where you get the road going EVOs and STIs. It's not far fetched to say they are wannabe rally cars.
RX-8s are they're own thing from the ground up. How is that wannabe? They don't want to be anything else. Their owners don't need them to be anything else. Everything you see on an RX-8 is face value, how is that wannabe?
This is not a matter of giving credit.
06-28-2009, 01:22 PM
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That's a picture of a road going EVO that you can buy at the dealer, therefore it is the "wannabe" to the WRC car that did indeed win the WRC ("drivers?") championship.
I don't think this is a discussion on racing pedigree. WRC rules are also written so that people can't use purpose built cars. So they're forced to make WRC cars out of everyday economy cars and then on top of that, they're forced to homologate a certain amount of the systems in the car and that's where you get the road going EVOs and STIs. It's not far fetched to say they are wannabe rally cars.
RX-8s are they're own thing from the ground up. How is that wannabe? They don't want to be anything else. Their owners don't need them to be anything else. Everything you see on an RX-8 is face value, how is that wannabe?
This is not a matter of giving credit.
I don't think this is a discussion on racing pedigree. WRC rules are also written so that people can't use purpose built cars. So they're forced to make WRC cars out of everyday economy cars and then on top of that, they're forced to homologate a certain amount of the systems in the car and that's where you get the road going EVOs and STIs. It's not far fetched to say they are wannabe rally cars.
RX-8s are they're own thing from the ground up. How is that wannabe? They don't want to be anything else. Their owners don't need them to be anything else. Everything you see on an RX-8 is face value, how is that wannabe?
This is not a matter of giving credit.
holy jeez. I was just kidding guys ... but that!!! ... that is a seriously good answer!!! rwd ftw!!!
06-28-2009, 01:26 PM
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All this Honda hating going on in here... you guys let the dumb people of any group of car enthusiasts determine your impression of all the people who own them. If that's the case, have you guys met some Subaru owners?
06-28-2009, 01:38 PM
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That's a picture of a road going EVO that you can buy at the dealer, therefore it is the "wannabe" to the WRC car that did indeed win the WRC ("drivers?") championship.
I don't think this is a discussion on racing pedigree. WRC rules are also written so that people can't use purpose built cars. So they're forced to make WRC cars out of everyday economy cars and then on top of that, they're forced to homologate a certain amount of the systems in the car and that's where you get the road going EVOs and STIs. It's not far fetched to say they are wannabe rally cars.
RX-8s are they're own thing from the ground up. How is that wannabe? They don't want to be anything else. Their owners don't need them to be anything else. Everything you see on an RX-8 is face value, how is that wannabe?
This is not a matter of giving credit.
I don't think this is a discussion on racing pedigree. WRC rules are also written so that people can't use purpose built cars. So they're forced to make WRC cars out of everyday economy cars and then on top of that, they're forced to homologate a certain amount of the systems in the car and that's where you get the road going EVOs and STIs. It's not far fetched to say they are wannabe rally cars.
RX-8s are they're own thing from the ground up. How is that wannabe? They don't want to be anything else. Their owners don't need them to be anything else. Everything you see on an RX-8 is face value, how is that wannabe?
This is not a matter of giving credit.
Eg, the Mitsubishi Evolution X RS, MML's Group N-spec Evo features
a)a custom roll-cage and fuel tank, along with
b)BOS dampers,
c)upgraded springs and
d)modified gearing.
Per Group N rules, the suspension geometry and engine must remain stock, and this "wannabe" car is a rally racer for Group N (PWRC - production WRC).
So no, that car is not a wannabe rally car, and you are wrong to say that they are wannabe rally car.
People disses Rx-8 since they thought it would hold the performance torch of the Mazda Rx-7 line, which, it didnt. Thats where the "wannabe" part came from.
06-28-2009, 01:41 PM
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I used to own an Acura TL, a 2005 (previous body style) with a 6 speed manual. It was a very nice, comfortable, practical, fun to drive, "sporty sedan". It was built on the Accord platform, which is not a bad thing, and probably also one of the more fun to drive sedans. I liked it, and probably should have kept it as a practical daily driver. But, it's also not what most people would consider a "sports" car (and I'm a big Honda fan, have a S2000 myself and my wife has a new Civic Coupe).
Almost any car that is interesting to drive could be called "sporty", but most people's definitions of "sports" involve an intensity and pureness of driving experience that a 4-door Honda sedan would not fulfill.
Almost any car that is interesting to drive could be called "sporty", but most people's definitions of "sports" involve an intensity and pureness of driving experience that a 4-door Honda sedan would not fulfill.
06-28-2009, 01:45 PM
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You are getting it the other way round. The homologate WRC car (sti, evo) are the closet thing you can have to be a real WRC car, so no, its not a wannabe car that have exterior decoration or whatever "shinka edition"/ "40th anni still no power upgrade edition" only. You can do Group N racing with just a few mods.
