i hope this doesnt sound too lame... but i have to cry out there for help. Ive driven an 88 rx7 convertible MT for the last 16 years and still on the original clutch! I dont drive hard, conservative rather, and feel that im pretty adept at driving a manual tran.

last month i rewarded myself with a new 8 MT, and have been driving around nearly 2 months. Initially the clutch felt very "springy" and if on a flat road and pulling off the pedal almost 3/4's of the way off, the car would begin to creep at idle speed and it was only then that i would apply gas and take off. I assume this is the proper way to drive without riding the clutch.

Lately ive noticed that with the clutch fully depressed and then coming off, at about 1/4 of its travel path out, it begins to creep forward and if i dont apply any gas, it will easily stall. Im wondering if i have premature clutch plate wear, or simply put, have i been driving incorrectly all these years.

my fiancee has a 911, and because of the size of her small feet, and the amazing recoil pressure of the 911 clutch, she would generally rev the engine to about 3k then ease off the clutch pedal and give more gas. I always assumed this was "riding the clutch" but her feet were to small to drive "heel-toe" off the pedal. She has replaced her clutch 1x, and im still on the orginal clutch in my 88 rx7.

My question is simply... have i been driving wrong all these years, or does anyone else notice this with their manual rx8?


despite all this i love this car, and am going in for my "M" flash tom.

thanks for any input!

 

Im a sales man at mazda and what u did is normal. I normaly have to tell the test driver to get the rpm up to at least 2k and start leting off with more gas. If not they stall75% of the time.

 

I can't say what the proper method is, but I have to ease up on the clutch in order to make the car shift smoothly during normal driving. If I don't, the car tends to take off jerky.

If I'm zooming around, I will shift hard, but that isn't generally a good idea with wife and kids in the car.

 

but isn't gassing before you begin to release the clutch, "riding the clutch"? i was always taught that its a balance between the 2 events, and that when one is cofortable with a car's tendencies, it becomes natural to find the sweet spot in which to apply the gas.

the reason why i started this post is that it seems that my sweet spot is getting shorter and shorter and that ultmately the car may stall with just a very slight release of the clutch pedal.

not sure if im just imagining this.

 

I bump the needle up to 2k or so and just as it starts to fall i start to let up on the clutch, then I apply gas for the sweet spot that u speak of. This is my rx8 Im speaking of, hope this helps. You didnt thinkId work at Mazda and not drive an RX8 did u?

 

Give it some time - it's very possible to engage the clutch without stalling, even below 1000rpm. It took me a whole month (3000 miles sitting in traffic, actually) to really get used to the clutch. Your left leg might develop an extra muscle. Even up hills, I will let the clutch catch (roughly 1/5 the way up) before any gas is applied. The only time I've stalled was during the initial test drive with the dealer's car.

 

It's not riding the clutch if you release the clutch properly and modulate the gas correctly, you have to gas it before the clutch engages or else you're going to bog and stall. I'm assuming you know this, but it does sound like your methods are a bit off, just give it a little more gas before you get to the friction point and all should be well. You're also probably not quite as used to the friction point on the RX-8 as you were on your old car, so you might just need a little more time.

 

This is going to sound very odd - but it seems easier to work work the clutch at night when the temperature is cooler, than in the day. I doubt there's any correlation, but I've noticed I can modulate the clutch and shift a lot smoother once it colder out. It almost seems as if the syncros are working better at night. Has anyone else experienced this oddity? Perhaps it's my imagination...

 

I have a related question about rev matching and double-clutching. I've read some older threads in which people gave a lot of good reasons why you don't need to double-clutch with modern cars, but if you don't double-clutch, how do you rev-match for down-shifts without riding the clutch?

 

Newbie question, but what is riding the clutch?

 

Seems like this topic comes up at least once a week...

Riding the clutch is when you take forever in letting up on the clutch pedal. I am sure more than one of us has smelled a riden clutch at least once in our lives.

An extreme example of riding the clutch would be: Revving the engine up to say... 4-5k. Then slowly letting the clutch up and moving at about 2-3mph for several feet. THAT is riding the cluth.

Shifting gears should be very smooth. Think of it more along the lines of a scale with weights to balance each side. You want to be somewhere in the middle and you really don't want to be too heavy on either side.