Eg, the Mitsubishi Evolution X RS, MML's Group N-spec Evo features
a)a custom roll-cage and fuel tank, along with
b)BOS dampers,
c)upgraded springs and
d)modified gearing.
Per Group N rules, the suspension geometry and engine must remain stock, and this "wannabe" car is a rally racer for Group N (PWRC - production WRC).
So no, that car is not a wannabe rally car, and you are wrong to say that they are wannabe rally car.
People disses Rx-8 since they thought it would hold the performance torch of the Mazda Rx-7 line, which, it didnt. Thats where the "wannabe" part came from.
Eg, the Mitsubishi Evolution X RS, MML's Group N-spec Evo features
a)a custom roll-cage and fuel tank, along with
b)BOS dampers,
c)upgraded springs and
d)modified gearing.
Per Group N rules, the suspension geometry and engine must remain stock, and this "wannabe" car is a rally racer for Group N (PWRC - production WRC).
So no, that car is not a wannabe rally car, and you are wrong to say that they are wannabe rally car.
People disses Rx-8 since they thought it would hold the performance torch of the Mazda Rx-7 line, which, it didnt. Thats where the "wannabe" part came from.
06-28-2009, 01:53 PM
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You are getting it the other way round. The homologate WRC car (sti, evo) are the closet thing you can have to be a real WRC car, so no, its not a wannabe car that have exterior decoration or whatever "shinka edition"/ "40th anni still no power upgrade edition" only. You can do Group N racing with just a few mods.
Eg, the Mitsubishi Evolution X RS, MML's Group N-spec Evo features
a)a custom roll-cage and fuel tank, along with
b)BOS dampers,
c)upgraded springs and
d)modified gearing.
Per Group N rules, the suspension geometry and engine must remain stock, and this "wannabe" car is a rally racer for Group N (PWRC - production WRC).
So no, that car is not a wannabe rally car, and you are wrong to say that they are wannabe rally car.
People disses Rx-8 since they thought it would hold the performance torch of the Mazda Rx-7 line, which, it didnt. Thats where the "wannabe" part came from.
Eg, the Mitsubishi Evolution X RS, MML's Group N-spec Evo features
a)a custom roll-cage and fuel tank, along with
b)BOS dampers,
c)upgraded springs and
d)modified gearing.
Per Group N rules, the suspension geometry and engine must remain stock, and this "wannabe" car is a rally racer for Group N (PWRC - production WRC).
So no, that car is not a wannabe rally car, and you are wrong to say that they are wannabe rally car.
People disses Rx-8 since they thought it would hold the performance torch of the Mazda Rx-7 line, which, it didnt. Thats where the "wannabe" part came from.
You're telling me that the custom roll cage isn't designed to be cheater and tied into the car at two dozen chassis points that basically alter it into something else? What about the "custom gears?" Is that not a sequential gear box that's not in the normal car? Are these the same rules from when the car won the championship as you say? I recall for a long time that they ran custom double wishbone suspensions with in-board, pushrod, rocker, and spring/damper combos.
People can diss the RX-8 all they want. I have an FD and I can tell you that overall that I still enjoy the 8 more than the 7. The power thing is a wash, you don't need power to enjoy driving. I think running out of a gear, just when your engine is getting to the good part is ridiculous (like EVO/STIs).
You make good points, I don't disagree with the way your logic follows. I just think that when the manufacturers made the EVO and STI (and their WRC counter parts), they had Lancers and Imprezas in mind FIRST.
When Mazda made the RX-8, it was an RX-8 FIRST, and that's it. It is what it is, not a race car, not a pure sports car, not sport compact car. I would call it something in between a GT car and a sports car.
06-28-2009, 01:59 PM
#74
Rotary Powered Countryboy
I think that's a pretty good indicator that you need to take immediate action to fix the problem.
All this Honda hating going on in here... you guys let the dumb people of any group of car enthusiasts determine your impression of all the people who own them. If that's the case, have you guys met some Subaru owners?
All this Honda hating going on in here... you guys let the dumb people of any group of car enthusiasts determine your impression of all the people who own them. If that's the case, have you guys met some Subaru owners?
first off I am not a EVO STI etc etc fanboi...all I know is that my friends has an evoVIII just with a few mods catless exhaust boost controller and cams and this thing blows me away on all aspects We went to the tail of the dragon(tailofthedragon.com if u the almighty of sports cars doesn't know what that is) and that thing handles like a dream as do our 8's but with AWD and the powerplant that has I could not keep up because of the extra power out of the turns that he had...through the turns yeah i could take them just as fast as him but accelerating out of the turns the power is just ridiculous..
So I am not a fan of the 4 door economy box like the EVO and STI but I'm not ashamed to say it's a great car and truly well put together.
Defenition of sports car according to thefreedictionary.com-An automobile equipped for racing, especially an aerodynamically shaped one-passenger or two-passenger vehicle having a low center of gravity and steering and suspension designed for precise control at high speeds.
So the 8 somewhat equipped for racing as is the AWD crowd
Aerodynamically shaped...yes to both crowds
1 or 2 pass. No for both crowds
Low center of gravity etc etc- Yes both crowds
So, technically the 8 is not a sports car nor is the AWD class I mentioned before....
So if YOU think that HONDA's are sports cars that is also a false statement EXCEPT for the exception of the S2000...so technically is a HONDA S2000 a sports car? By definition YES it is....is your DD civic? No, by definition...
So as said above I am not a AWD fanboi just able to say that they are good car for the people who like them....
As for your statement for the Skyline I listed the R34 because I belive it is the most "historic" skyline as of this far...but yes just for YOU all the skylines will live in the class with the R34...HOWEVER they are not true sports cars either according to the definition of sports car....
thank you and keep trying
06-28-2009, 02:13 PM
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OK MR. 50 posts....
first off I am not a EVO STI etc etc fanboi...all I know is that my friends has an evoVIII just with a few mods catless exhaust boost controller and cams and this thing blows me away on all aspects We went to the tail of the dragon(tailofthedragon.com if u the almighty of sports cars doesn't know what that is) and that thing handles like a dream as do our 8's but with AWD and the powerplant that has I could not keep up because of the extra power out of the turns that he had...through the turns yeah i could take them just as fast as him but accelerating out of the turns the power is just ridiculous..
So I am not a fan of the 4 door economy box like the EVO and STI but I'm not ashamed to say it's a great car and truly well put together.
Defenition of sports car according to thefreedictionary.com-An automobile equipped for racing, especially an aerodynamically shaped one-passenger or two-passenger vehicle having a low center of gravity and steering and suspension designed for precise control at high speeds.
So the 8 somewhat equipped for racing as is the AWD crowd
Aerodynamically shaped...yes to both crowds
1 or 2 pass. No for both crowds
Low center of gravity etc etc- Yes both crowds
So, technically the 8 is not a sports car nor is the AWD class I mentioned before....
So if YOU think that HONDA's are sports cars that is also a false statement EXCEPT for the exception of the S2000...so technically is a HONDA S2000 a sports car? By definition YES it is....is your DD civic? No, by definition...
So as said above I am not a AWD fanboi just able to say that they are good car for the people who like them....
As for your statement for the Skyline I listed the R34 because I belive it is the most "historic" skyline as of this far...but yes just for YOU all the skylines will live in the class with the R34...HOWEVER they are not true sports cars either according to the definition of sports car....
thank you and keep trying
first off I am not a EVO STI etc etc fanboi...all I know is that my friends has an evoVIII just with a few mods catless exhaust boost controller and cams and this thing blows me away on all aspects We went to the tail of the dragon(tailofthedragon.com if u the almighty of sports cars doesn't know what that is) and that thing handles like a dream as do our 8's but with AWD and the powerplant that has I could not keep up because of the extra power out of the turns that he had...through the turns yeah i could take them just as fast as him but accelerating out of the turns the power is just ridiculous..
So I am not a fan of the 4 door economy box like the EVO and STI but I'm not ashamed to say it's a great car and truly well put together.
Defenition of sports car according to thefreedictionary.com-An automobile equipped for racing, especially an aerodynamically shaped one-passenger or two-passenger vehicle having a low center of gravity and steering and suspension designed for precise control at high speeds.
So the 8 somewhat equipped for racing as is the AWD crowd
Aerodynamically shaped...yes to both crowds
1 or 2 pass. No for both crowds
Low center of gravity etc etc- Yes both crowds
So, technically the 8 is not a sports car nor is the AWD class I mentioned before....
So if YOU think that HONDA's are sports cars that is also a false statement EXCEPT for the exception of the S2000...so technically is a HONDA S2000 a sports car? By definition YES it is....is your DD civic? No, by definition...
So as said above I am not a AWD fanboi just able to say that they are good car for the people who like them....
As for your statement for the Skyline I listed the R34 because I belive it is the most "historic" skyline as of this far...but yes just for YOU all the skylines will live in the class with the R34...HOWEVER they are not true sports cars either according to the definition of sports car....
thank you and keep trying
All you people who think I'm on here saying what I'm saying because I think the RX-8 and whatever else I own is the best thing since sliced bread is taking EVERYTHING I say with a tilt. The things I prefer to own and drive are what they are and they fit my lifestyle best. That's that. We were discussing what qualifies something as a sports car. Stop assuming when you read, read precisely into what I say. Where on EARTH did you read that I think Hondas (except NSX, S2k) are sports cars? I have no idea where you would get that, I certainly don't think they are sports cars. By the same token I don't think EVOs and STIs are sports cars (although they are much faster cars).
That is very cool that you've been to the tail of the dragon and yes the Almighty of Sports Cars (me) has heard of it, except that was from my motorcycle days. I wish I lived close enough to go there with my own car. It would be kind of lame to drive it with a rental.
What does having 50 posts have to do with anything? What does it mean when you have 3500 posts? Does that give you the right to talk down to someone or something?