I personally give it a little gas and let up slow. I have an 85 Fiero GT with a 5 speed, a 98 F-150 w/5 Speed, and I have had two Saturns with 5 speeds. I have had to replace 0 clutches. I did have to adjust the presure plate on the Fiero but that is a different story.

I also sometimes have the problem of shifting while cruising and the car being a little jerky. I think part of the problem is that the 8 seems to have a "real" clutch. Over the past few years most cars have had "sissy" clutches that have very little feedback and are not very hard to push in. I remember the good old days of 66 Impalas with clutches that were so tight your left leg would get more muscular than the right. The 8 seems to have a nice balance of not being to hard to press in and having a good amount of feedback. Guess we all got spoiled witht he "sissy" clutches. =)

 

wow, postal you chimed in before I was able to do something I have yet to ever do on this site. I am going to do it anyway. I have always wanted to say this here. Here we go................
DAFS!


wow that was liberating

 

The engine has to be spinning to make the car move. Automotive 101. If the car isn't moving, neither are the gears. The clutch was designed to accommodate some frictional spinning, based on the fact that it has to match the gear speed to the engine speed (through friction). It's fine to give it some gas before letting the clutch out, it's how I've been driving all my life. Just don't do what postal defined as riding the clutch. That will make for an extremely short clutch life. However, giving it some gas before letting out the clutch is normal, and won't cause any excessive wear.

 

Nope, that's slipping the clutch. Riding the clutch is when you drive around between shifts and rest your left foot on the clutch pedal. The slight pressure of your foot resting on the clutch pedal can cause some slippage, which can result in wear and overheating.

doc.marx8 - what you describe is not proper starting procedure. It's absolutely normal, almost required, to give some throttle and rev a bit (~1.5K or 2K rpm) to start off from a stop - you have to rev a bit, gradually release the clutch while adding a bit more throttle, to get moving - it should take about 1 second, maybe 2, to get the car moving and have the clutch fully released. That process is certainly not called riding nor slipping the clutch - that's just a normal start. Your "no throttle until the clutch is released" procedure is not usual, and the process I described does not result in any clutch wear - I've never had to replace a clutch, some going over 200,000 km.

Regards,
Gordon

 

thanks for the insight gordon! i guess ive been doing it wrong all these years. ill just practice and give a little gas first then start easing off the clutch and then gradually gas more. to clarify things further, just to make sure im doing this correctly... if we are on a slight incline, and then taking our foot off the brakes and then releasing the clutch halfway, we can find a sweet spot, where the clutch will hold the car at a standstill. Now, is that detrimental to the clutch life if we hold the car there for prolonged periods of time before we give any gas. For years i just never gave any gas until the clutch was partially out and the car slowly rolling forward. Keep in mind that its a hairline difference between moving and abruptly stalling, but when comfortable with the car, its quite easy to find the sweet spot along the clutch travel.

i guess i've had poor techinique all these years, but thanks for the input, ill refine my driving skills from here on out.

 

i think it's like making love it all in the rythum

 

I've noticed my car can stall EASY when it's hot out.?

 

Using the clutch to hold the car stationary on a hill is VERY hard on the clutch! It is slipping the whole time you are doing that, and clutch life will definitely be reduced. You should be using the foot brake or hand brake to hold the car on a hill. Aside from the one or two seconds of clutch slip when starting from a stop, the ONLY time your foot should be any where near the clutch pedal is when shifting. Again, aside from moving away from a stop, the clutch should be either in or out, never halfway (slipping).

Regards,
Gordon

 

gotcha, im more clear on that now. thanks for the help!

 

Everyone seems to have skipped over an important part of the original post - his release point originally was at 3/4 pedal travel (which seems normal) and now it's at 1/4 travel. That doesn't sound good and I believe I've seen other posts regarding the pressure-plate bolts backing themselves out which had similar symptoms.

 

thanks for hitting that on the bullseye. that was my original concern, but not sure how to word it. as it seems my release point is getting shorter, is that because of the way i drive or is this normal?

thanks,

mark

 

I think mine engages about 1/2 to 2/3 of the way out. So 1/4 out and engaging may need adjustment. Talk to your local service technician.

 

see if this post sounds like your problem

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...late+AND+bolts

 

thanks nubo! that fits my description of the problem to a tee!

ill look into it at my dealer tom.

this group is invaluable! thanks for all your help

doc mark